2017 Errata - Dawn of Lucius ^^

[LunarSol]

3 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

I could never wrap my head around the coffin being swung around like a baseball bat, fluff be damned. To me the coffin is always tied to the death marshal's body by its carrying cradle and the marshal, if anything, hurls himself at the target for a body-slam and then the magic works upon contact. That explains the range in the fluff. But nonetheless, like everyone else, I can't internalize that this means Pine Box has a range of 1 (and the nurse's Syringe has a range of 2, that's the other counter-intuitive one: the dual-wielding nurse must have one hell of a reach).

I assume its like the vaulting poses.  They slam it down, leap over it, lid magically opens and they kick/wrestle/throw/whatever looks awesome the target into it before the lid slams shut.

[JDAntoine]

Model wise it should be rng 2, I cant act as if it shouldnt, not with that size, not with the way they are all acrobatic with it. Lore wise is probably should work out like that aswell.

Does it mean it needs to be changed instantly? Nope but if you make the Loco, Frank, Lucius and Scribe more logical, that added rng would have been a small and meaningful nod. 

[trikk]

16 hours ago, JDAntoine said:

Model wise it should be rng 2, I cant act as if it shouldnt, not with that size, not with the way they are all acrobatic with it. Lore wise is probably should work out like that aswell.

Does it mean it needs to be changed instantly? Nope but if you make the Loco, Frank, Lucius and Scribe more logical, that added rng would have been a small and meaningful nod. 

Modelwise a lot of models should be changed. For Example Guardians Ht2.

 

I find that the 2 inch range on pinebox wouldn`t make any difference in how often they are played. It would be a buff, but a pretty meaningless one in my opinion because the situations where the 1 extra inch is not a hiring dealbreaker

[koronuslight]

16 hours ago, LunarSol said:

I assume its like the vaulting poses.  They slam it down, leap over it, lid magically opens and they kick/wrestle/throw/whatever looks awesome the target into it before the lid slams shut.

Slamming it against the ground or walls definitely seems like it. Plant it open in the dirt, dropkick a zombie inside, then yank the chain to close it, magic lock clicks into place. Somewhere in the distance thunder sounds, but it always seems like it's closer...

[JDAntoine]

13 minutes ago, trikk said:

I find that the 2 inch range on pinebox wouldn`t make any difference in how often they are played. It would be a buff, but a pretty meaningless one in my opinion because the situations where the 1 extra inch is not a hiring dealbreaker

I don't agree with that for several reasons. The biggest one of that is that it's relatively easy to hide a key model from a Death Marshal if this is your intent. I certainly agree that the Pine Box is amazing on paper and that bury effects can be really good but the way the Pine Box works out now isn't anything too scary.

A 2" rng on the Pine Box would significantly help and thus improve my reasons to thake a Death Marshal.
I think the best part of it all is that Back in the Box from the Emissary is 3" aswell, making the 1" rng even less logical. 

[trikk]

8 minutes ago, JDAntoine said:

I don't agree with that for several reasons. The biggest one of that is that it's relatively easy to hide a key model from a Death Marshal if this is your intent. I certainly agree that the Pine Box is amazing on paper and that bury effects can be really good but the way the Pine Box works out now isn't anything too scary. A 2" rng would significantly help. 

I think if you know how to hide models from DMs you`ll do the same with if they`ll have the extra inch. 7" charge would probably make more sense as you can also poke from a longer range with the blade.

[koronuslight]

13 minutes ago, JDAntoine said:

I don't agree with that for several reasons. The biggest one of that is that it's relatively easy to hide a key model from a Death Marshal if this is your intent. I certainly agree that the Pine Box is amazing on paper and that bury effects can be really good but the way the Pine Box works out now isn't anything too scary.

A 2" rng on the Pine Box would significantly help and thus improve my reasons to thake a Death Marshal.
I think the best part of it all is that Back in the Box from the Emissary is 3" aswell, making the 1" rng even less logical. 

So Hard to Wound, Unimpeded, Finish the Job, a rather decent Sh attack, and a themed upgrade to give them Relentless isn't enough for you? The Pine Box is literally the only reason you won't take them?

[JDAntoine]

31 minutes ago, koronuslight said:

So Hard to Wound, Unimpeded, Finish the Job, a rather decent Sh attack, and a themed upgrade to give them Relentless isn't enough for you? The Pine Box is literally the only reason you won't take them?

The Pine Box is the litteral reason I thake them.

[koronuslight]

That's your call, bro. 

[Gnomezilla]

36 minutes ago, koronuslight said:

That's your call, bro. 

I agree with @JDAntoine. All their other traits are reasons to choose them over other options in that points bracket or general crew role; the pine box is the reason to hire a death marshal specifically.

