Flight/Incorporeal and elevation

[spydr261]

This seems like an elementary question and would be surprised if it hasn't been answered already but here goes: do models with Flight or Incorporeal only spend movement for vertical distance when their end point results in a change in elevation? For example, a model with Flight moves 3" plus any horizontal distance to get on a Ht 3 rock. Would the model still have to spend 3" of vertical movement if it just "flew over" the rock and ended up on the other side? I'm sure this would make more sense with a picture but i don't know how to make one, sorry.

 

[santaclaws01]

Correct, you only account for the Ht of terrain when you want to end your move on top of it and it is greater than the Ht you started on.

[Fetid Strumpet]

As long as you aren't changing elevation, and can complete the move in one movement, you wouldn't have to go to the bottom and back up. A model on a 10" tower, 3" away from another 10" tower, with flight could move between them without extra movement. If however it was more than one walk to complete the distance than Solkan is correct in that you'd need to fall (No damage for a model with flight) and then move 10" back up the tower.

[Ludvig]

 

As long as you aren't changing elevation, and can complete the move in one movement, you wouldn't have to go to the bottom and back up. A model on a 10" tower, 3" away from another 10" tower, with flight could move between them without extra movement. If however it was more than one walk to complete the distance than Solkan is correct in that you'd need to fall (No damage for a model with flight) and then move 10" back up the tower.

That would imply that falling doesn't happen until the end of a movement instead of immediately.

I think that as they ignore terrain 'during' movement, in this case he wouldn't 'fall' until the movement ends. During the movement the terrain, in this case elevation, doesn't matter. If the model can't make it to the other side in one AP though, then the movement 'ends' out floating in the air and falls for no damage.

Just my take on it, but I feel its consistent with the FAQs.

All movement happens along the tabletop at tabletop level. Falling is done as soon as you move off elevation. This was discussed a couple of weeks ago and I think even made it into the FAQ. Flying models ignore falling damage, not the falling rules themselves so as soon as you move off elevation you are at ground level and will need to fly back up.

[solkan]

Flight: This model is immune to falling damage and may ignore any terrain or models while moving.

When you move the flying model, you ignore any of the terrain (because it's inconvenient) between where the model starts and where it ends.  So you measure through everything else--measure the distance across a wall, don't measure up one side, across the top, and then down again.

I believe that does mean that a model on top of one 10" tall tower that wanted to move using Flight to the top of another 10" tall tower would end up calculating the movement as 10" down to the ground, then the distance between the two towers, and then 10" up the other tower.

(Edit:  Although I think the model on top of the 10" tower does have the option to move off of the tower, fall to the ground harmlessly for free, and then continue moving.  So you don't have to pay to climb down the tower...)

  Because the FAQ for flight says that the model has to pay the vertical movement for its final position:

Q: A model with the Incorporeal Ability ignores terrain when it moves. If it is on the ground floor of a building which is 10” tall, can it end its move on top of the building, even if its Wk stat is less than 10, since it ignores the building while moving? Same question for a model with Flight in regards to vertical terrain.

A: No. Although measurements in Malifaux are generally made from a top down view, vertical distances are measured while moving a model (see pg. 42 of the rulebook, Movement & Terrain). If the model with Incorporeal ends its move on top of the 10” tall building, it would have moved 10” and, unless it has a Wk of 10 or greater, this is not a legal move. However, if the Incorporeal model has a sufficient Wk stat to complete the move, it would be able to end the move on top of the terrain, ignoring the usual rules for climbing, etc. Flight works similarly, except in the case of Enclosed terrain (see Enclosed terrain, rulebook pg. 60).

I think the "practicality over fancy effects" version is that even models with Flight have to move along the table surface (ignoring and thus effectively moving "through" terrain as they go), rather than moving their base through the air.

Edited September 17, 2015 by solkan

[santaclaws01]

Flight: This model is immune to falling damage and may ignore any terrain or models while moving.

When you move the flying model, you ignore any of the terrain (because it's inconvenient) between where the model starts and where it ends.  So you measure through everything else--measure the distance across a wall, don't measure up one side, across the top, and then down again.

I believe that does mean that a model on top of one 10" tall tower that wanted to move using Flight to the top of another 10" tall tower would end up calculating the movement as 10" down to the ground, then the distance between the two towers, and then 10" up the other tower.

(Edit:  Although I think the model on top of the 10" tower does have the option to move off of the tower, fall to the ground harmlessly for free, and then continue moving.  So you don't have to pay to climb down the tower...)

  Because the FAQ for flight says that the model has to pay the vertical movement for its final position:

Q: A model with the Incorporeal Ability ignores terrain when it moves. If it is on the ground floor of a building which is 10” tall, can it end its move on top of the building, even if its Wk stat is less than 10, since it ignores the building while moving? Same question for a model with Flight in regards to vertical terrain.

A: No. Although measurements in Malifaux are generally made from a top down view, vertical distances are measured while moving a model (see pg. 42 of the rulebook, Movement & Terrain). If the model with Incorporeal ends its move on top of the 10” tall building, it would have moved 10” and, unless it has a Wk of 10 or greater, this is not a legal move. However, if the Incorporeal model has a sufficient Wk stat to complete the move, it would be able to end the move on top of the terrain, ignoring the usual rules for climbing, etc. Flight works similarly, except in the case of Enclosed terrain (see Enclosed terrain, rulebook pg. 60).

I think the "practicality over fancy effects" version is that even models with Flight have to move along the table surface (ignoring and thus effectively moving "through" terrain as they go), rather than moving their base through the air.

That's actually something I hadn't considered, but I agree that RAW a model with flight would still fall as soon as it moves off the terrain and would have to move back up to the top.

 

As long as you aren't changing elevation, and can complete the move in one movement, you wouldn't have to go to the bottom and back up. A model on a 10" tower, 3" away from another 10" tower, with flight could move between them without extra movement. If however it was more than one walk to complete the distance than Solkan is correct in that you'd need to fall (No damage for a model with flight) and then move 10" back up the tower.

That would imply that falling doesn't happen until the end of a movement instead of immediately.

[Paddywhack]

 

As long as you aren't changing elevation, and can complete the move in one movement, you wouldn't have to go to the bottom and back up. A model on a 10" tower, 3" away from another 10" tower, with flight could move between them without extra movement. If however it was more than one walk to complete the distance than Solkan is correct in that you'd need to fall (No damage for a model with flight) and then move 10" back up the tower.

That would imply that falling doesn't happen until the end of a movement instead of immediately.

I think that as they ignore terrain 'during' movement, in this case he wouldn't 'fall' until the movement ends. During the movement the terrain, in this case elevation, doesn't matter. If the model can't make it to the other side in one AP though, then the movement 'ends' out floating in the air and falls for no damage.

Just my take on it, but I feel its consistent with the FAQs.