CannibalBob Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 This seems like a cool idea for tournament rewards - if that is indeed how these are given out. I was about to convert the metal Hamelin avatar model to use as a stand-in for the actual Hamelin, but he has some fiddly parts since he is spindly and metal. I would rather have that sculpt in plastic. The same thing goes for Misaki. I love the original Misaki model, but it is fragile and bendable beyond belief. A recast in plastic is something I will definitely try to obtain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpobjects Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 28 minutes ago, SpiralngCadavr said: Yeah... that's kind of the problem with event support- in encouraging people to go to events, you're excluding those who don't have the time. If something is going on in the world that you cannot attend for various reasons you are not being excluded. You not having the time to attend something is what excludes you. You not having transportation or a game store near you, etc is not the events fault, Wyrd's or anyone else for that matter. If the event organizer told you that you are not allowed to attend the event THEN you have been excluded. You are more than welcome to make the time or over come whatever the obstacles that are keeping you from attending. If real life is just too busy for you then it is your life and the way its structured for you that excludes you. In my area people drive 2-3 hours to attend events. They car pool, they also take multiple buses and trains to be at the event. They have wives/husbands and children and work, etc. They do the best they can to make the time in their busy real lives to show up and support the events. Supporting the events helps Wyrd, the Game Store and the Malifaux community as a whole. Sometimes even the players who regularly support the events cant make them and thats ok too. I don't feel its too much to have a few "special" models available for those who make the effort to take 10-12 hours (travel time and 7 to 8 hours for a 3 round event) out of their weekend to support an event. For those that can never attend an event for the forseeable future you can always try to trade for the models or buy them outright from the players who have them. Even if its at a higher cost, you didnt spend 10-12 hours on a weekend to try and obtain that "special" model. Or spending maybe 50-60 hours over the course of many weekends amassing the Guilder poker chips needed to redeem to get the model they want if they were not lucky enough to get it from a mystery box. My Malifaux community is very excited about the Guilder poker chips and the possibility to work towards getting something exclusive. If Wyrd does something else or makes it less exclusive then that's their decision and is fine as well. I am really excited about the Pandora sculpt! Whether I ever get it for myself or not I would never begrudge someone else who got a hold of it by whatever means; won it, earned it, bought it, etc. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 39 minutes ago, DXXXVIII said: Point 1.: At first, the models DO look great. Kudos to wyrd. I also realise to how much lenght they go to support the community. WHICH IS A GOOD THING! They made these models to support the community. There aren't a lot of companies that do care about the community to such an extend. Point 2.: I'm sad at the same time. But its a subjective sadness not one of the objective mind. I can understand that "limited availability" is some kind of a status symbol to show off your dedication. And that a plastic-peen is of course a great way to encourage the communitry. (Its part the envy speaking out of me ;P ) But I as a subjective casual gamer will be very sad to never be able to sleep with such a nice Hamelin model under my pillow nor being able to hord enough of these tokens at the area im livin in. I agree with your point two. And to an extent with point one. I am glad wyrd support gaming communities but remember they are a business at the end if the day. They need the communities to survive to buy their product. It's a lot better approach in general than, say, GW, but the way some people on here (not you) make them out as untouchable beings because of their community support disturbs me. They make it sound like wyrd are doing this solely for them and gamers. Don't get me wrong, a company investing time and energy into communities is worth lauding, but at the end of the day communities pay their wages and the bottom line is profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koronuslight Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Right now my community is myself and one other person. Shame I can't be a Henchman out of my gaming room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 9 minutes ago, sharpobjects said: If something is going on in the world that you cannot attend for various reasons you are not being excluded. You not having the time to attend something is what excludes you. You not having transportation or a game store near you, etc is not the events fault, Wyrd's or anyone else for that matter. If the event organizer told you that you are not allowed to attend the event THEN you have been excluded. You are more than welcome to make the time or over come whatever