Malifaux malaise

[OTP]

I am after a bit of help really,

I have got to the point where I can’t see the good in my masters / Crews whilst every opponent seems over powered. I don’t need there good points listing I can see them – the just don’t seem to stack up to what other crews bring to the table.

I’m not so much after “Raspy is awesome – she can dole out 20 dg in one ap” (which she can, I have wiped a crew out in one activation once – but doesn’t often) or “Ramos can summon 40 more ss of models in game”.

I have played Raspy a lot (and I think just need a break) Ramos and Marcus moderate amounts. Part of me is looking for a wholesale change I think.

That said the main issue:

Certainly locally all my regular opponents have figures me out – they know what I’m going to try and do. I however haven’t figure them out.

I can recognise I have some habits – I can be baited into to wasting ap/cards killing things, I like to paralyse or root models – sometimes an excellent idea other times I do it just because I know it annoys me and throw me off my game, and thus I hope it does the same.

People have been helping on twitter and one of them offered to expanded hence starting the post here.

How do I learn my opponents (I haven’t managed to in 2 years) and how do I change my game to force them to learn me again

And after playing arcanists for 2 years im toying with a break and looking at:

Sonnia/Hoff

Seamus/Nico

Leve

Brewmaster/AN other

Colette also come into mind

Many thanks!

[Math Mathonwy]

The important part, I feel, is to take a minute at the end of every round and identify opponent's key pieces that are going to score him VP or completely wreck your plans of scoring VP. If you don't know their schemes, try to analyze the situation and make an educated guess.

I feel that this is the key to Malifaux.

Now I just need to learn to heed it

[Adran]

A change is often a  good thing.

You could try that with a master/model pool change, or you could try that with a play style change (probably harder).

One way to change your style is to look at what you normally don't do, and go for that.

So for example, if you typically play Rasputina as a master that is great at using shattered heart to blow away everything, don't take shattered heart. Or take almost no frozen heart models.

You can also try and go for the schemes you don't normally go for. I've spent a lot of time recently listerning to Before we begin, and am noting that certain players have set go to schemes. Changing that will make a difference to how you play, and might make your tricks less known to your opponent.

It probably won't make your tricks seem that powerful to you.

You could try playing the crews that you think have the uber powerful tricks, and see how hard they are to get to work, Might not get to the route of the problem, but should help you work out how you can disrupt them, and they won't seem quite so awesome.

 

 

 

Or try and teach your opponents to play like you, then  at least you will know what they are likely to do...

[Barnaberible]

I think its hard to answer what your asking, I think the real quandary is you are in a position where you want to get to the next level of play, and if it isn't then its a hell of a good discussion anyway!

 

So, I am friends with Pete along with Mike (@oldmanmyke), Lee (Henchman Lee), Spooner (!) & Mark (@Gorillawizard) and we have some newer players in the groups as well, and apart from tournaments we generally play each other.

 

Now out of this group I think myself, Lee and Mike could, on our day, beat any other player in the UK tournament scene. I also think that you have have a shot at because, on your day, you are as good as any of us.

 

So what you are asking is how to make 'your day' more frequent?

 

So what do you do to get past this level? Change crews? Take different schemes? Read the rules over and over again until you are blind to find combos that no one knows about?

 

The answer is, I don't know because I don't do any of the above, although they all sound awesome.

 

What I can do is tell you how I play and see if it of any help (although it might be better in a blog post as it might rattle on a bit)

 

Now there are far more knowledgeable and far better players out there than me, and hopefully this thread will generate loads of ideas as this is a topic that I also want to keep an eye on, so when I've picked through all the ideas you'll be as good as I am now, and I'll still be able to beat ya

 

[MunkyMuddFace]

For a completely different shake-up, try taking a break from the standard strategies and play a set of Linked Story encounters. This will force you and your opponent out of your comfort zones on multiple levels:

 

- Strategies: They are asymmetrical, so you each will be thinking about how to accomplish your own goals, and may be harder to read what your opponent is doing. Also, most of them are very different than the standard strategies, so there is no benefit to taking the "go to" list for that strategy.

 

- Masters: Since a linked set locks you in with the same master for five games, you will eventually draw a strategy that is not ideal for your master. This is ok. This forces you to think outside the box, and can help you find model combinations that you may not have considered before. 

