Jacking it hard

[MR TORGUE]

Really feeling Jack Daw as being my next main master and was just wondering what areas of focus Jack can present. 
After pouring over his rules and that of other tormented I see the he has the utility to go for a terror build, movement and repositioning focus or possibly a denial type of play - I was really wondering a few things...

- Is it wise to take all three of his curses, leaving only 2 slots for his other upgrades?
- what seems to be the best approach to using jack; or what would you consider a beginner approach to Jacking it with opponents.
- The C7, Nurses and Drowned seem obvious but what Tormented would be best for jack to pull from other factions?

Any feedback would be welcome  
 

[Bodiless]

39 minutes ago, MR TORGUE said:

Really feeling Jack Daw as being my next main master and was just wondering what areas of focus Jack can present. 
After pouring over his rules and that of other tormented I see the he has the utility to go for a terror build, movement and repositioning focus or possibly a denial type of play - I was really wondering a few things...

- Is it wise to take all three of his curses, leaving only 2 slots for his other upgrades?
- what seems to be the best approach to using jack; or what would you consider a beginner approach to Jacking it with opponents.
- The C7, Nurses and Drowned seem obvious but what Tormented would be best for jack to pull from other factions?

Any feedback would be welcome  
 

Let's see... for models Envy, Lust, Jaakuna if you have a model for her. Other CR 7 situationally depending on the scheme pool. 

I always take all three curses. Depending on the board I will either spread them around to maximize the disruption/damage/resource drain or use them to really cripple a key model like a master

I always take Writhing Torment to get the free pushes. Free 3" push is amazing. Especially if you have models that want to shoot.

[daniello_s]

33 minutes ago, MR TORGUE said:

- Is it wise to take all three of his curses, leaving only 2 slots for his other upgrades?
- what seems to be the best approach to using jack; or what would you consider a beginner approach to Jacking it with opponents.
- The C7, Nurses and Drowned seem obvious but what Tormented would be best for jack to pull from other factions?

1. I regularly play him with Twist and Turn, Writhing Torment and 3x Curses and I rarely miss any other upgrades. I was thinking about taking 2 Curses only and get him Oathkeeper/Survivalist/Creeping Terror but never done it so still few tests to be done ahead of me

For a start i would recommend 'the standard' set so you can familiarize yourself with mobility shenanigans and learn how to effectively use each Curse.

2. Rule number one - do not overextend Jack. Use him as a centre piece of the loose bubble an make sure your Tormented models are within 6'' of him when activating to get free push. Remember that in some extreme cases Jack can be fantastic scheme runner - he can easily disengage from opponent (unless opponent has a  flip on attack built in or is Master/Henchman so he can burn soulstone for that). When it comes to fight try to focus Jack and one of your beaters on the biggest threat - stick Firing Injustice on it and follow up with your beater.

3. Hanged might be interesting option although he is quite pricey. Jack can borrow his Whispers from beyond as his attack. I heard Crooked Man can be interesting but never used them before. Papa Loco is a bit tricky to use and can be deadly in equal measure to the opponent as to your crew. Jaakuna is interesting option - I used her quite few times and I was always happy to have her support.

Remember that Guilty can Torment your 'normal' model and Jack can borrow his action to do same on other model - this way you will get two Tormented models till the end of the game. Any regular Outcast beat-stick becomes a real monster once Tormented and used with Jack's shenanigans.

[valhallan42nd]

Papa Loco and a Tormented Lazarus are great anti-horde tech, as straight flips for damage and blasts is just fun.

[Jordon]

Jack has a ton of really interesting combo's, which makes him a very deep and fun master to play. I usually bring all three curses, but I switch between his other upgrades depending on what theme I'm sticking with in my crew construction. 

Popa Loco combo's extremely well with Montressor and Envy since they both have extremely high moderate damage. It's one of the only ways I tend to get any milage from Montressor actually. 

The crooked men combo amazingly with gluttony since his Rhyme attack pushes models into scheme markers and crooked men use their "shafted" ability to serve up some potentially very high damage. The best part is that it's non-resistible as long as you have gluttony's condition. 

The Hanged plays well with Montressor who can debuff WP and can cause damage from passing horror duels, which the hanged can do multiple times a turn.

There is just so many ways to go with Daw, whether it's building a list to strip cards from my opponent. A terror build to shut down models or drain resources. A heavy scheme list  with all the ways Jack can drop scheme markers, the C7 for something thematic. Sprinkle in all the little combo's that jack can hire and you really have a lot of variety from one master. 

Also as a side note, you don't hear many people mention the emissary, but truthfully I think he's a very strong pick for jack and gives you another really good curse. 

[Jafar]

Another combos,

Throw any curse on enemy model, use Twist and Turn on that model, attack something that requires horror duel, paralyze enemy model

Another version of this trick:

Take bishop to your crew, throw curse on enemy model (Firing squad is the best for this), use Twist and Turn, attack bishop with ML and fail, bishop will hit enemy model back, moreover you have 2 additional damage from curse

 

[daniello_s]

Question: is Envy really good with his Sh5? I know he has  to attack and possible way to get nice blasts but sometimes (or even quite often) to hit something with this average shooting is not easy...

[admiralvorkraft]

Envy's Sh 6 if they are close to a scheme marker, and has access to an expensive (0) focus. Jack Daw can get a lot of markers down pretty easily, and (0) order Envy to focus out of turn for two focused shots at Sh 6 with built in positives to the attack and built in trigger for blasts. Or Papa can give Envy positives to damage and then hide in the Void.

At least that's the theory.

