Erorior Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 This discussion came up when me and my friend (Paradigm in the forums) walked his dog, and as usual the topic came back to this lovely game (Due the amount of Malifaux-related talk and the frequency of walks, his dog is probably quite proficient by now... ) . After the usual talk about strategies and interactions, we came to muse upon how much the different masters would cost if you actually paid precious soulstones for them when hiring a crew. While we didn't specify much, we pondered if he would pay more than 12 ss for his precious Misaki and I had a really hard time putting the price on Tara. I thought it could be fun to hear your thoughts on the matter; How much do you think your favourite (or most dreaded) master should cost? And why? (I apologize if this topic have already been brought up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 The cost for masters has already been calculated by the designers. Basically every master/henchman is cost 14SS - Cache. The cache value is the leftover cost from base 14SS of the model. Example: Hamelin, Cache 1. His base cost is 13SS. Collodi, Cache 3. His base cost is 11SS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Henchmen cost + cache is 13 not 14. I haven't seen any official word on what the base cost is for Masters but I suspect it would be a noticeably more since they are quite a bit better. They have the extra AP if nothing else, generally more wounds, and they often have a set of talents that are either more flexible or more powerful than Henchmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Henchmen cost + cache is 13 not 14. I haven't seen any official word on what the base cost is for Masters but I suspect it would be a noticeably more since they are quite a bit better. They have the extra AP if nothing else, generally more wounds, and they often have a set of talents that are either more flexible or more powerful than Henchmen. I'll have to sift through the old Malifools podcasts. It was Justin I believe on one of the older ones (about 2 years ago) talking to Joel and Mike about M2E as it was getting ready to launch where he said 14SS was the cap on cost for a master and how the figured out the cache for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erorior Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 The cost for masters has already been calculated by the designers. Basically every master/henchman is cost 14SS - Cache. The cache value is the leftover cost from base 14SS of the model. Example: Hamelin, Cache 1. His base cost is 13SS. Collodi, Cache 3. His base cost is 11SS. Ah, I see. As I´m fairly new to the game (been playing since January) I haven't gotten around to listen to the different podcasts. Thanks for the info though, that explains the vastly different caches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I'll have to sift through the old Malifools podcasts. It was Justin I believe on one of the older ones (about 2 years ago) talking to Joel and Mike about M2E as it was getting ready to launch where he said 14SS was the cap on cost for a master and how the figured out the cache for them. I'm just saying that if you compare any Master and any Henchman with the same cache, the power difference is way more than 1 SS. And we know that Henchmen are 13 based since it's printed right there on their cards (well except VickyB and Huggy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderwiggin Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 The cost for masters has already been calculated by the designers. Basically every master/henchman is cost 14SS - Cache. The cache value is the leftover cost from base 14SS of the model. Example: Hamelin, Cache 1. His base cost is 13SS. Collodi, Cache 3. His base cost is 11SS. Just my humble opinion, but I'd pay more than that for another Collodi in my crew, even before upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 As someone who has designed three masters and done significant work on many others, I assure you there is not a 14ss cost for masters. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erorior Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 As someone who has designed three masters and done significant work on many others, I assure you there is not a 14ss cost for masters. Are you gonna tempt us with only that statement, or would you share a teensy-weensy bit of juicy details with us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Are you gonna tempt us with only that statement, or would you share a teensy-weensy bit of juicy details with us? Probably the former. That's how he rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 We basically know a henchman + cache is worth 13 ss. A master is better than a henchman. Whilst I couldn'd give you a Value (X) of the master, Each should be worth X-cache. Personally I'd look at X being in the region of 20, but thats gut feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 We basically know a henchman + cache is worth 13 ss. A master is better than a henchman. Whilst I couldn'd give you a Value (X) of the master, Each should be worth X-cache. Personally I'd look at X being in the region of 20, but thats gut feeling. Lynch as an abysmal cache, and his thematic crew (sans Huggy - although maybe Huggy is why) costs a lot per model. I doubt very much that Lynch + Huggy + 1cache = 20ss cost. That would mean Lynch costs 11ss to field. The Viktorias may be a better example, although I don't know Ashes' cache or Blood's cache either. ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clement Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Keep in mind the stuff you get for just any master showing up. 3AP Soulstone use Access to specific upgrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 As someone who has designed three masters and done significant work on many others, I assure you there is not a 14ss cost for masters. Pics or it didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 It's top secret files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I seem to remember that at some point of campaign testing masters used to cost 25ss (and you got their cache to the ss pool). Seems like the right ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderwiggin Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I don't think there's a master out there I'd take for 25ss now. Really only the stronger summoners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I don't think there's a master out there I'd take for 25ss now. Really only the stronger summoners...Not in a 50ss game, but what about 75ss? Besides, the actual price was more like 25-cache, because the cache of the master was added to your ss pool for the game.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderwiggin Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Other than summoners, no, I still probably wouldn't. You pack effective models into that price bracket and you enjoy a very nice activation advantage on top of wounds. As for killing potential, that heavily depends on the models. Multiple Illuminated, Thunder Archers, Coryphee, December acolytes, etc. would all provide different benefits at fairly close exchange rates with the added benefits I mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'll have to sift through the old Malifools podcasts. It was Justin I believe on one of the older ones (about 2 years ago) talking to Joel and Mike about M2E as it was getting ready to launch where he said 14SS was the cap on cost for a master and how the figured out the cache for them. I did? You're probably thinking of Henchman, and 13. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 In terms of crew value, and I think 18 (including cache) is roughly where the value is. Definitely much more than the 13SS henchmen get. That puts the non-cache cost of most masters around 15, which, compared to the most expensive other models out there, seems like a fair comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxypoo Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 My gut instinct is that masters float in the 18-20SS range minus their cache. They're definitely worth more than the 13SS henchman (total of cost + cache), simply because of the versatility and power they bring. While many masters do similar things to henchmen, the masters' actions tend to be more powerful, and they have a wider variety of actions compared to henchmen. Also, there are a whole lot of actions and abilities that are unique to masters. It would be really interesting to hear comments from Justin or Aaron in regards to whether masters have a specific cost or whether they go more by "feel" when being designed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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