 

- Schemes: Story encounters do not use scheme pools and allow you to openly choose your schemes. However, with linked games, you can only select each scheme once. This really makes scheme selection interesting because it evolves as you play through a set. At the beginning, everything is wide open and it is harder to read your opponent. Near the end of a set, you are pushed to select a schemes that you may normally skip or are harder for your normal crew build to complete. This, in turn, pushes you to think outside the box on how to complete them, and you end up using a models you may not have previously considered.

[Joel]

I'm going to be approaching this from a different angle (and for the lay reader, let me know that I've faced the OP in several malifaux events to date and greatly enjoyed every one of them).

This isn't about the crew or the models you or your opponent is using, or even your skill at playing malifaux - that certainly isn't in doubt. I agree with Scott that, on your day, you can beat anyone. The reason you don't though, is that you beat yourself. Fixing this isn't about finding a new crew - that is papering over cracks IMO - it's about taking some time for some honest self-assessment and objectivity about how you play.

I've seen you across the tabletop and you can plan and execute with the best of them - my devoured pandora will attest to that! - but when something does not go according to plan, you struggle to cope.

When I see you do that, I've won - not because I've got better models or I'm in a better position, but because you will now allow emotion (be it positive or negative) to cloud your decision making process. Emotions are good for many things, but making strategic and tactical decisions is NOT one of them.

All your regular opponents know that all they have to do is put you on the back foot just once (and it mot not even be them doing it, it could just be some flips that didn't go your way that can do this - just luck rather than skill) and you will fall back into that emotional decision making state.

This is the thing you have to change, to become aware of and control. When you are making dispassionate decisions you are a scarily good opponent - you just need to be able to maintain the mental state regardless of how a game is going and see it though until the last activation of the last turn before allowing the emotion back in.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be passionate about your game or not have fun, just that if you want to be winning more games, your decisions need to be tactical and ruthless, rather than emotional from the first to the last.

As I said at the start, I've always enjoyed our games, and hanging out with you at events - so although this may come across as very personal, please don't take it as an attack or a bashing of any kind. It's objective critical advice drawing on my in-game observations.

You are a top bloke and only a couple of nudges from being a top player.

Joel

[OldManMyke]

Think we will talk about this on tonights Malifools recording. 

[Math Mathonwy]

It's objective critical advice drawing on my in-game observations.

The pedant in me wants to point out that it really is subjective and not objective advice

[OTP]

Thanks everyone for there thoughts so far - id hope this doesn't end the thread, as id still like  tips on the things already discussed.

 

Scott nailed the question, Joel nailed the answer. Scott please do write a blog it would be a great read.

 

The emotions are i think the big thing, and as Joel identified it both positive and negative ones "i have this won" and "i cant win from here". Id love to hear tips people have on controlling this it would help in Malifaux and frankly (if some what dramatically) in life.

 

Now i just need to figure out my opponents weaknesses - though id rather remove mine!

[Kadeton]

Sounds like the idea of 'tilt' in poker - you can Google up some interesting psychology about it.

[LunarSol]

Interesting enough. It's the topic of PPs Insider today:

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-10-1-2014

[Joel]

Great link!

[victorsyn]

I really can't speak to Malifuax as I am a newbie.  However in competitive pursuits, I have found shoring up your own weaknesses often exposes  your opponents flaws.  Or at least provides you more opportunity to exploit those flaws. 

[Soul Puppet]

A bit late to the party despite it being my suggestion to put a post up on here! Joel is spot on with what he's saying and you've pretty much admitted that you are prone to emotional decision making but I'll put up my views anyway...

 

Malifaux is a complex game that has many layers and is far far more than just the stats and abilities on the cards. A bit obvious I suppose but worth mentioning anyway.

 

So, you've picked a Faction and you've flipped for Deployment, Strategy and Schemes (or in a tournament these are often done in advance). So your first real choice is crew selection. You're looking for synergy between your models but more importantly you are looking for the best options to achieve the Strategy and Schemes on offer. True at this stage you don't usually know what your opponent will be taking but you can formulate ideas about which Schemes you are likely to pick. Some players have very fixed crew selections for particular Strategies and also certain Schemes (note that A Line In the Sand is always available and Breakthrough, Bodyguard, Assassinate and Protect Territory come up a lot more frequently than anything else so if you have options that can do these particular Schemes well...)