[daniello_s]

51 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Envy's Sh 6 if they are close to a scheme marker, and has access to an expensive (0) focus. Jack Daw can get a lot of markers down pretty easily, and (0) order Envy to focus out of turn for two focused shots at Sh 6 with built in positives to the attack and built in trigger for blasts. Or Papa can give Envy positives to damage and then hide in the Void.

At least that's the theory.

Ok, I'm sold to this model

 

[Jafar]

1 hour ago, daniello_s said:

Question: is Envy really good with his Sh5? I know he has  to attack and possible way to get nice blasts but sometimes (or even quite often) to hit something with this average shooting is not easy...

I use Sue (mostly in Levi crews), he also has Sh5 and . I find him quite good ion shhoting department. He can hit model behind cover or model with Df5. There is only one simple rule, you don't target models with high Df or models with some nasty triggers who can shoot back (for example Perdita).

So I think that Sh5 is not bad, also as Admiralvorkraft said, you can brinh it to Sh6. Regarding focus from jack 0AP in worst case you also need card to cheat, so sometimes Envy 0AP action can be better. 

[Bodiless]

19 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Envy's Sh 6 if they are close to a scheme marker, and has access to an expensive (0) focus. Jack Daw can get a lot of markers down pretty easily, and (0) order Envy to focus out of turn for two focused shots at Sh 6 with built in positives to the attack and built in trigger for blasts. Or Papa can give Envy positives to damage and then hide in the Void.

At least that's the theory.

Envy also has a 2/5/6 damage track. You really want him taking focused shots so you can get into those moderate and severe hits. 

[Viagrus]

On 5/27/2016 at 11:11 AM, Jafar said:

Another version of this trick:

Take bishop to your crew, throw curse on enemy model (Firing squad is the best for this), use Twist and Turn, attack bishop with ML and fail, bishop will hit enemy model back, moreover you have 2 additional damage from curse

 

Keep in mind that Bishop's Df/Wp trigger is not an Attack Action, so it won't benefit from the +1 dmg from Firing Squad Injustice (the 2 damage from making an attack action while having FSI still happens). Don't forget that you can cheat the damage flip on Bishop's Df/Wp trigger. 

[Jafar]

On 6/13/2016 at 6:01 AM, Viagrus said:

Keep in mind that Bishop's Df/Wp trigger is not an Attack Action, so it won't benefit from the +1 dmg from Firing Squad Injustice (the 2 damage from making an attack action while having FSI still happens). Don't forget that you can cheat the damage flip on Bishop's Df/Wp trigger. 

I am aware of that. But thanks for pointing that out.


Another mean trick:

- When you have Jack Daw on low wounds,  say 2 Wd. Activate him, use his 3 AP, and with his 0 AP action "obey" nurse to fully heal jack and give him paralyze. You don't paralyze him for next round, only his activation must be ended (and because he already used his 3 AP, it doesn't matter for you)

[Blacks85]

8 minutes ago, Jafar said:

I am aware of that. But thanks for pointing that out.


Another mean trick:

- When you have Jack Daw on low wounds,  say 2 Wd. Activate him, use his 3 AP, and with his 0 AP action "obey" nurse to fully heal jack and give him paralyze. You don't paralyze him for next round, only his activation must be ended (and because he already used his 3 AP, it doesn't matter for you)

That doesn't work.

The jack daw obeys on tormented CAN NOT declare triggers

[daniello_s]

25 minutes ago, Blacks85 said:

That doesn't work.

The jack daw obeys on tormented CAN NOT declare triggers

Sadly this is true

[Jafar]

33 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Sadly this is true

awwww my mistake so another lesson learned

[Freman]

Sadly it's a Zoraida thing.

[Franchute]

Hello,

Has anyone tried the combo Lazarus + Papa Loco in a Jack crew? What do you think about it? How would you complement the crew?

[Jafar]

55 minutes ago, Franchute said:

Hello,

Has anyone tried the combo Lazarus + Papa Loco in a Jack crew? What do you think about it? How would you complement the crew?

Lazarus + Papa = 17 ss. If mostly all your schemes are around killing, it may be a good idea. Otherwise in small games you may lack some scheme runners etc.
Also Papa is very easy to kill, so you will need to hide him, and in JD crew you don't have access to Death Marshall.

I don't know how your terrain looks, but in some cases this combo may win you game.

EDIT: once I saw when JD pushed, used his version of obey etc. so Papa ended turn 1 in middle of enemy crew. But I never used that 

[Franchute]

7 hours ago, Jafar said:

JD crew you don't have access to Death Marshall.
 

I've just had a look at the book. A possibility seems to be using a Void Wretch. This is also a good scheme runner. But you need a  and then you need to lose a Wp duel to bury him. On the other hand, the good news is that if you manage to kill somebody with say Lazarus, then Papa Loco will unbury in base contact with the killed model. OK, the opposite may happen too, but it would be fun to try anyway.

[MR TORGUE]

On 15/06/2016 at 7:50 AM, Blacks85 said:

That doesn't work.

The jack daw obeys on tormented CAN NOT declare triggers

Or you could just have the nurse use her meds on him normally and if you've taken the push upgrade he can't be paralysed by friendly models... 

[Blacks85]

11 minutes ago, MR TORGUE said:

Or you could just have the nurse use her meds on him normally and if you've taken the push upgrade he can't be paralysed by friendly models... 

That doesn't work either!

HE is immune to paralyze applied by ENEMY models

 

[MR TORGUE]

38 minutes ago, Blacks85 said:

That doesn't work either!

HE is immune to paralyze applied by ENEMY models

 

Awwww maaaaan! no heals for Jack....

[daniello_s]

Nurse heals him, Johan (or Hannah using Johan's action) removes Paralyzed condition

[valhallan42nd]

If you're worried about heals, just take the Librarian. The Nurse in Daw is more about buffs/debuffs in my experience.