Bengt Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 In the fluff text for Johan on P211 he and the M&SU come across as bitter enemies. Yet rules wise he has the M&SU characteristic and has positive synergies with other M&SU models. So what gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 He doesn't toe the company line, but he still is a member, and gets along well with other members. That's how I read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 That always bothered me too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Yeah, it's the biggest fluff/crunch mismatch in the M2E transition, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledragon Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 The way I understand it, and I may have it completely wrong, is that he used to be a miner under the M&SU. Now he's one of those small independent operations miners that the guild and M&SU go take over through whatever means necessary if they're onto a good soulstones patch. Johan fights back though and usually wins, this then makes him a sort of hero with other miners under the M&SU. Still flimsy, but that's what I understand. A fluff story involving him in one of the chronicles that explains this for us would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I like to think he is a dissenting voice to Ramo's rule of the M&SU, like Kang in that he is seen as a Hero of the union to regular members, but the upper echelons have pushed him out due to his dislike of the leadership. That is not to say he is Pro-Guild in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I heard he used to be within the M&SU working as a miner / foundry worker and he and Kang were close. One day he lead a rebellion or riot which got him kicked out of the M&SU hence being Outcast. But now as he sells his services and expertise gained within the M&SU he will occasionally be hired by them for what ever reason. Perhaps I've gotten this completely wrong, just what I heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I heard that the Arcanists captured him and tried to replace his brain with a tiny mechanical spider in an attempt to control his thoughts. Now he's distrustful of the Arcanist organization, even though he's worried about his fellow miners succumbing to a similar fate. That's why he's trying to stage a full revolt to take back control of the M&SU from the Arcanists, who have shackled them (with brain-spiders) just as much as the Guild ever had. *serious slow nod of truth* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I love that this thread has now turned into campfire stories and rumours about Johan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Come on guys! How can you rumour about Johan? Johan is dead! He was replaced by his twin sister - Johana! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 That's just Johans ploy to take control of the Vikis crew, slowly assimilating characteristics required to become a sister. Next on his list is to replace Taelor, they have the same hammer after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 The enemy of my enemy? I've also never been entirely convinced everyone in a crew knows they're working for the crew at all. Especially in Zoraida and Gremlin crews. Or maybe that's just how I play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Especially Desperate Mercenaries in first edition. I mean, I guess they probably figured out who they were hired by in the frantic, painful seconds before they died... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malicte Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I've also never been entirely convinced everyone in a crew knows they're working. Especially in Gremlin crews. That seems more like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Especially Desperate Mercenaries in first edition. I mean, I guess they probably figured out who they were hired by in the frantic, painful seconds before they died... I've been writing a bunch of Iron Quill stories from the POV of a Desperate Mercenary. He keeps hopping between employers and often not knowing who he's working for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Yeah... definitely in the WTF crowd. My theory is that it's not animosity, so much as a petty squabble between Johann and the M&SU because that grunt got his name wrong (though the M&SU are convinced it was just a dodge to get out of paying his union dues) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Come on guys! How can you rumour about Johan? Johan is dead! He was replaced by his twin sister - Johana! Johana is an urban legend. has anyone seen her? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Filthy rumour spread by the M&SU scumbags Johan was really Johana in diguise all the time. Now she decides to come out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 I heard he used to be within the M&SU working as a miner / foundry worker and he and Kang were close. One day he lead a rebellion or riot which got him kicked out of the M&SU hence being Outcast. But now as he sells his services and expertise gained within the M&SU he will occasionally be hired by them for what ever reason. Perhaps I've gotten this completely wrong, just what I heard. But Johan is still M&SU, and Kang is no longer M&SU, meaning surely it is Kang, and not Johan who was kicked out of the Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 But Johan is still M&SU, and Kang is no longer M&SU, meaning surely it is Kang, and not Johan who was kicked out of the Union. Kang was kicked out for being socialist scum. Johan left, but since nobody ever heard from the people sent to collect his dues, it is assumed that he paid them and then bad things happen. or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaxiamander Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 By the first edition rulebook, it's noted that Johan takes the M&SU philosophy of anti-totalitarianism to an extreme, following only the tenets of the Union's charter, rather than the mandates of the Union leadership. He was even cheaper to hire if one's crew contained an M&SU member (from an ability named Dues Paid), and gained Ml and Rg (well, the M1E equivalent) when near an M&SU member (from an ability named Solidarity). He was a true believer in the Union, in the best possible way. The change in tack in the M2E book has always rubbed me the wrong way, as it suggests a near-total retconning of his character (unless what's written in M2E is the Union cover for his activities, which is not clear at all if it happens to be the case). He changed from a genuine true believer in the M&SU's charter, loyal to its goals but not its leadership, to a small-time prospector defending his claim against the M&SU troubleshooters, to the point of their relationship afterwards being described as an animosity. Yet, his rules still indicate a connection with the Union through his new Solidarity (giving a + to Attack Actions) and his healing action for M&SU named Open Revolt. Johan was, in many ways, one of the characters closest to being described as a hero in the 1st ed. setting, and it seems to have disappeared in his new version. Given the apparent rift between the M&SU and Johan shown in M2E, it's not clear how or why they'd ever hire him, while his mechanics are still built off of the "old Johan", so to speak, and thus quite lucrative to Arcanist players. Getting fluff justification for the change would be much appreciated (though not as appreciated as a reversal to the older version of the character, story-wise). As a side note, I'd love to see an eventual Upgrade for Johan (or for Johan and Kang, maybe even part of Ironsides' Crew) that interacts nicely with Union Miners. Just feels right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.