 

It's been mentioned already but taking a minute at the end or start of the turn to assess where the VPs are likely to be scored in the turn is a good habit to get into.

 

I tend to do this after the cards have been drawn and usually after Initiative has been determined as I have a better idea of what I'm likely to achieve. So, what can I do in the turn to score (or set up to score later)? What can I do to stop my opponent scoring (can I work out any hidden schemes at this point also)?

 

During the turn, think about things like: Which model to activate? Which enemy model to target (if they've already activated for example then they're usually no longer a threat this turn)? Is it really worth Cheating Fate or using a Soulstone?

 

An example of the last point: I had Joss left alive on a single wound. He had already reactivated so was useless to me and was certainly going to die to something in this turn. Luke used Pandora to Pacify him and I used a Stone to damage prevent. Why? To stop Pandora from getting her 4" push and being able to target another model in my crew. This in turn saved me a VP from Reckoning in the turn. Many players would probably have just let Joss die at that point but think about the possible conequences of your choices.

 

Something else I do is never give up. Sometimes things can seem hopeless but with a couple of savvy activations you can swing the game back in your favour.

 

I'm sure I have lots more but it's late here so I'll stop after this one last thing: psychology. Learn a poker face, you are much less likely to telegraph what you're up to but also making it hard for your opponent to guess what sort of hand you have (so don't sort your cards into order either). Play like everything that happens is what you are expecting and even planned for. Once you've mastered this, you can really change it up and keep your opponent guessing.

 

Another example of the last point: I idly wondered out loud to myself about should I use a Soustone to draw two cards or not. I didn't but my opponent assumed my cards weren't that great... I have two 13s and the Red Joker in hand!

 

Hope this helps a bit. Happy to try and answer specific questions.

 

Martin

[Dhampir]

Is winning the most important thing?

I play for the challenge of out manoeuvering my opponent, causing havok and chaos on the table, pulling off the most awesome blindsides and combos and for the social interation with other human beings. If I win great, if I find myself losing (or in a no win situation) change to a 'how do I distrupt my opponents plans the most' or go down swinging and try and kill as much as you can before the end of the game.

 

Worry less about the final destination and enjoy the journey.

[Barnaberible]

Here's some thoughts, in the form of a rambling blog post...

 

http://barneysstable.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/how-to-win-more-at-malifaux.html

[Bruglyother]

Most of what I have been reading here deals very well with the psychological end of things.  And from the discussion, it is easy to see that this is what the OP was looking for mostly.  But I do feel that most players do hit a plateau with certain crews if they play them regularly.  My only real advice for this is to break the habit.  Someone above mentioned trying out the schemes you don't normally choose, and that is great advice.  But trying a different crew is a good idea from time to time.  Preferably something completely different from what you normally play.  Playing a few games this way can open your eyes to new ways of seeing the board, which can often help your play with the original crew(s). 

[akaean]

Just a bit of general advice, not necessarily tailored to OP at all, but just in general for people looking to take their Malifaux game to the next level.  The biggest obstacle I've noticed people have is that they are unable to focus on scoring victory points and / or get distracted by killing models and losing their own.

 

I've found that the primary difference between players who lose often, and players who win often is that the winning players are razor focused on scoring as many victory points as possible as quickly as possible.  Sure that sounds obvious, and its easy to say.  But it is actually rather difficult in practice.  Especially for players moving into Malifaux from Warhammer or similar games where the focus really is on engaging and defeating your opponents army.  Sure, nobody will deny that it is *easier* to achieve your strategy and schemes when your opponent's crew is dead, but you don't often get victory points for actions spent murdering things.  

 

For instance, if I'm playing McMourning, and I have a chance to use my 0 action to push a model up 5 inches and place a scheme marker in prime range for plant explosives, or make a play for my opponent's Master or Henchmen with Expunge, its almost always a better choice to get the 3 Scheme points in the bag.  But its easy to be distracted by your opponent's master, especially one like Sonnia or Perdita, who may be carving chunks out of your crew, and you really want to see them dead to take pressure off of yourself.  

