Voodoo Doll Vs. Old Cranky

[WyrdMatt]

What the title says. I am starting Zoraida but I was wondering if I should stick with the Voodoo Doll or go with the very popular Old Cranky.

Also, does it have something to do with what other models you bring like Iggy with Voodoo Doll or Sammy with Cranky?

Cheers,

Matt

[Dogmantra]

Hm, I play a fair amount of Zoraida, and Old Cranky is one of my favourite models. I think the doll has a lot of opportunity for shenanigans, particularly with a Nurse, which imo should be in nearly every Zoraida crew, and generally I hire neither and then summon the doll. I've had a couple of recent games that have made me reconsider, where the doll never got to come into play because Zoraida was too AP starved to spend 2 summoning it, but that was partly because of my fault picking upgrades & deploying incredibly badly in one of the games.

You can of course always summon the doll if Old Cranky dies, but I do feel like the doll really wants to get out early for max effectiveness.

It does totally have to do with what models you bring. If you've got Sammy or a Nurse (or both), you can effectively paralyse or pseudo-paralyse the hem target very consistently, which can be a total godsend versus scary big models, and they don't have to have too low Wp given hem is on a Ca7.

I guess it depends really on why you're bringing Zoraida. If you're bringing her for access to a Nurse and to hand AP out to your beaters, then you could probably bring Old Cranky. If you're going for control and looking to Obey and shut down enemy models, the Doll is really your go to for that.

the doll brings some nice shenanigans though:

• slap it around a bit, then have a nurse use take your meds for a crow - full heal the doll and paralyse the hem target
• in a pinch, hem your own model, they won't take damage or conditions when the doll does, but you can push them around with zoraida's AP
• use a lightning bug to attack it, get a mask and trigger the healing pulse so you heal all your friends and deal damage to the hem target
• sammy can give it the "horror duel when you activate" condition, and you can deliberately fail it on the doll to paralyse the hem target (note: make sure the doll is away from friendlies who could fail their horror duels)
• hem a scheme runner, then have lenny toss the doll to give the scheme runner insignificant for the turn (bonus points if you toss the doll into an enemy model and make them take damage)
• mancha roja can also paralyse the doll (or paralyse it with someone else), then hit the hem target for a much better chance at an instant kill.

[Blacks85]

I've never played cranky or zoraida yet...but I wouldn't probably hire a totem when I can summon another that is -at least - somehow useful.

This would remove some opportunities in game and force you don't use some of them.

Of course, as Dogmantra pointed out, you need to have some "conditions-applier" in the team to have some benefits, the pure dmg. isn't a necessary condition to summon doll in my unexperienced opinion

[WyrdMatt]

Thanks guys.looks like the Voodoo doll is the choice most of the time.

[Clement]

Other funny doll tricks I've found:

1) The Voodoo Doll makes a fantastic slippery buddy for Burt.

2) Merris can pile a truly staggering amount of burning on the doll (9 by herself) with no resist or TN to worry about.  (go even higher if Zoraida throws an obey in there, but 9 feels like a lot)

3) It's fun to engage things with the voodoo doll.  They don't want to hit it, but they might not be able to get away.

4) Walking the voodoo doll off of buildings, into hazardous terrain, into terrifying models, really all over.

[Dogmantra]

2 minutes ago, Clement said:

2) Merris can pile a truly staggering amount of burning on the doll (9 by herself) with no resist or TN to worry about.  (go even higher if Zoraida throws an obey in there, but 9 feels like a lot)

Ooh, yeah that's pretty nasty. I didn't consider that before. I guess an even nastier trick is to do this before the doll activates, then switch the Hem target for 9 burning damage to the initial target and then 6 to the new target when the Doll takes its burning damage.

[daniello_s]

20 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Ooh, yeah that's pretty nasty. I didn't consider that before. I guess an even nastier trick is to do this before the doll activates, then switch the Hem target for 9 burning damage to the initial target and then 6 to the new target when the Doll takes its burning damage.

Man, that's dirty... I love this trick a lot

[Phinn]

32 minutes ago, Clement said:

2) Merris can pile a truly staggering amount of burning on the doll (9 by herself) with no resist or TN to worry about.  (go even higher if Zoraida throws an obey in there, but 9 feels like a lot)

Unfortunately she can't. The Flaming Bottle Attack Action reads: "Target enemy model gains the Burning +3 Condition. This Attack ignores cover."

[Blacks85]

12 hours ago, Phinn said:

Unfortunately she can't. The Flaming Bottle Attack Action reads: "Target enemy model gains the Burning +3 Condition. This Attack ignores cover."

That's very sad...