I don't agree with range 2 being the death marshal's fix. I'd rather the cast stat got a themed upgrade boost, maybe linked to a Guild Marshal carrier. Write it like Carlos Vasquez's upgrade where its cost drops to 0 under the specific hiring conditions--in this case, make it 0ss for the Judge to carry the upgrade--and have it boost Ca values of guild marshals by one, and remove the pistol symbol from the Judge's whatchamacallit. He becomes Justice's right hand again as he should be, his abilities become more in line with his cost, non-thematic crews choose to pay a soulstone tax if they would prefer a different marshal but still get the boost. And that wording on the variable cost opens up a world of boosting specific models back into their thematic masters' crews, for all factions. And because it's a faction coded upgrade, it won't cause grief in cross-faction hiring as so very many things do now.

[trikk]

I like the idea for an upgrade for Judge that would make him and DMs better. I agree that the 2" range on Pinebox will not change hiring preferences.

[koronuslight]

Making Pine Box a Ca 6 is the only fix it needs. Since stat 6 is the new baseline for resists now. 

[trikk]

I think with Ca6 could make them a bit over the curve as they have pretty good chances of boxing Wp7 models and very good chances of boxing Wp6 models.

 

Also the 6 is not really the new baseline. its just that Shifting Loyalties and Ripples of Fate had a small amount of cheap units compared to the base book and Crossroads.

 

I`d increase the Blade Ml to 6 and Cg to 7 maybe. 

[koronuslight]

5 minutes ago, trikk said:

I think with Ca6 could make them a bit over the curve as they have pretty good chances of boxing Wp7 models and very good chances of boxing Wp6 models.

 

Also the 6 is not really the new baseline. its just that Shifting Loyalties and Ripples of Fate had a small amount of cheap units compared to the base book and Crossroads.

 

I`d increase the Blade Ml to 6 and Cg to 7 maybe. 

Blade to Ml 6 would be good since it has the lower damage track. 

What if instead of Ca 6, the Guild Marshal upgrade gave  to Ca actions while within LoS? That would be a more balanced solution to the Pine Box issue. 

[trikk]

The upgrade would be nice too. Judge would have higher chances for the Unrelenting Leader actions (man, why Justice doesn`t have this upgrade, she`s the Unrelenting Leader!) and Bound by Law. You could also use Stand For Judgement on models in cover

[Gnomezilla]

2 minutes ago, koronuslight said:

Blade to Ml 6 would be good since it has the lower damage track. 

What if instead of Ca 6, the Guild Marshal upgrade gave  to Ca actions while within LoS? That would be a more balanced solution to the Pine Box issue. 

Yeah, forget what I said about an additive bonus, this is much better. 

 

[4thstringer]

So I was thinking about the guardians at 7. At this point I'm thinking they are competitive with illuminated.   The big differences are that guardians might be tougher,  But their healing isn't as good.   No flay hurts, but even being in that realm is tempting. 

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

So I was thinking about the guardians at 7. At this point I'm thinking they are competitive with illuminated.   The big differences are that guardians might be tougher,  But their healing isn't as good.   No flay hurts, but even being in that realm is tempting. 

With the ability to fairly realiably give them a focused attack from Lucius as well as being able to push them out of lesser melee ranges to keep things i the sucky "engaged but not able to attack" position I am looking forward to using them a lot more. 

A ml 7 attack with a + flip that can ignore armor isn't too shabby either, theyare now competibg with Francisco in my eyes 

[Tris]

Guardians are golden now for 7 if you are in need of a durable model to hold an area - df 6, 8wds, arm +1 (possible +3 with trigger), double defensive with possible self heal, 3" engagement range and a knockback on the 2" ml - the new min 2 damage makes them just a good allrounder  

 

And all that even before you take our different masters into account to push their perfomance even more

[4thstringer]

I think I wrote elsewhere how much I like def 2 with grind to a halt.   So easy to get the tome. 

[Qracy]

Hi everyone,

I just have a question to commanding presence, searched the topic but have not found an answer:

If I walk with Lucius, target himself with commanding presence and pass the horror test, may I walk again with the (1) Action?

And does commanding presence then trigger again? If so, as long as I pass the horror duels, I could walk as often as I want?

That cannot be correct, so where is the error in that?

Thanks for your help...

[trikk]

After you pass a Horror Duel you are immune to Horror duels from that model until the end of turn. You can walk. Target yourself with Commanding Presence. Pass Horror. Walk again but you're immune to horror duels so you can't target yourself again but you can target different models. I do think that the lack of "other" model is probably a typo and hopefully will be fixed

[Ludvig]

Yeah, that can't have been intended.

[Cadaverousbirth]

If you go by the theory that Lucius is the mask and not the person, it makes sense that he could scare "himself" 

[JDAntoine]

Hey  hey hey that Lucius needed to become really good we said