Problem: Model mounted on wrong sized base

[Nikko Andass]

Hey, All -- I hope this is the right spot to post this.

 

In my enthusiasm to finish up my "Relic Hunters" crew, I ended up mounting my "Dismounted McCabe" to a 40mm base instead of a 30mm one. I used the "Ghost Town" 40mm base insert for this model, w/o realizing that the 40mm base included in the crew set was intended for Sidir, not McCabe. Since it's a custom base that I modified and epoxied, not to mention pinned the figure to, re-basing the figure at this point is really not an option. 

 

My question, then, regarding the rules implications of this noobified screw-up is: Since the insert itself is a perfect 30mm diameter, would it be considered "legal" to simply measure all movement and interactions with this model from the outside of the insert, ignoring the extra 10mm of base surrounding it? On it's face, it seems a simple enough solution to me. This isn't spelled out explicitly in the rulebook, obviously. Is this just something I'll have to learn to live with, or have I ruined this model for any future skirmishes and/or tournament match-ups?

 

Your insight is appreciated.

 

- Nikko

[Dirial]

Hm. Placing models base-to-base could prove troublesome. Measuring should not be affected much.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with it in friendly games, but I cannot speak for tournaments.

[Bengt]

According to rules it's a no go. Obviously you could play it with your opponent's/tournament organiser's permission, since if you are in agreement you can disregard any and all rules.

 

You would need to have a way of distinguishing between a model being in BtB or just really close since there are a couple of abilities that only trigger on BtB. Apart from that the larger base will be detrimental to you, e.g. you can hug cover as closely.

[Fetid Strumpet]

In casual play it could be irritating, but I'd certainly not begrudge you being able to play it.

 

If in a tournament I was running I'd bar him from being used, mainly because things need to be standardized in a competitive environment. Such a situation creates unnecessary, if simple, additional thought processes for the opponent forcing them to constantly remember your base size is actually smaller than the footprint on the table. Small things like that can have unintended consequences when he opponent forgets briefly, or doesn't factor the smaller size into a decision they were going to make, and some games are won on small decisions, like sending a model around an a piece of terrain because they didn't register that their model could actually fit between yours and the terrain. Or forgetting in a game when measuring melee range and thinking you were actually engaged when you actually weren't, thus you don't drop a scheme marker when you could. 

[Ausplosions]

Agreed. Base size are a non-negotiable element.

[Jimbobovalsocks]

That sucks! Commiserations! You probably will need to re-base them though. Sidir is presumably on the wrong sized base too then?

[Jimbobovalsocks]

In the future, you can check the correct base size of a model, it's printed on their card and also on their entry in the big rulebook.

[Jimbobovalsocks]

How about if you just cut the edge off the base? Would that work? The base would then be 30mm in diameter. Wouldn't that be easier than re-basing your custom based model and tournament legal since the 'footprint' of the model would be 30mm?

[Adran]

I would agree that the wrong base size is not good in tournement settings, and may not be good in a friendly setting, depending on your friends.

 

Have you tried removing the base insert from the 40 mm base and just sticking it on top of the 30 mm base?

That would certainly work from a game point of view, it just might not meet your Asetic requirements as it would be slightly different from the rest of the crew.

[hiredgun]

removing models from bases is easy if you are careful , just  get an exacto knife blade between the feet of the model and the base.

[Dirial]

removing models from bases is easy if you are careful , just  get an exacto knife blade between the feet of the model and the base.

 

A week ago, I removed my Perdita from the base insert, and the insert from the base. Turns out, dropping a model from about 1,5 meters does the trick just fine.

[admanb]

In any close quarters situation the difference between 40mm and 30mm is significant enough that I'd ask you to use a proxy base, even in a casual game. 

[Nikko Andass]

Thanks to all for your comments.

 

Clearly the consensus is that the wrong sized base is a deal-breaker in all but the most casual of game settings. 

 

The only good news I have is that I was able to pry out the insert without any damage to the model. I plan on mounting it onto a 30mm base, which should resolve all gameplay issues. It's fugly, but functional. Ah, well ... *SIGH* 

 

Thanks again!

 

- N

[SpiralngCadavr]

You could just use the insert as the base and give it a strong varnish, or, depending on what it's like, try to bevel the edge to match the round edge of regular bases...

[Math Mathonwy]

To be fair, the game really isn't balanced to fine enough a point that a base size change really would change anything drastic. It's both a bonus and a weakness and even though those two don't quite cancel out for most models, the change in power level is miniscule if one model is on a base that's 10mm wrong.

Heck, Wyrd did the same with their special edition Hanged changing the base size somewhat randomly from 30mm to 40mm. More recently the same happened with the Guilty (the testing was done with them at 30mm but the release model will be on 40mm).