[MudgeBlack]

Great thread and some amazing insights.  This is much of what I have to work on myself.  Thank you all.

[OTP]

Exactly what I logged into say Mudge,

 

many thanks to everyone that responded - now to try and find some emotional tricks and practice practice practice i guess

[osoi]

I know I'm late to the party but I would definately say a lot of it comes down to your own psycology. have a look at what you want out of each game and define your objectives (these do not have to align with your strategy and schemes it could be I want to see if this combo is effective or if I try it what are the consequences). Once you have defined those objectives for the game just stay focussed on that.

 

I know that I generally try and win every game that I play so that means I focus on how do I acheive VP and/or deny my opponent VP in each given turn and only look at that. Last weekend I delibrately played myself a model down after my first activation but that netted me 3VP off the bat and I won the game based on that so even though every other turn it was a little more difficult I already had VP scored that my opponent couldnt get from me.

 

Lately all my hand draws have been diabolical and I do know how difficult it is to try and stay focussed on how to score VP when you have such a bad hand turn after turn and game after game, but I still manage to pull off wins from these. Its not due to any OP combinations or the like its about altering some strategy, take the defensive action to shore up your position, 1 you are dicarding a bad card from your hand and 2 because you have drawn junk the likelyhood of you getting above average cards in the duel is greater. Focus your actions for the same reason as above and look at doing things that you dont need cards to acheive ie drop a scheme marker, move about the board, lock someone in melee with you with your greater melee range while not actually attacking them. It can be unconventional and unexpected but it can also throw your opponent off. There a lot of different way to keep someone off balance in a game when you actually have your back up against the wall.

[Kadeton]

Lately all my hand draws have been diabolical and I do know how difficult it is to try and stay focussed on how to score VP when you have such a bad hand turn after turn and game after game, but I still manage to pull off wins from these.

In my own psychology, I find that drawing bad hands is actually immensely helpful to staying focused on the mission. When I draw a great hand, I tend to burn through those cards on spectacular but risky killing gambits, and lose sight of objectives while caught up in the thrill of the fight. When I have a terrible hand, I go into damage-control mode and focus on getting any points I can with the cards I have.

[necroon]

I have experienced this myself and have 2 pieces of advice for you. 

 

1) Go attend a tournament somewhere that is not at your LGS and don't necessarily have your regular crew go with you. I know this might sound mean at first but you can learn a lot by stepping out of your meta and that may help you "catch up". My LGS crew plays 4-5 as many times more than I do on average. To keep from getting frustrated by playing them so often (because they are all much more experienced than I) I find it really helps to go play some other people. Make some new friends. Learn what rules we have wrong. See some new crew compositions. 

 

2) HAVE FUN. Now don't stop reading this because it was the real trick for me. I got to a point where I considered myself "no longer learning" and as soon as I tried to take a truly competitive approach to Malifaux I started to lose pretty much every game I played. I'm not sure if it was because I was over-thinking things or what but I know I play well when I start each turn by telling myself (often aloud) "Play to the Strategies and Schemes" and "Have fun". It may sound silly but I get frustrated sometimes (okay - a lot) and a simply reminder to myself (or a coffee break before Turn 3 initiative) has really helped me improve my sportsmanship as a player and, with it, my overall experience. 

 

Try and keep in mind that Malifaux is a game of resource management. A hand of bad cards is just more excuse to take the Defensive action. If you really always draw bad cards try and bring models with Flurry or Rapid shot. 

 

Hope some of this helps and hang in there! I know Hobby Burnout can be rough and a bit disheartening but it will pass

[SurreyLee]

I think the poker phrase, going on tilt, which has been mentioned previously is one of the few reasons I struggle. I tend to win a few more than I lose, but I know after reviewing a game afterwards that it was my emotional take on the game after a particular action/event didn't go as planned I mentally struggled to focus.

We all have games where the cards don't work but these are genuinely few and far between. Statistically the flips generally balance out (I'm discounting a recent game where I flipped 4 black jokers in three rounds all at key points against a Somer crew, that was just freaky).

Review in game constantly. The key to keeping your balance is to know when you have lost it.