Leveticus Tactica: Burnt Offerings

[grave13]

You really won't need that much hitting power. I try to limit myself to two expensive models, and keep the rest of the crew reasonably cheap. You can always try Bete Noire and Killjoy for a fun "Surprise!" moment, but I'd generally recommend someone who will make a safe anchor at range, like Alyce.

Bete Noire is safe for an anchor isnt she? I dont think she will go hack n slash on your own crew like killjoy would lol.

[Kadeton]

Kind of, but she's prone to disappearing off the table when attacked, and she's always up in the thick of things. Alyce and Lazarus are very tough to remove and tend to stay more at range unless necessary, so they're "safer" in that regard.

[Patzer]

Kind of, but she's prone to disappearing off the table when attacked, and she's always up in the thick of things. Alyce and Lazarus are very tough to remove and tend to stay more at range unless necessary, so they're "safer" in that regard.

 

Ok I really want to go with the pariah of bone upgrade so I can field Bete Noire. But Im having a bit of a hard time figuring up a Leveticus crew with her in it at a 50ss level what would you suggest for a crew creation? I would like to include Rusty A, Ashes and Dust, Desolation Engine, Bete Noire. The huge problem is that these are expensive models and i feel that yes it is possible to include all of them in a crew but i also feel it is taking away an important element somwhere.

I mostly end up taking either three expensive models or two expensive models together with two in the 6-7 range; depending on strategy and scheme. Anchors are important, but they cannot fulfil every role in a crew. You will need to cache in on some runners and support models too.

 

Im still slightly puzzledvon how it is difficult to pull off a creation of a DE.. mean Levi's crew has multiple ways of producing abominations especially with Rusty A's gun. I do see a problem however in facing a crew that does not have a high model count, giving you less chances to create abominations.

Unless the enemy clusters, the Aboms will most likely be spread out across the board and having a hard time reaching each other due to their low walk. Leveticus can benefit from sacrificing them in order to either cycle cards or get a 10" move. Aboms will also a lot of the time pop right in the middle of enemy crew, where they will tie up and harass models, but will most likely die pretty quick. In addition, you cannot just summon Aboms since you need the right suit for it, which can be tricky at times. So there are some problems with summoning a DE in game. You will see as soon as you try it out a couple of times.

[grave13]

I mostly end up taking either three expensive models or two expensive models together with two in the 6-7 range; depending on strategy and scheme. Anchors are important, but they cannot fulfil every role in a crew. You will need to cache in on some runners and support models too.

Unless the enemy clusters, the Aboms will most likely be spread out across the board and having a hard time reaching each other due to their low walk. Leveticus can benefit from sacrificing them in order to either cycle cards or get a 10" move. Aboms will also a lot of the time pop right in the middle of enemy crew, where they will tie up and harass models, but will most likely die pretty quick. In addition, you cannot just summon Aboms since you need the right suit for it, which can be tricky at times. So there are some problems with summoning a DE in game. You will see as soon as you try it out a couple of times.

That makes sense. So primary objective should be running schems / strats and killing off anything that comes near waifs

[Trevelyan]

Hey, hey!  Welcome back, my man, your absence has been noted!

That is not dead, etc!

 

Mostly I've been biding time with other minis games while I wait for the 2E boxed sets for the masters that I want to run. A few of my regular opponants are in a similar situation. That siad the recent arrival of Through the Breach has people excited, so I'll probably be turning my attention towards Malifaux in the near future.

[senatorSmack]

Hey guys,

 

new to the wyrd board, been lurking awhile, have a leveticus tactica thought. 

 

If you were going to take the Metal Gamin/Teddy combo you could throw an aura modifier in there like Montresor with his creeping terror upgrade. The extra aura range would give Teddy a little more room to roam and Montresor's enemy movement tricks could also give him the impetus to not run around. Montresor's tricks would also help holding people up if Teddy needed to run off for an objective or to play the anchor role. Montressor could also be useful for protecting waifs.

It would be a big clump of important models for a Leveticus crew but it could be worth it, and sounds real fun to me.

Just a couple thoughts.

Love this thread!

[Kirby]

Is it just me, or do most Leveticus lists seem to be built from a few elite models rather than more numerous low-mid priced models?  Lazarus, Ashes & Dust, Ryle, Mech Rider, Rusty Alyce, and even some of the more off-shoot suggestions like Teddy are all 10+ stone models and it seems like most Leveticus crews would be out-activated early in the game until summons really hit the board.

