Freman Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Wasn't this thread up to 16 pages last night? Did we have a server collapse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 We did. I reiterate: Zfiend is allowed to play all of the Guild and won't be holden to Lucius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I shall do this again, then. Not even sure whether ZFiend saw it the first time.ZFiend, I challenge you to a duel!The cream of the crap: Lucius vs Yan Lo! We shall find out who is the real bottom of the pile in Malifaux. May the worst Master lose! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I maintain, Yan Lo is a pretty great master. He certainly feels "master level" between Lightning Dance, Terracotta Curse, and the ability to do most things at Ca 8. Unfortunately, in a match-up against Lucius he's going to look even better - he's maybe the only Master faster than Ironsides or Brewie at just locking a whole crew down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Unfortunately, in a match-up against Lucius he's going to look even better - he's maybe the only Master faster than Ironsides or Brewie at just locking a whole crew down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Does this make Lucius the "winner" or are there any other contenders? I have heard Tara catch some flak but have far too little experience to dare nominate her. Something akin to the resser/guild challenge where people write battle reports might be cool to discover some hidden sides of masters considered weak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I mean the hidden side of Lucius is that he's great in Neverborn? Honest. Give the man a pair of Illuminated and On Darkness Wings and he's golden. Even more than most masters, Illuminated just solve his problems - too suit dependent? Have a soulstone. You can only order around minions? Forget minions, these guys are some of the best models in the game for damage dealing and tanking. Lucius has an easier time than Lynch at putting out Brilliance because suddenly a single Illuminated can focus-shoot the Brill-cloud, walk into a perfect charge lane, and charge all in one turn. Or a single Beckoner can lure in two models and give them both brilliance and it's just utterly trivial. Oh, and On Darkness Wings does way more to mitigate his hand dependence than I feel is reasonable, and even with Wk 4 Flight is a great ability for Lucius to have. And if that's not enough, in Neverborn he actually has a reason to make use of Surprisingly Loyal, because an Austringer, a Rifleman, and Queeg is 18 stones very well spent. Is he the equal of a Lynch or Lillith? No. But I'd rank him with Zoraida. In Guild Lucius is really only useful if you're playing a game where the two crews want to engage, but don't want to kill each other (Distract and Cursed Object are by far his best schemes, Squatters is his best strategy. Plant Explosives and Spring the Trap get honorable mentions in my book). In strictly marker based pools you're better off with McGuilding of Hoffman and in kill pools you're better off with literally any other master in the game. But that's my two cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Does this make Lucius the "winner" or are there any other contenders? I have heard Tara catch some flak but have far too little experience to dare nominate her. Something akin to the resser/guild challenge where people write battle reports might be cool to discover some hidden sides of masters considered weak.Huh? Tara is very good I think. Certainly in the better half of Masters in the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Does this make Lucius the "winner" or are there any other contenders?. While I feel Mah is on the lower end of the power soectrum, I would rate her higher than Lucius. Biggest problem of Lucius is he just needs so many resources and with bad luck or hand he actively hurts your crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Huh? Tara is very good I think. Certainly in the better half of Masters in the game. I must be remembering some old discussions about Carina and the Beast or something. As I said I have very little experience against her (1 game), looks like I will be seeing her more regularly quite soon since a newer player in my area has picked her up. Admiral: In regards to his efficiency in Neverborn I just figured this discussion was Guild Lucius, I have had lots of fun with him in Neverborn since there he can take able minions as you said and can also get extra/better cards to his hand through Stitched and the Wings of Darkness. Back to the Guild side: The problem with Lucius is that you need super high suited cards to get him to do anything, just take a look at what other masters can get done with the same cards and and AP, both Hoffman and McCabe can do almost exactly the same thing but much easier since they require a lot lower cards and can give AP to Henchmen and Enforcers instead of minions. Oh, and since Lucius ability was apparently considered so overpowered you're not allowed to target the same model more than once in a turn while Hoffman, McCabe and Colette are all free to do so with models that are hands down just better. Lucius defensive abilities are also laughable: I can pay extra stones to get a defensive ability that is exactly like Kirais/Marcus' but Lucius has to spend a stone AND a card while Kirai and Marcus just needs the card which sometimes even happens randomly so you don't even need to cheat it. Kirai can also automatically summon a sacrificial spirit every turn for a (0). Meanwhile Lucius can't summon and need his buddies to be alive and be a Guardsman or Mimic (who are generally super fragile). Highest authority requires a card to be discarded (in which case you basically get what Zoraida gets for free against all attacks) but Lucius doesn't have a single card draw mechanic available in Guild and as earlier stated needs cards to guarantee any of his actions do anything (except paralyzing his own models, that he does A LOT if you don't save 8+ cards in your hand). The Commanding Presence action actually has a higher chance of costing you two AP than it has of giving you one, that's not exactly super when you look at risk-reward ratio and no other AP-giving masters even has a chance of costing you AP as far I know. The more I play him the more I am convinced he is utterly and truly the worst master in the game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 You forgot that he is so overpowered in his abilities that he cannot affect those truly broken Austringers with his commanding presence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Oh, no, he can effect them with Commanding Presence. They're just too unruly to respond to any Commands he might Issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Ahh yes, I got my abilities mixed up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I should say, it would probably be reasonable to deny Issue Command to Austringers if it didn't have the once per model per turn limitation OR it didn't require a suit to add Focus. As-is... I mean, it would be good but is that such a crime? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I think they were worried to make Lucius too strong and they overstepped it. If he needed the suits but the cards were moderate-low (5-6) then he would be ok. If he wouldn`t need the suits but the cards would be higher (8-9) that would also be cool, but right now he is mostly Neverborn. If Devil`s Deal would allow reduction with Armour it would be also "not as broken" as Guild lacks armoured stuff (except Peacekeeper) and doesn`t have a lot of heals. Take Emissary with Lucius Upgrade Take Illuminated Illuminated have Regen +2 Free Soulstones :< 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Even in Neverborn, I feel it's basically Illuminated that makes him good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I've had some fun times with Nephilim since he grows them quite well but he's far from the A-game masters no matter the list and scheme pool. The horrible truth is that you are probably better off taking the Illuminated with Collodi or anyone else really. What's happened to zFiend btw? He hasn't been around making jokes and more importantly hasn't posted his latest Guild exploits (unless I missed something in the battle reports section). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I think we may have depressed him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Well, here's a thing; http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/bsgAAOSwgQ9VykNe/$_57.JPG So, I had suspected the Orderlies might be good for Lucius, and here we have a regenerating, card cycling, Unimpeded, Wk 6/Cg 8 minion. If someone has the rules PLEASE spoil the back of the card for me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 2AP 2 Wds Heal in 6" Ml5 2/3/5 Range 1 attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 What's happened to zFiend btw? He hasn't been around making jokes and more importantly hasn't posted his latest Guild exploits (unless I missed something in the battle reports section).He is alive and well (played five games with Guild last weekend). I wonder if he just hasn't noticed that the forums are up again. I'll poke him tomorrow - tell him that his fans are worried 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 He is alive and well (played five games with Guild last weekend). I wonder if he just hasn't noticed that the forums are up again. I'll poke him tomorrow - tell him that his fans are worried You do that. I miss the big guy.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Big guy? Is there something I don`t know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Big guy? Is there something I don`t know? I don't know, but for someone my height, it's a good assumption. Especially about a guy going to the gym, and with Viking blood in his veins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 He`s Finnish. He has Salmon blood more than Viking blood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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