the obstacles that are keeping you from attending. If real life is just too busy for you then it is your life and the way its structured for you that excludes you. In my area people drive 2-3 hours to attend events. They car pool, they also take multiple buses and trains to be at the event. They have wives/husbands and children and work, etc. They do the best they can to make the time in their busy real lives to show up and support the events. Supporting the events helps Wyrd, the Game Store and the Malifaux community as a whole. Sometimes even the players who regularly support the events cant make them and thats ok too. I don't feel its too much to have a few "special" models available for those who make the effort to take 10-12 hours (travel time and 7 to 8 hours for a 3 round event) out of their weekend to support an event. For those that can never attend an event for the forseeable future you can always try to trade for the models or buy them outright from the players who have them. Even if its at a higher cost, you didnt spend 10-12 hours on a weekend to try and obtain that "special" model. Or spending maybe 50-60 hours over the course of many weekends amassing the Guilder poker chips needed to redeem to get the model they want if they were not lucky enough to get it from a mystery box. My Malifaux community is very excited about the Guilder poker chips and the possibility to work towards getting something exclusive. If Wyrd does something else or makes it less exclusive then that's their decision and is fine as well. I am really excited about the Pandora sculpt! Whether I ever get it for myself or not I would never begrudge someone else who got a hold of it by whatever means; won it, earned it, bought it, etc. I disagree with so much in this post that it riled me. So much that I don't think I can answer it at this moment without it turning into a personal attack. Needless to say I feel I obviously have to apologise for having real life commitments that I didn't realise could so simply be overcome by rearranging said life! How silly of me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanYaDigIT Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 None of us feel that your real life commitments should fall to the wayside and be replaced with events. Everyone is saying how nice it would be to have something that you can only get if you do events. It would boost event participation. Sometimes life gets in the way and you cant do the events. Wyrd, nor the store or the organizer, are excluding you. They just cant include you because of your life. There will be means of you getting the item even if you cant directly purchase it from wyrd. It just might include the cost of the time that the people who did get it put into the events. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armour Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Its really cool that Wyrd is re-releasing old favourite sculpts, even in this limited way. However, I'm just reminded how much I like the newer designs, especially every female character. The bust sizes on the old masters were ridiculous. I like brooding powerful Raspy way better than flaunting Raspy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrflamme Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I think another aspect to be considered is that it isn't like those of us with more ready access to leagues and tournaments don't sympathize. In my own case, there's a couple of LE models that I've missed out on over the years. TtB Hannah is one of them, I was actually supporting Kickstarters at that time, but I wasn't invested enough in Malifaux then to want to get TtB books even on a fluff basis. Whenever a contest with one of them as a prize comes around, I always get a little excited and hopeful. The retail model looks pretty good to me but I can appreciate the coolness of the TtB variant. While I've only given consideration to playing Khador in WMH, I really like the Vlad1 alt sculpt they did as a fundraiser for...I can't remember, maybe it was Hurricane Katrina? It looks so much cooler than the regular sculpt to me, but I'd be surprised if I can get it without paying a king's ransom on Ebay. In more recent examples, I split a Black Friday order with others and only got the Francisco alt sculpt, though all three of the rest appealed to me. I'm hoping that those other three go on sale individually at some point, like many LEs did during last Black Friday, but man would I like to have alt Firestarter for when I swing back into Arcanists with my Kaeris box later, or female McMourning for mucking about with him without investing in the McMourning box. I guess my point is that I've had and missed, or just missed opportunities for some cool sculpts, but I don't consider it a personal slight against me or my circumstances related to time or money. Sometimes businesses just find it appropriate to do time or context-limited releases to drive business and it ends up being a net positive. Wizards of the Coast is a good example in that they do promo cards for set releases, and it's functionally no different from the regular ones except they might be shinier. Que sera, sera. