The Zinc Lich Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Alright, so, I have a thing for models with cool synergy abilities, and you don't get much more cool or synergistic than the Doppelganger's Mimic. Now, thanks to Lucius' Neverborn posse, we Guild players get a chance to play with it. What ideas does everyone have? -Flaming Bullets: Thanks to Useless Duplication, the Doppelganger is unable to be shot as she moves into position. With that, and the faster movespeed than ol' Samael, she can apply the Mark of Incineration and let him do what he does best: shoot the ever-loving crap out of people. -"Te Llevare al Inferno Conmigo!": Once again, having Useless Duplications means you have a copy of Papa who is almost impossible to get rid of except in melee. Sounds good to me. -Empty the Magazine: An attack that causes slow, which has a trigger that deals extra damage to a model that is already slow. I can really see why they specified that it can only be used once per turn... except now it can't. -Dispel Magic: My vote for the best, most accessible condition clearing in the game. There isn't a reason why you shouldn't have access to this, especially considering how much Lucius likes Witchlings, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I may be mistaken, but if you were playing Lucius as Guild you wouldn't be able to hire the doppelganger as would have to declare your faction as guild and it is Neverborn and not a Mercenary...Therefore, you would not be able to mimic these abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrflamme Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Lucius has an upgrade that allows him to take Guardsmen or Mimic models even when declaring as the other faction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Pine Box? The Judge's Command ability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Ah ha, I am wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 -Empty the Magazine: An attack that causes slow, which has a trigger that deals extra damage to a model that is already slow. I can really see why they specified that it can only be used once per turn... except now it can't. Doppelganger says no triggers. But i like the train of thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Doppelganger says no triggers. But i like the train of thought. Correct. Still, Doppelganger can use it first, which makes the trigger on Sidir's follow-up really nasty. Also, when copying Samael's gun, the extra damage to burning enemies is built in, not a trigger. Thus, a really good gun to copy. Same for his mallet, although she doesn't get Crit Strike. She can copy the Executioner's heal, which is nice. If she copies the Pathfinder's weapons, she still gets the bonus for traps, as it's built in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 They should really release an alternate Doppelganger for Guild that looks like the woman from Terminator 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Doppelganger could copy Samael's "Burn Them Out" for a few extra attempts at spreading the fiery love. I doubt many people fancy seeing 3, 4 or maybe even 5 (2 from Sam, 2 from Doppelganger + 1 from Trigger on Mimic) of those coming their way a turn! Just imagine... Burning +20 *drools* Say you say EXTRA crispy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 ... and then someone Obeys your Witchling Stalker to remove the burning condition and there are tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i9haunter Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Wouldn't it be one condition of burning they would remove and not all 20? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorlucky Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 You don't need a condition removal, it is an interact action to remove burning. And it would be all of it, because it removes the burning condition. It doesn't lower the condition by one, it removes the condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Pretty sure the burning rules in the rule book disagree with you. 1 interact per burning +1 till 0. "Any model within 2" (including the burning model) may take a (1) Interact Action with the burning model to remove 1 from its Burning value. If the value reaches 0, the Condition is removed. The Burning Condition is considered to read:..." But if a Witchling stalker or other condition removal removed burning then it takes all the stacks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Godlyness is correct. That's how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Godlyness is correct. That's how it works. Yup. condition removal would make you cry but thankfully not every crew takes it and not every crew has Obey either. To remove Burning +20 by interact actions you'd need 10 models interacting with the model twice. This is just not going to happen because most crews are lucky if they can get 10 models and they just wont be in range to remove all the Burning, bottom line... somethng is gonna die horribly. Burning +20 is a bit of over kill, it'll be fun to try out one day though. Still... Once plastic Kaeris is out I'm going to be trying to stack up that sort of burning on things in my dumb fun games just to see how crispy I can make things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I brought up the example mostly because it was silly, but in our group we did have a case where Sam and Sonnia got someone to Burning +11... only to have a Witchling take the whole stack off. So that scenario more or less did happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 You do know anything involving Hopkins needs to be labeled as 'Doppelsammer' right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Sarcasm) Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 I thought of one a while back but I'm not sure if it is legal. Hans' tactical action "smile you son of a..." removes an upgrade from a model (not on a trigger mind you) and does no damage, this is balanced because his front card ability "to the highest bidder" means they always have the option of discarding two cards. Sounds pretty nasty to me. So can the doppelganger mimic this and if so what can I say to the friend I have talked to about this discovery to convince them that M2E is balanced as they have been quite apprehensive about M2E and this sadly hasn't helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 I thought of one a while back but I'm not sure if it is legal. Hans' tactical action "smile you son of a..." removes an upgrade from a model (not on a trigger mind you) and does no damage, this is balanced because his front card ability "to the highest bidder" means they always have the option of discarding two cards. Sounds pretty nasty to me. So can the doppelganger mimic this and if so what can I say to the friend I have talked to about this discovery to convince them that M2E is balanced as they have been quite apprehensive about M2E and this sadly hasn't helped. Well sure the Doppelganger can copy "Smile, you Son of a..." but the condition says "This Model's Sh Actions deal no damage" The Doppelganger has no natural Shooting action so it would have to find a way to copy the action from Hans and then copy a shooting action in the same activation to pull this off. I cannot think of anything that gives the Doppelganger right now the ability to do the same (0) action twice so you are pretty safe from them ever pulling this trick off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Sarcasm) Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Hmm, I see what you're getting at. The doppelganger actually can't take (0) actions but smile is a (1) so thats no issue. Would Lucius ability to give the doppelganger extra actions make this work? Or maybe there is something to give her fast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 It does not matter. The Doppelganger's Mimic action is a (0) and it has nothing that lets it take that (0) action again. So it can only Mimic 1 thing, so if it Mimic "Smile, You Son of ..." then it cannot Mimic a Shooting action. And "Smile, You Son of..." only works with shooting actions of which the Doppelganger lacks naturally. Also Mimic only lasts for the Activation so even if you got reactivation somehow the first would fade before you could use it again. So Fast and more actions will not help it unless you somehow give it the ability to take the same (0) action twice which there is currently no way. So you will never be able to pull off the Doppelganger using this trick. So far I think the only person that can pull off using Han's tactical action, besides Hans, is Tara. She can Bury Hans and use a tactical action from one of her upgrades to take the "Smile, you Son of..." action and then use her Peacebringer to shoot upgrades off. Not a bad tactic if you can set it up right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Tara can Bury Hans and use a tactical action from one of her upgrades to take the "Smile, you Son of..." action and then use her Peacebringer to shoot upgrades off. Not a bad tactic if you can set it up right. Brilliant. I have to try this some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Sarcasm) Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Right, of course, thanks Void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgotmytea Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Mine's not as exciting as burning +20 ( ) but the last game I ran Lucius, my Doppelganger was copying Mr Grave's Show Ya The Door most turns. That much mobility in a Guild crew was just great fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 If the doppleganger pine boxes something then doesnt copy the ability next turn can the opponents model get out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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