Metal Gamin Errata

[Rurouni Benshin]

Well the defense 6 matched the spider so I don't see that as an issue, plus with Pom out of the way in general it would no longer be an issue. With walk and charge of 4 and a 1 inch engagement you knew well in advance if the bugger was coming and with ML4 you chose if you wanted to attack it, or get a disengaging strike to move to more important parts of the battlefield. 

Fair point, but I don't think these were the defining issues that justified the errata to begin with.

And Pom adding burning wasn't really relied on seeing as ml4 was going to have to connect. And if the burning was really worrisome it could easily be removed. 

Exactly, but since it wasn't removed, it wasn't an issue to begin with.  But not being able to target himself with the ability meant it would have to target another friendly model, otherwise it would (in theory) be able to apply Burning +2 to anything it hit, so long as it previously had put PoM on itself.

I dont care care about Pom. And it sounds like its removal is more than enough to get rid of a lot of the issues that was with it (burning dmg and extra def).  I would have been fine at this point, and heck I would have even tossed in the magnetism or reducing its cast to maybe a 5 like other 4 point minions.  But the loss of Htk to me is what is unnecessary 

This is the part where it's purely subjective to the player.  For me, without Magnetism, there is no point to taking the Metal Gamin.  By taking away HtK, it put it on equal footing with all of the other Gamins' defensive abilities, while still retaining it's own level of uniqueness.

Please see text in red.

[Rurouni Benshin]

 

as for those saying they are of great use in TT with mei feng etc I am sure a TT Brother would be a better option and seem to be even harder to actually take down.

Apples and oranges, my friend.  Not exactly fair to compare a 4 ss model to a 5 ss model.

[decker_cky]

 

as for those saying they are of great use in TT with mei feng etc I am sure a TT Brother would be a better option and seem to be even harder to actually take down.

Apples and oranges, my friend.  Not exactly fair to compare a 4 ss model to a 5 ss model.

TT Brothers are actually 6ss models. They just happen not to cost that much.

[Rurouni Benshin]

 

as for those saying they are of great use in TT with mei feng etc I am sure a TT Brother would be a better option and seem to be even harder to actually take down.

Apples and oranges, my friend.  Not exactly fair to compare a 4 ss model to a 5 ss model.

TT Brothers are actually 6ss models. They just happen not to cost that much.

Sorry, not sure who you're confusing them with, but unless I'm missing an errata on them, they're actually 5. 

[dgraz]

He's saying they're really good.

[Rurouni Benshin]

lol, well alright then.  Either way, my point still stands.  Tbh, I think the fairest way to compare a Metal Gamin is to the other Gamins in the game. 

[Bengt]

Not sure what the exploit is with Leveticus but Hoffman was tested with their Ca 8 and the developer team knew about it from week one and chose to not change it so it is definetly meant to be that easy for him to cast his spells. 

Hoffman has Ca 8 without MG and gets Ca 10 with them, due to Empower. So if he was tested with Ca 8 it really seems like Magnetism Ca should be lowered...

You are incorrect. It was tested that way during an open beta where people used it. If it was a problem, it would have been sorted then. If it really was a problem, it would have been corrected when they corrected PoM.

The first assertion assumes that all testing is flawless, which is ridiculous. But sure, Justin doesn't currently seem to think it's a problem.

Seriously bro? You're just picking at words now. He WAS tested with Metal Gamin....so was at the Ca 10 most of the open beta.

I don't assume that all testing is flawless....if it was, the Gamin wouldn't have gotten through as it was....but it is something that was looked at pretty strongly and people were intentionally trying to break it....idk, maybe you weren't involved.

First of, what's with the name calling?

Secondly, I think that it's disingenuous to refer to Hoffman as getting Ca 8 when that is not the case. And I'm not actually saying that there is a problem with him having Ca 10. I'm just saying that an open beta is not something very conclusive, in fact Justin doesn't seem to think open betas are good for anything since Wyrd are not going to do them in the future.

And no, I didn't play Malifaux during the wave 2 beta, but that is neither here nor there I think. If anything it's sound like an ad hominem.

[katadder]

still didnt think metal gamin were overpowered apart from as a mech rider summon. they rarely do anything other than sit around and are not always fast enough to get to the thing they need to sit next to. and now they are even more generic so that other gamin or spiders are usually a better choice.
 

even before this errata I was looking at saving points elsewhere to replace them with more useful models, and since the errata have spent more time updating all my lists

[Rurouni Benshin]

still didnt think metal gamin were overpowered apart from as a mech rider summon. they rarely do anything other than sit around and are not always fast enough to get to the thing they need to sit next to. and now they are even more generic so that other gamin or spiders are usually a better choice.

That part I just underlined is a large reason why.  Granted I don't know how many times you've faced the Mech Rider, so your experiences with it may be different from mine, but when a model is 99% of the time the choice to be summoned when given the choice of others, it's usually a sign that it needs to be addressed.  And the fact that it was Wk 4 was always mitigated since the Mech Rider has got a 6 Wk and usually across the board (or where it needs to be situationally) to summon the Metal Gamin where it doesn't have to walk anywhere far. 

To put it bluntly, unless you're summoning for the sake of schemes/strats, if you had to spend your summoned Metal Gamin's first 2 activations walking, then you're probably not using the Mech Rider to it's fullest potential. 

[dgraz]

 First of, what's with the name calling?

What? Now we live in a world where referring to someone as 'bro'....short for 'brother' is considered "name calling"? Are you kidding me?

Even if you're a female (in which case my bad for the confusion) I seriously don't think this rates as name calling. If it does then you are way too thin-skinned.