The Dogmantra trick would have been very lovely....

[feagaur]

One thing to remember is that the doll can be a con in certain strats and schemes. Killing off things is good but as it kills things with a condition it doesn't count as having killed it. Also, I find that whatever its trying to kill is generally away from the doll so you may not be able to pick up any heads. In strats and schemes like that I'd take Old Cranky.

I think he works well with Zoraida and MacTavish.

[Dogmantra]

9 minutes ago, feagaur said:

Also, I find that whatever its trying to kill is generally away from the doll so you may not be able to pick up any heads.

In Headhunter it can actually be a blessing for exactly the reason it's not so great in Reckoning/Collect the Bounty. A kill from a condition doesn't count as a kill by your crew, so in Headhunter it means the model that died won't drop a head marker. It can be a decent way to take out models from range without giving up a head in the process. HH is already one of Zoraida's favourite strats too imo.

 

Although personally I don't really use the doll to kill models, I prefer to just spend Nurse and Sammy AP to keep a nasty target locked down.

[PositronMike]

One of the models that hasn't been mentioned with the doll is the Lucky Emissary he can make a model slow or a slow model paralyzed with a (1) action. As the doll comes in slow on the turn you summon it the Emissary can get a model paralyzed reasonably easily.

[Math Mathonwy]

3 hours ago, PositronMike said:

One of the models that hasn't been mentioned with the doll is the Lucky Emissary he can make a model slow or a slow model paralyzed with a (1) action. As the doll comes in slow on the turn you summon it the Emissary can get a model paralyzed reasonably easily.

That's very neat! Hadn't realized that. It's pretty nice since Zoraida seems like a prime candidate for using Lucky Emissary anyway since her Conflux is pretty rad and she usually isn't as concerned with the Gremlin synergy (which the Emissary lacks).

[Blacks85]

4 hours ago, PositronMike said:

One of the models that hasn't been mentioned with the doll is the Lucky Emissary he can make a model slow or a slow model paralyzed with a (1) action. As the doll comes in slow on the turn you summon it the Emissary can get a model paralyzed reasonably easily.

Yeah, that's amazing. Didn't think about too as well...

and quoting Math, Emissary upgrade with Zoraida is incredibly strong in my opinion.

That makes a good combo, thanks.

[Clement]

19 hours ago, Phinn said:

Unfortunately she can't. The Flaming Bottle Attack Action reads: "Target enemy model gains the Burning +3 Condition. This Attack ignores cover."

I got told that glorious thing at the last con I was at, pity.   At least  I found out before I subjected one of my locals to it.

[PositronMike]

18 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

That's very neat! Hadn't realized that. It's pretty nice since Zoraida seems like a prime candidate for using Lucky Emissary anyway since her Conflux is pretty rad and she usually isn't as concerned with the Gremlin synergy (which the Emissary lacks).

Yeah and if you have the doll out at the start of the turn the Emissary can use 2 AP to paralyze it and the hemmed model. Then if you kill the doll Zoraida can re-summon it it can hem another target and then Zoraida can obey the Emissary to paralyze the doll again (if I have the order right on when hem takes place). Which means 2 models paralyzed one of which is going to have taken some damage in a turn.

[Blacks85]

22 minutes ago, PositronMike said:

Yeah and if you have the doll out at the start of the turn the Emissary can use 2 AP to paralyze it and the hemmed model. Then if you kill the doll Zoraida can re-summon it it can hem another target and then Zoraida can obey the Emissary to paralyze the doll again (if I have the order right on when hem takes place). Which means 2 models paralyzed one of which is going to have taken some damage in a turn.

You have spent the whole activation of a 10 SS model and a master to do that, so in the best case you probably trade even in term of impacts into the game!

Worst case, you've lost the trade

 

[PositronMike]

2 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

You have spent the whole activation of a 10 SS model and a master to do that, so in the best case you probably trade even in term of impacts into the game!

Worst case, you've lost the trade

 

This is absolutely true however there are occasions where this will be useful. I also tend to find Zoraida can run out of things to do in her activation later on in some games.

[Dogmantra]

idk if the Emissary using 2AP to paralyse the Doll is more appealing than a Nurse using any Crow and a (1) action to paralyse it, or having Sammy or a Nurse use one of their other many conditions to psueodo paralyse it.

[Blacks85]

1 hour ago, Dogmantra said:

idk if the Emissary using 2AP to paralyse the Doll is more appealing than a Nurse using any Crow and a (1) action to paralyse it, or having Sammy or a Nurse use one of their other many conditions to psueodo paralyse it.

It surely better the nurse. However, Paralyzing for 1 AP the just summoned doll could be a good option imo.