May FAQ

[Justin]

Enjoy: http://wyrd-games.net/community/files/file/21-malifaux-2e-faq-errata/

[zFiend]

Finally slug!

[Dirial]

Pleased to see Slug resolved. Also pleased by the new layout. Very nice.

[Kadeton]

Ah, fond memories of the Sensei Yu + Drinking Contest thread.

Slug seems like an odd example to use for Hallucinogens, since it's not a Ml Action.

[Dirial]

Slug seems like an odd example to use for Hallucinogens, since it's not a Ml Action.

 

It's a trigger that could be on a melee action. Although an actually existing attack might be a better example. What about Black Death?

[solkan]

Concerning the new FAQ question:

 

Q: Can you help clarify what “Acting model” means in the Collect the Bounty Strategy?

A: The Acting model is the model taking an Action. If no model is taking an Action, there is no Acting model and neither player may score points. If a model which the Acting model considers an enemy is killed, Bounty Points may be scored. So if one model Activates and performs an Attack against an enemy, but is killed by the enemy’s Df Trigger, the enemy scores no Bounty Points as it was not the Acting model. (5/1/15)

 

If Model A takes an action which does Obey on Model B to take an attack action on Model C, are both A and B the acting model?

 

Or is just Model B considered to be the Acting Model since that's the model performing the current action?   In other words, something recursive like this for when actions generate actions:

• Model A takes an action, making it the acting model
• which causes Obey on B to perform an attack action
  • B becomes the acting model
  • B performs the action which attacks C
• A goes back to being the active model, if there's anything left to perform for the action

in case you end up with one of those silly "Everyone obey the model to your left" chains. 

 

Or are the obey-chains non-recursive?

• Model A takes an action against B which causes Obey.  During that action, A is the acting model.
• A's action is now done.
• B now performs the action which A caused it to take, and now B is the acting model.

[lusciousmccabe]

I believe the effect of Obey is to cause the action so the second action happens after it. Also, since Obey is an attack you can't really get into pingpong situation.

 

Great work on the FAQ. 

[StuffedKiwi]

Many thanks for the FAQ, especially (for me) for clarifying what an 'acting' model is, as far as Collect the Bounty is concerned.

 

Concerning the new FAQ question:

 

If Model A takes an action which does Obey on Model B to take an attack action on Model C, are both A and B the acting model?

 

 

I would argue (as I think someone did during the original thread that discussed this question of "acting" models) that yes, they are: for the duration of model B's action, which was generated by model A casting Obey, BOTH model A and B are acting; model B's action is a 'subset,' if you like, of model A's action. Thus, if model B (team 2) attacked and killed model C while obeyed by model A (team 1), Collect the Bounty points would be scored by whichever team that model C did NOT belong to: if C is an enemy of A, team 1 gets points; if C is an enemy of B, team 2 gets points. Likewise, if model B's action caused model B to die (e.g., it attacked model C, which has a Df trigger that kills model B ), then team 1 would get points, as model A is still an acting model at this point, as is model B.

 

BUT I'm totally willing to be argued out of that, if anyone thinks that's unhelpfully complicated or a mistaken understanding of how the rules works.

[Kadeton]

BUT I'm totally willing to be argued out of that, if anyone thinks that's unhelpfully complicated or a mistaken understanding of how the rules works.

I'd agree with your reasoning.

But I'd like to see "Are the obey-chains non-recursive?" as a question in the next FAQ.

[Patzer]

No official ruling on the Blackblood-condition this time. Neither the Wings of Darkness and Devils' Deal interaction. I will wait patiently

 

On the Obey in Collect the Bounty question, I would rule it as model A is obeying model B it is still model A's action. Since if an action results in another action it is still a part of the first action. So, if model A's Obey would end up killing model C it is model A that is acting and model A that is scoring for the bounty. Of course, I might be wrong.

[Ausplosions]

Im a bit  pissed off that the explanation of "Acting Model" was written in such an uninformative and not at all helpful way. 

 

 

It says a model taking an action. But then says Df triggers won't count. What of that defence trigger is an action. 

 

What about obey? 

 

 

Looking forward to waiting several more months for a clarification... 

 

 

The key to an FAQ is to actually answer the questions.

[Sholto]

A model performing an Action is referred to in the rules many times as "the acting model". If you were to assume that an action taken due to eg. Obey did not result in the Obeyed model immediately becoming an acting model, then many of the rules would not work. For example, all LoS is described as being from the acting model to the target. The intention cannot be that Obeyed models cannot draw LoS. Therefore Obeyed models are also acting models.

 

Note that nowhere does it say that there can be only one acting model at a time. So the model who eg. casts Obey is acting. So is the model who takes an action due to Obey.

[Justin]

Im a bit  pissed off that the explanation of "Acting Model" was written in such an uninformative and not at all helpful way. 