[Suzakuni]

I guess I never knew I was an abnormal arcanists player. I actually summoned whichever helped at the time. I really enjoyed summoning electrical creations in btb with baddies lol. 

 

Oh well, I've said my two cents, and even though I think other things could (and should) have been done. This is now the end product. 

[Math Mathonwy]

I wished they would have just gotten rid of magnetism and Pom.

Wait, what? Really?

*goes to check*

No, it's still there - whew!

...

Oh, wait, that's an 'm'.

Ahem.

Nevermind, then.

[Rurouni Benshin]

 

I guess I never knew I was an abnormal arcanists player. I actually summoned whichever helped at the time. I really enjoyed summoning electrical creations in btb with baddies lol.

Contrary to what I think you're suggesting, I'm not saying you "shouldn't" be summoning things that aren't situationally helpful.  Also, if I'm understanding the rules for the Electrical Creation correctly, "Shocking Touch" and "Explosive Demise" wouldn't work since it would die (and sacrifice itself) upon it's activation. 

[Suzakuni]

I was under the impression it takes damage and dies, it only sacrifices itself when it uses its attack, which wouldn't happen as he would die upon activation

[Suzakuni]

Or baddie would kill it, also setting it off

 

[Rurouni Benshin]

Or baddie would kill it, also setting it off

 

This is true, but since it has no engagement range, I would just move my model away from it (assuming I wasn't already engaged with something else). 

In order for a model to be "killed" it must be specifically must be dealt damage.  That said, you could be the one to deal damage to it (from whatever means you have), and thus triggering "Explosive Demise".  But if it were to activate without having been struck, it would simply die and be sacrificed.

[Bengt]

 First of, what's with the name calling?

What? Now we live in a world where referring to someone as 'bro'....short for 'brother' is considered "name calling"? Are you kidding me?

Even if you're a female (in which case my bad for the confusion) I seriously don't think this rates as name calling. If it does then you are way too thin-skinned.

I am not female. American media, e.g. How I met your mother, makes it crystal clear that a "bro" has transcended any original meaning of a shortening of brother and refers to a truly despicable person.

[dgraz]

 I am not female. American media, e.g. How I met your mother, makes it crystal clear that a "bro" has transcended any original meaning of a shortening of brother and refers to a truly despicable person.

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. I'm expected to watch every stupid sitcom so I don't accidentally use a word that the writers for one particular show have changed to have a new meaning?

I think not. 

[Mason]

I am not female. American media, e.g. How I met your mother, makes it crystal clear that a "bro" has transcended any original meaning of a shortening of brother and refers to a truly despicable person.

This might just be a North American thing, but "Bro" is usually seen as form of address between friends. It's not really a derogatory term, any more than calling someone "dude" would be (and both "surfer" culture and "bro" culture have been mocked and stereotyped for both). 

[Lucidicide]

I'm starting to miss discussion on the Metal Gamin, and that's saying something!

Let's stay on topic.

[Suzakuni]

Or baddie would kill it, also setting it off

 

This is true, but since it has no engagement range, I would just move my model away from it (assuming I wasn't already engaged with something else). 

In order for a model to be "killed" it must be specifically must be dealt damage.  That said, you could be the one to deal damage to it (from whatever means you have), and thus triggering "Explosive Demise".  But if it were to activate without having been struck, it would simply die and be sacrificed.

once it activates though, it's half life ability triggers dealing itself 1 damage. The ability doesn't claim that this causes sacrifice unlike its attack or Ramos uncontrolled explosion. I wish I had my card on me

[Rurouni Benshin]

Or baddie would kill it, also setting it off

 

This is true, but since it has no engagement range, I would just move my model away from it (assuming I wasn't already engaged with something else). 

In order for a model to be "killed" it must be specifically must be dealt damage.  That said, you could be the one to deal damage to it (from whatever means you have), and thus triggering "Explosive Demise".  But if it were to activate without having been struck, it would simply die and be sacrificed.

once it activates though, it's half life ability triggers dealing itself 1 damage. The ability doesn't claim that this causes sacrifice unlike its attack or Ramos uncontrolled explosion. I wish I had my card on me

I may be mistaken about it counting as "killed" then. Assuming it doesn't count as sacrificed, it's not a bad way to get 2 damage on everything 2" around it. I may still prefer a Gamin, but it's situational. 

[MagicGis]

I guess I never knew I was an abnormal arcanists player. I actually summoned whichever helped at the time. I really enjoyed summoning electrical creations in btb with baddies lol. 

 

Oh well, I've said my two cents, and even though I think other things could (and should) have been done. This is now the end product. 

The great thing is you don´t have to. As a valuable customer you have the right to point out bad balancing decisions and ask for improvements to a failed atempt or withdraw your support.

 

Feel free to ask for the required Hoff cuddle and either non removal of HtK or future improved version f PoM that validates the point costs.

actually no matter what others may say your opinion is important to wyrd if they have a sensable business approach, and good alternative solutions should be appreciated.

[Sordid Strumpet]

Actually the only right you have as a customer is to not buy something a company makes and that if you buy something, you get the model you bought with no pieces missing.

and as a rational human being you've got to accept that as it is designed by Wyrd, if in doubt - Wyrd knows best. And given by the level of discussion, there is no clear answer and Wyrd was perfectly right to make the decision they thought was best for the game over all.

[solkan]

The really frustrating issue with this discussion is that this discussion is currently a bunch of people speculating about the reasons for the errata, and then trying to decide, based on their speculation, whether the errata properly addressed those reasons.

Which part of the elephant does everyone have?