 

Is it worthwhile to look into the less resource-intensive options like Friekorps trappers and the librarian in replacement of the elites?

[asrian]

Is it just me, or do most Leveticus lists seem to be built from a few elite models rather than more numerous low-mid priced models?  Lazarus, Ashes & Dust, Ryle, Mech Rider, Rusty Alyce, and even some of the more off-shoot suggestions like Teddy are all 10+ stone models and it seems like most Leveticus crews would be out-activated early in the game until summons really hit the board.

 

Is it worthwhile to look into the less resource-intensive options like Friekorps trappers and the librarian in replacement of the elites?

Well, you also have to factor in 2 Hollow Waifs for 0SS each. That's two more activations. Then, by the end of turn one Leve has activated, probably summoned a third waif who also gets to activate, that's another action. By Turn two Leve has attacked and more than likely killed 1 enemy model himself, maybe even two depending on placement/luck/aggressiveness, and may have even summoned an abom off of it, or Rusty Alyce has off a scrap marker. And it only gets worse from there.

[senatorSmack]

Is it just me, or do most Leveticus lists seem to be built from a few elite models rather than more numerous low-mid priced models?  Lazarus, Ashes & Dust, Ryle, Mech Rider, Rusty Alyce, and even some of the more off-shoot suggestions like Teddy are all 10+ stone models and it seems like most Leveticus crews would be out-activated early in the game until summons really hit the board.

 

Is it worthwhile to look into the less resource-intensive options like Friekorps trappers and the librarian in replacement of the elites?

 

This is also because of the anchor req for his hollow waif abilities. It's just plain better to get a big survivable model than it is a straight 6 cost model who is more likely to cause a delay/failure in getting Leveticus back on the table. Obviously there are some exceptions but I think between the anchor mechanic and the inherent activation advantage asrian mentioned I don't think a horde of little models is a great option for most strats/schemes with a levi crew.

 

Did you have any particular crew build ideas for the activation advantage strategy? 

[Adran]

Completely agree with Asirian. Leveticus and his waifs are 4 activations normally.

Also Ashes and Dust Can easily be 3 activations, and Rusty Alyce can happily re-activate an abomination at the cost of only 1 wound normally.

 

Its quite easy to get 8-10 activations despite buying 3 models at over 10 ss each

[asrian]

Completely agree with Asirian. Leveticus and his waifs are 4 activations normally.

Also Ashes and Dust Can easily be 3 activations, and Rusty Alyce can happily re-activate an abomination at the cost of only 1 wound normally.

 

Its quite easy to get 8-10 activations despite buying 3 models at over 10 ss each

Just as an example, a quick B.S. crew list to illustrate Adran's point:

 

Outcasts Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Leveticus -- 5 Pool

 +Desolate Soul [2]

 +From Ash [2]

 

Hollow Waif X 2 [0]

Abomination [4]

Abomination [4]

Ashes And Dust [13]

Lazarus [10]

Rusty Alyce [10]

 +From the Aether [2]

That's 8 models/activations. Leve summons a 3rd Waif, that's 9. Alyce reactivates something, doesn't matter for the discussion, that's 10 activations. If Leve decides instead not to summon a Waif (back down to 9 activations with the reactivate) and instead sacrificed Ashes and Dust after it went, you would then have Ashes, and then Dust Activate which would take you to 11 Activations. If Alyce reactivated a 2nd model, 12 Activations.

I'm not saying this is an optimal set up, uses of AP, or a decent crew for a given Strat/Scheme pool, but merely an example to illustrate that despite having three high cost models, the Leve crew is still on equal footing with most any other crew it would face, and this is before any Aboms are summoned into the game.

[Kirby]

Thanks for the responses!  And no, I didn't have any particular build ideas relying on a large number of activations.  It was more that when I discussed having both Ryle and Lazarus in a crew together along with another big model, some other players expressed concern that I was investing too much in elite models and would get out-activated and suffer in VP situations.

[Hateful Darkblack]

I often play Levy with three big models and then maybe a pair of Abominations for cards and activations.

Sometimes (especially if Murder Protege is on the table, or the Strat is Recon) I'll substitute two medium models instead. A Belle and a Doxy work wonders together. Or two Soulstone Miners.

The thing you need for sure is three 6+ ss models. Making them durable is better. Making them durable summoners (like A+D or Mech Rider) is totally golden.