Of course since minis gaming is serious business most of your opponents probably won't be as lax as I am

[Hateful Darkblack]

Yeah, definitely not the same.

Your best bet is to remove the base insert from the base and stick it on a 30mm base.

Rough luck, man! Ouch!

[Ausplosions]

To be fair, the game really isn't balanced to fine enough a point that a base size change really would change anything drastic. 

 

 

Auras, pulses, engagement, passing models, everything is done off measurement. I would say that it is drastic. Otherwise why not just use any arbitrary base size for any model?

 

Also the hanged were 50mm. And an official and controversial change. So not the same thing as "oops wrong base".

[Math Mathonwy]

Auras, pulses, engagement, passing models, everything is done off measurement. I would say that it is drastic.

All of the things that you mentioned have both good and bad things attached to them based on base size.

Otherwise why not just use any arbitrary base size for any model?

Eh, this is a slippery slope argument. I'm saying that if you do this for one model in a force, it really won't impact the game in a meaningful way.

Also the hanged were 50mm. And an official and controversial change. So not the same thing as "oops wrong base".

Controversial because people think that the balance of the game somehow tilts because of it, not because it actually does tilt. Maybe Hanged were a bit better - so? They still weren't autoinclude nor were they silly good.

And the point about the Guilty stands. Also, Cojo and Barbaros both got bigger bases on release. All in all it seems to me that Wyrd is more pragmatic about this than the player base.

But, like I said, minis gaming is serious business! If we allow something like a different base size in a one-off case, next thing we know house rules will be introduced and cats and dogs are getting married and apocalypse happens

[Myyrä]

It's pretty clear that playing with a wrong sized base is against the rules. It's also quite unreasonable to blame someone for wanting to play the game according to rules.

I would let my opponent run a model with a wrong base, but you can't really blame anyone who wouldn't.

[Math Mathonwy]

It's pretty clear that playing with a wrong sized base is against the rules. It's also quite unreasonable to blame someone for wanting to play the game according to rules.

I would let my opponent run a model with a wrong base, but you can't really blame anyone who wouldn't.

You are correct.

[valhallan42nd]

Find a reasonable proxy, and put the proxy on a 30mm.

[Ausplosions]

The "mini games is serious business" quip is a little condescending and not needed.

Rules are part of the game for a reason. A model on an incorrect base size is a house rule and would not be acceptable in a tournament. It is really that simple.

[Math Mathonwy]

Rules are part of the game for a reason. A model on an incorrect base size is a house rule and would not be acceptable in a tournament. It is really that simple.

Plenty of tournaments allow for all sorts of things. The tournament organizer is the final arbiter. It really is that simple.

[Adran]

I've played plenty of games that have been won or lost by that difference in distances, be it as simple as not passing through a gap between 2 models, or the closeness of dropping a scheme marker. Whilst I'm happy to cope with that in a friendly 1 off game (although if I lost to a wrong sized model, I'd keep ribbing my opponent about it for a while), in a tournement situation when there is somethign that hangs on the result, its not really fair.

And asking your opponent to remember that this model is on the wrong sized base, and therefore we should ignore the black plastic for it, is soemthing that is easy to forget in a pressure situation.

[Ausplosions]

Plenty of tournaments allow for all sorts of things. The tournament organizer is the final arbiter. It really is that simple.

I very much doubt there has ever been a tournament with an "any base size you like" rule in place. Your argument makes little sense to me. Especially when coupled with the "stop taking games so serious" argument you have, as if those of us who play competitively within the framework of the rules are somehow impeding the enjoyment of others by expecting a competition to follow the rules?

[Math Mathonwy]

I very much doubt there has ever been a tournament with an "any base size you like" rule in place.

First of all, your claim was that tournaments never allow for any deviations from any of the rules, which I disputed. As for this specific example, howabout "Mr. Tournament Organizer sir, I'm a noob and accidentally put this model on the wrong-sized base. Can I still play?" If I were the tournament organizer, I would say "go for it" and I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be the only one.

Your argument makes little sense to me. Especially when coupled with the "stop taking games so serious" argument you have, as if those of us who play competitively within the framework of the rules are somehow impeding the enjoyment of others by expecting a competition to follow the rules?

It's more the fact that the game balance isn't swayed noticeably anywhere if you make a singular exception based on an honest mistake. And this particular issue is something that Wyrd itself has done on several occasions with their official rules just issuing errata without changing the models in any other way.

I'm not advocating that someone would be free to mount their Yin or Jaakuna Ubume on a 120mm base to get maximal gaming advantage from it. I'm talking about this specific case of an honest mistake of putting McCabe on foot on a 40mm base. I would allow it. If someone else wouldn't, that's their right, naturally. It is up to the tournament organizer (or the opponent in a friendly game).