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrella Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I'm suprised to see so much outrage over this, especially since these are optional alt sculpts and not really content that's being "gatekept". Not to mention that I find trying to participate in events a lot easier to stomach then spending lots of money in one go for Black Friday sales. (Not that I really have an issue with that either, it's just something I'm way less likely to do.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said: Wyrd has yet to release anything in plastic that hasn't been directly purchasable after a time. Incorrect, kickstarter Hannah has never been for sale and it's one of the earlier limited edition plastics. 51 minutes ago, sharpobjects said: I don't feel its too much to have a few "special" models available for those who make the effort to take 10-12 hours (travel time and 7 to 8 hours for a 3 round event) out of their weekend to support an event. Yeah no, try 8+ hours of just travel time, meaning you'd have to find accommodations as you'd have get there the day before (and probably stay until the day after the event). --- I've never met anyone who went to gaming events because of this level of prices* so I think this will have absolutely zero impact on attendance. People who like and can go to tournaments will do so regardless. *) Substantial cash prices like on the Magic pro tour is another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhallan42nd Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Nexus said: Wait... is that even a thing? I thought it was one Henchman per store? If we can have multiple per store, I'd gladly join up to add more events to the pool. We have about a dozen active players in our store. Yes! It works out pretty well. I'm kind of a floating pinch-henchman. If a hench needs to have an event run at their store, but it's tired/can't run it/etc, I step in to run the event. It works great, as they can actually get to play every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowdragon Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 A couple of these look really nice, much better than current plastic versions (Sommer I'm looking at you). Too bad I wont ever be able to get any of these. I'm strongly opposed to this whole exclusive miniatures thing. It promotes scalping and elitism and the whole thing makes me physically sick to my stomach. I know it's doing well for Wyrd, and I'm glad it's helping them grow and prosper, I just don't like how it's becoming such a huge part of their business model. Things like this should be general release alternate sculpts, not exclusives that'll just end up in the hands of scalpers selling them for $50-60 a pop on ebay. I really, REALLY hope Wyrd reins back on the exclusive minis sometime soon. Never have I seen a minis company produce so many exclusive minis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chryspainthemum Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Very cool, excited to see what I can do to get my hands on that Pandora. As for the complaints about it being exclusive... if you have other priorities in your life, that's your choice and you can't expect Wyrd to cater to it? I mean, if I can't afford to buy models because I can't hold down a job, should Wyrd mail me free miniatures with which to play??? Seems backwards to blame a company producing a luxury good because you can't afford the money/time for that specific product... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Loki- Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Love the minis. So glad they did avatar Pandora on a smaller base. Looks much better, less unweildy, and useable in regular games. Utterly fantastic. So'mer too. I loved that model and art, and was disappointed when the plastic model was so different. I'll have to get both models. Unfortunately, by that I mean find them as trades. I strongly dislike tournaments (nothing against people who do or this game, just personal preference. I've attended two, and only enjoyed one). Which means my options for getting them are to find them being traded somewhere. Not that it bothers me - I paid $100au for Santana. I'd just rather give the money to Wyrd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, chryspainthemum said: Very cool, excited to see what I can do to get my hands on that Pandora. As for the complaints about it being exclusive... if you have other priorities in your life, that's your choice and you can't expect Wyrd to cater to it? I mean, if I can't afford to buy models because I can't hold down a job, should Wyrd mail me free miniatures with which to play??? Seems backwards to blame a company producing a luxury good because you can't afford the money/time for that specific product... Ah, so the guy chose to have a wife that needs constant medical attention? Or the guy who is a single parent chose that? So those priorities are our choices? Hmmm I know wyrd are not responsible for us not being able to or want to attend tournaments etc, I'm not that naive. But the apparent move to alienate casual gamers is what concerns us more. I'm hopeful that is not what wyrd are trying to do, but it sometimes feels that way. I may be a casual gamer but that doesn't mean I don't buy product. Or want to buy product. I'm lucky to have a decent disposable income that goes on hobby product. I may be inclined to send it wyrds way on these sort