[senatorSmack]

Thanks for the responses!  And no, I didn't have any particular build ideas relying on a large number of activations.  It was more that when I discussed having both Ryle and Lazarus in a crew together along with another big model, some other players expressed concern that I was investing too much in elite models and would get out-activated and suffer in VP situations.

 

One of the main things to always remember with malifaux is that your crew selection follows the strategies and schemes. Yes, sometimes it's not optimal to field just big models, sometimes it's great.

 

When you need options (if you don't want to rework the whole list) it's not hard at all to replace a 10 ss model with a pair of 5 ss necropunk objective runners, or even cheaper 4 ss watchers. Of course if you have enough damage potential, high mobility/move tricks, reactivation tricks, or the various summoning upgrades you also could not need small objective runners in your initial list. What you should take also entirely depends on the crew you're fighting against.

 

It's all about understanding what you're going to do and making your selections and play strategy fit the strats/schemes to get more VP than the other guy. I know that sounds self-explanatory but I think players tend to look for perfect solutions and that is a weakness in this game. In my experience there are no perfect lists in malifaux.

[senatorSmack]

A friend of mine brought up the option to run flesh constructs as anchors with pariah of iron. They are cheap for what they are, and could potentially work well as anchors. If you can get the opposing crew to use up their hand some way you also could get a sizable extra activation advantage.

 

I was looking at flesh constructs + carrion effigy with some other standard levi crew options but haven't found any discussion on that style of crew build. Has anyone here run our resident frankenstein's monsters with leveticus? 

[Hateful Darkblack]

Yeah, Flesh Constructs always seemed like a good possibility, but I haven't tried them. They seem like they'd be great for Strats where you want to hold a position (like Turf War and Extraction). And you can take them with either Pariah!

 

I haven't really thought about bringing in the Carrion Effigy before. I love the Shadowy Effigy and Hodgepodge Effigy with Levy, and keep almost using the Arcane Effigy, too.

[senatorSmack]

Carrion Effigy is good with Flesh Construct for a couple reasons, first, unlike the levi core group, it can actually use the extra corpse counters the Constructs drop when they die to heal whatever, and second cheating out a low attack with a bunch of crows can add more poison-based regen to a flesh construct. Don't think it would be a common occurrence but it could come in handy on occassion. Seems like an interesting build, I'm tempted to find out.

[Kalkris]

The way I see that, Mr. Senator (heh), is that it is rather self-contained - unless a scheme really calls for a Flesh Construct and a Carrion Effigy, I'd think you're better off in hiring Lazarus if you haven't already, or Teddy if you can afford to pay another couple of soulstones. I suppose if you are facing Rezzers (or if you're facing Outcasts and KNOW it's either a mirror match or Jack Daw, or sometimes Hamelin), that it is rather justifiable to bring along a Carrion Effigy to effectively gobble up their ammo, though, so thankfully you will know the foe's faction before hiring anyway.

 

~Lil Kalki

[senatorSmack]

The way I see that, Mr. Senator (heh), is that it is rather self-contained - unless a scheme really calls for a Flesh Construct and a Carrion Effigy, I'd think you're better off in hiring Lazarus if you haven't already, or Teddy if you can afford to pay another couple of soulstones. I suppose if you are facing Rezzers (or if you're facing Outcasts and KNOW it's either a mirror match or Jack Daw, or sometimes Hamelin), that it is rather justifiable to bring along a Carrion Effigy to effectively gobble up their ammo, though, so thankfully you will know the foe's faction before hiring anyway.

 

~Lil Kalki

 

Oh I totally agree, it isn't a swiss army knife for sure, it's more like a folding corkscrew. Good points on the rezzer ammo. I was thinking the main pros for the Flesh Construct / Carrion Effigy team up are activation, durability, and ss cost but the effigy could really shine for stunting rezzer summoning (looking at you Nicodem.) Though I do like the theme with levi too so that's a plus for me.

[Patzer]

By late May everyone can get a hold of Ryle and a Mechanical Rider. Go on and buy a blister of Metal Gamins and get them ready before then. #filthiscoming

[zFiend]

#filthiscoming

Hahahahaha. Solid gold.

[Kalkris]

So, I just had my first game with Leveticus against my foe's first game with The Dreamer.

 

The strategy was Stake a Claim, and the schemes taken were:

Me: Revealed Breakthrough, Unrevealed Deliver a Message

Foe: Revealed Murder Protege, Unrevealed Breakthrough

The other irrelevant schemes were Protect Territory and the obligatory Line in the Sand.