 

 

It says a model taking an action. But then says Df triggers won't count. What of that defence trigger is an action. 

 

What about obey? 

 

 

Looking forward to waiting several more months for a clarification... 

 

 

The key to an FAQ is to actually answer the questions.

I'm honestly surprised this was unclear, I apologize.

And I'm confused how a Df trigger could be an Action? Actions are very clearly defined game terms, and Triggers are not Actions. What is the issue?

[wizuriel]

Pleased to see Slug resolved. Also pleased by the new layout. Very nice.

 

sweet, now now just need an answer for the Malifaux child 

[Dirial]

sweet, now now just need an answer for the Malifaux child 

 

Also, Aura Ancestral is still on my list. But my most pressing issue is resolved.

[papa smurf]

I am a firm believer that there can only be one acting model. One the phrase acting model is just that acting model, NOT acting "models". It is quite singular. 2 when resolving multiple abilities at once the acting model does it's bit First. You don't have 2 acting models Then see which one is the "real" acting model. And if both are your models again it creates a loop to see who is resolved first.

Once obey succeeds and the other model begins performing an action It is the now the acting model. And the model with obey would become first player or second player (or defending if you attack it with the obeyed model) when resolving simultaneous abilities.

For collect bounty "Whenever an enemy model is killed or sacrificed, the acting model's controller" if the acting model doesn't consider the target enemy no points.

The obeying model is not the one taking the action. What's friendly to it could be enemy to the model that is obeyed.

Which gives the odd scenario of obeying enemy models to kill your own stuff to gain points.

[Justin]

Updated this file slightly.

 

Just going to deal with collect the bounty in the gaining grounds document.

[papa smurf]

Ah so you removed it from ze faq ok. I patiently await:)

[jonahmaul]

I was hoping we'd get a clarification on whether Pandora uses opposing Blasts when using Self-Harm.  It's still a debated topic in my gaming group (and on the forum here).

[Patzer]

I was hoping we'd get a clarification on whether Pandora uses opposing Blasts when using Self-Harm.  It's still a debated topic in my gaming group (and on the forum here).

"Select a 1 AP y action on the target. Apply the printed damage results of the chosen action to the target,no other effects or triggers from the chosen action are applied. The accuracy modifier is determined by the result of this duel."

 

What constitutes an effect or not isn't clearly defined (If I can recall correctly) but I would say that a blast marker is an effect. For instance: "Bearskin Armor: This model may ignore damage from p and b effects."

[Myyrä]

"Select a 1 AP y action on the target. Apply the printed damage results of the chosen action to the target,no other effects or triggers from the chosen action are applied. The accuracy modifier is determined by the result of this duel."

 

What constitutes an effect or not isn't clearly defined (If I can recall correctly) but I would say that a blast marker is an effect. For instance: "Bearskin Armor: This model may ignore damage from p and b effects."

Damage is an effect too. Anything and everything caused by literally anything is an effect. The right question to ask is whether blasts are part of the printed damage result. To me it seems like they are printed as part of the damage track, but some people seem to disagree.

[jonahmaul]

"Select a 1 AP y action on the target. Apply the printed damage results of the chosen action to the target,no other effects or triggers from the chosen action are applied. The accuracy modifier is determined by the result of this duel."

 

What constitutes an effect or not isn't clearly defined (If I can recall correctly) but I would say that a blast marker is an effect. For instance: "Bearskin Armor: This model may ignore damage from p and b effects."

 

 

Damage is an effect too. Anything and everything caused by literally anything is an effect. The right question to ask is whether blasts are part of the printed damage result. To me it seems like they are printed as part of the damage track, but some people seem to disagree.

 

Here is the need for clarification!  I agree with Patzer but I think Myyra makes a good case too.

[Myyrä]

Here is the need for clarification!  I agree with Patzer but I think Myyra makes a good case too.

I agree with Patzer too. What he is saying happens to have no relevance for the question at hand however.

[jonahmaul]

I agree with Patzer too. What he is saying happens to have no relevance for the question at hand however.

The way I read Patzer's response is that Blasts are an effect and as Pandora doesn't use the printed effects they don't get added.  Which is the opposite to what you claimed.

[Dirial]

The way I read Patzer's response is that Blasts are an effect and as Pandora doesn't use the printed effects they don't get added.  Which is the opposite to what you claimed.

 

The result is opposite, but the reasoning happens to be totally different.

[Justin]

The result is opposite, but the reasoning happens to be totally different.

 

I enjoy that this sort of discussion is so ingrained int he rules forum that we're dissecting meanings in a post by someone who can just come back here and tell us what he meant...

 

Anyway, Collect the Bounty updated in gaining grounds along with proxy rules: http://wyrd-games.net/community/files/file/52-gaining-grounds/