of exclusives. But I don't want to buy models I don't need to get them, and will not feed the eBay scalpers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhallan42nd Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 9 minutes ago, -Loki- said: Love the minis. So glad they did avatar Pandora on a smaller base. Looks much better, less unweildy, and useable in regular games. Utterly fantastic. So'mer too. I loved that model and art, and was disappointed when the plastic model was so different. I'll have to get both models. Unfortunately, by that I mean find them as trades. I strongly dislike tournaments (nothing against people who do or this game, just personal preference. I've attended two, and only enjoyed one). Which means my options for getting them are to find them being traded somewhere. Not that it bothers me - I paid $100au for Santana. I'd just rather give the money to Wyrd. Hey, tournaments are not the only way! Leagues, campaigns, painting contests, etc! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chryspainthemum Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 10 minutes ago, Absolution Black said: Ah, so the guy chose to have a wife that needs constant medical attention? Or the guy who is a single parent chose that? So those priorities are our choices? Hmmm I know wyrd are not responsible for us not being able to or want to attend tournaments etc, I'm not that naive. But the apparent move to alienate casual gamers is what concerns us more. I'm hopeful that is not what wyrd are trying to do, but it sometimes feels that way. I may be a casual gamer but that doesn't mean I don't buy product. Or want to buy product. I'm lucky to have a decent disposable income that goes on hobby product. I may be inclined to send it wyrds way on these sort of exclusives. But I don't want to buy models I don't need to get them, and will not feed the eBay scalpers. 1. If your wife needs constant medical attention or your kids are keeping you busy, then yes, that is the result of a choice that you made. But, putting aside the pedantry, I don't see the situation in which a man, busy with having to tend to his ailing wife, would be concerned about not having easy access to a luxury good. So maybe lets not throw out the ridiculous emotional appeals. 2. I don't see how this alienates anyone. This is not a must-buy. By your logic, any business that asks for money for product alienates people who don't have disposable income??? 3. You admit yourself you have a means of getting the product (third party), but choose not to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 33 minutes ago, Shadowdragon said: A couple of these look really nice, much better than current plastic versions (Sommer I'm looking at you). Too bad I wont ever be able to get any of these. I'm strongly opposed to this whole exclusive miniatures thing. It promotes scalping and elitism and the whole thing makes me physically sick to my stomach. I know it's doing well for Wyrd, and I'm glad it's helping them grow and prosper, I just don't like how it's becoming such a huge part of their business model. Things like this should be general release alternate sculpts, not exclusives that'll just end up in the hands of scalpers selling them for $50-60 a pop on ebay. I really, REALLY hope Wyrd reins back on the exclusive minis sometime soon. Never have I seen a minis company produce so many exclusive minis. My thoughts as well. Gaming communities are rife with people who deal with the stigma that comes with "being a gamer". It wasn't until more recent years that people have been able to break that mold and stereotype, and bring a more positive view to the community, but even then, it's still very hard for a lot of communities. Promoting elitism amongst a group of people who have already faced numerous issues with "fitting in" doesn't help the community any. 2 minutes ago, chryspainthemum said: If your wife needs constant medical attention or your kids are keeping you busy, then yes, that is the result of a choice that you made. But, putting aside the pedantry, I don't see the situation in which a man, busy with having to tend to his ailing wife, would be concerned about not having easy access to a luxury good. So maybe lets not throw out the ridiculous emotional appeals. I wouldn't expect a person not in any of those situations to understand, nor would I ask for sympathy or pity. But understand that by accepting this practice of "exclusion", it's only perpetuating more of a segregation amongst a small community, irregardless if they're "must-buy" items or not. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Loki- Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, valhallan42nd said: Hey, tournaments are not the only way! Leagues, campaigns, painting contests, etc! Leagues are few and far between here (I've only played one but it was fun), painting competitions and campaigns non existent. Stuff like this is great when you have a varied, active community with a henchman that supports it properly. Those kinds of communities aren't common around here. Even if they were, I can't commit to playing every week due to having a fiancée who likes to do things on the weekend (I missed the last week of the campaign because we were rescuing a dog). So while I enjoy leagues, I don't get as much out of them as others. So I fall back to trades to get these models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDeathTrout Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Wyrd has decided to support their community with the henchman program and prize kits. I'm sure the free models, guilders, alt stat cards were not cheap. I'm sure it is a lot of time and effort to design and administer the henchman/prize kit program. I'm sure they did not go to all the effort to alienate anyone. I'm disappointed all this effort on their part has lead to so much negativity. I'm sure it is every disheartening to those that put so much effort into the program. To all those who put effort into this program I want you to know I appreciate it. Thank you. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhallan42nd Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, -Loki- said: Leagues are few and far between here (I've only played one but it was fun), painting competitions and campaigns non existent. Stuff like this is great when you have a varied, active community with a henchman that supports it properly. Those kinds of communities aren't common around here. Even if they were, I can't commit to playing every week due to having a fiancée who likes to do things on the weekend (I missed the last week of the campaign because we were rescuing a dog). So while I enjoy leagues, I don't get as much out of them as others. So I fall back to trades to get these models. That's rough*. Still, there's always jumping them in an alley another creative way of getting a model.** * Unintentional pun was still awful ** For reasons of liability, this was just a joke, of course. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lucidicide Posted May 2, 2016 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I'm going to say this once more: stop with personal attacks. Both sides of this discussion are interested in getting more people into the hobby, though they are coming at it from different sides, so I want to say two things: We are all on the same team; we just have different viewpoints. Maybe some time I'll record an argument between Mason, Justin, and myself. They can seriously last for days and get very heated, and yet we manage to do it without insulting each other. This is because we are a team, and I hope you can all take a moment to realize that, if you're posting on this forum, it's because you're part of the same team. The attacks on other people, direct or veiled, are incredibly impactful on who plays a game. A toxic community is a bad thing for the lifeblood of a game. Please remember that we are here to have fun. Wyrd appreciates criticism and viewpoints from all sides, so let's not make it a negative discussion that drives people away... and instead a constructive discussion that includes people's viewpoints. Also, last warning. I'm going to start deleting posts. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Just now, MrDeathTrout said: Wyrd has decided to support their community with the henchman program and prize kits. I'm sure the free models, guilders, alt stat cards were not cheap. I'm sure it is a lot of time and effort to design and administer the henchman/prize kit program. I'm sure they did not go to all the effort to alienate anyone. I'm disappointed all this effort on their part has lead to so much negativity. I'm sure it is every disheartening to those that put so much effort into the program. To all those who put effort into this program I want you to know I appreciate it. Thank you. I'm reserving my final thoughts on the matter. While this hasn't left the most pleasant thought in my mind, I'm hopeful still that this won't be the case, or at least not permanently the case. To my surprise last year, I was happy that the LE models released during the course of the year were up for sale on Black Friday. If that trend would continue this year, my problems would be relieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Loki- Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 10 minutes ago, valhallan42nd said: That's rough*. Still, there's always jumping them in an alley another creative way of getting a model.** * Unintentional pun was still awful ** For reasons of liability, this was just a joke, of course. Yeah, it's not an ideal situation. I'd like a bigger and better community around here, but it just seems to be focussed more on tournaments which I just don't enjoy much, especially for this game which I want to keep the ultra competitiveness out of. its a great system they've got going, and I admire any company that supports communities and stores as much as Wyrd does. It's just not ideal for me due to the focus of the community here. Doesn't bother me that much though. If I want a model, I'll get it. Just means I'm not giving the money to Wyrd, which I'd rather do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, -Loki- said: Doesn't bother me that much though. If I want a model, I'll get it. Just means I'm not giving the money to Wyrd, which I'd rather do. As would I. Which then I'd ask "why wouldn't Wyrd want us to invest in their game more directly?". And then I remember what happened with last year's Black Friday sale. #holdsoutforhope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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