 

The game ended in a tie with all schemes being completed to full. I got 2 points for SaC and my opponent got 1.

 

The lists looked something like the following:

 

Me:

Leveticus (6 pool)

*Pariah of Iron

*From Ash

*To the Earth Return

Rusty Alice

*Desolate Soul

Lazarus

Soulstone Miner

Necropunk x2

Hodgepodge Effigy

Hollow Waif x2

 

Foe:

Dreamer (4 pool)

*On Dreaming Wings

*Tantrum

*Restless Dreams

Daydream x1

Alp x3

Lelu

Lilitu

Teddy

Coppelius

 

I felt like fate itself was conspiring against me that game from the moment Stake a Claim was flipped. Murder Protege happened and that was hellish in its own right. My opponent bum-rushed Lazarus with Teddy, and its Impossible to Wound made things such a pain for me. Leve attacked Teddy a whopping 9-10 times and never got him below 6 wounds, even having Channeled each Ml attack and Face of Death'd at least twice for 3 cards apiece (Face of Death is mostly a trap, IMHO, as you could really use those cards when being slapped in the face multiple times by countless Alps and a ticked-off Lelu on the other end of the board). I decided to Unmaking Teddy before booking it, after both of my higher-end Anchors were slaughtered (one by Teddy - Lazarus, netting my foe Murder Protege and the other one Alice by way of Lelu [with an assist by Lilitu, of course] during Turn 2!!!) - I hit my Hodgepodge and a Waif once each and nothing came of the resulting Ml attack from either except paralysis. Leve did a grand total of maybe 8-9 damage cumulatively to that one Teddy (6 of which was regenerated) and killed an Alp and that was it for him. I didn't even manage to summon any Abominations (granted, I could have bumped a stone before killing that Alp and gotten one, but that was a misplay on my part).

 

Meanwhile, the Soulstone Miner and Necropunks were doing splendidly at objective running. I do like them a ton. They are good models for the non-killy strategies.

 

Once Leve got far enough away from Teddy, though, things were more doable. Leve seems competent even without his cycles, which was very counterpoint to everything I have heard here in this thread. It was surreal keeping Leve alive without the use of Waifs.

 

I flipped the Black Joker at all the wrong times in this game, on every turn. Mostly it was on damage from Leve to Teddy, one was on defense - I think for Lazarus, and the last one of five was a Necropunk attempting to Leap. I don't know how my luck was that horrible this game, but suffice it to say, it was utter crap for me.

 

That said, with my rock-bottom luck and complete lack of Leve games under my belt (either with or against), I squeaked out 7 VP and tied my opponent. Had I revealed Deliver a Message I feel I would have not gotten it at all given Dreamer's natural mobility, so I don't think keeping it hidden was a misplay, and I was fine with Breakthrough as well. I truly believe that playing with 2 misplays and crud luck, getting such a score (even neglecting that I merely tied) proves that Leve is great even at his worst.

 

All in all though, I had a pretty fun time fielding him in his premiere game. I just wish my luck was better so I could have maybe denied my opponent some VP (as scoring more of my own VP was not much of an option in the long run).

 

~Lil Kalki

[Kadeton]

Yeah, Teddies are a bit of a bastard for Levy to deal with. I try to take them out with Alyce on full-auto instead, if possible.

 

Well done on squeaking out the draw under the shadow of horrible luck!

 

(I really like to card-cycle until I have the Black Joker in hand if my opponent gives me the time to do it - everything's way more reliable then.)

[Patzer]

What do you think is Leveticus biggest weakness? It is something I have been pondering for a while, and would love to hear some thoughts on.

[Kadeton]

Anything that can reach or get a bead on a Waif with enough damage to kill it is a problem. Being out-activated makes him sad, but thankfully it rarely happens. Hitting him hard before he activates basically neuters him for a turn.

 

I think to combat Levy effectively, you need to be willing to make sacrifices (much like dealing with Viktoria). He's going to kill something (probably several somethings) but that's pretty much it - if you can account for the losses, you can play around him. Killing him (rather than letting him sacrifice himself) or one of his Waifs will make him more cautious, but most people never make the attempt because "It's not worth the effort."

 

(I actually think his biggest weakness is "Kill-More syndrome" - it's very easy, playing Levy, to just go on a rampage and forget to pursue objectives.)