Jordon

Whoops, double post

I mainly play arcanists and of those I would say Kaeris and Ironsides tend to be the ones that change the most from game to game. Kaeris has two limited upgrades that completely change her role from scheme spam to healer. She's reasonably tanks with her Df6 and armour+1. She's one of the most mobile masters in the whole game and can play from range or into the frey. She also has some limited summoning as well as board control with her pyre markers. Her (0) to grab and drop is truly an amazing ability as it can be both disruptive and devastating. Her Immolate attack is great at singling out a model thats on fire doing very accurate reliable damage whereas her Accelerant does an un-challanged small amount of damage to a huge area as long as they are on fire. Lastly her Flaming Halo simply sets things on fire, which is the source of all of her other abilities - whether its support or attack. It also gets around a lot of pesky abilities that trigger off of damage and allow stacking damage to help get around armour. Ironsides on the other hand is little more complicated. Her card would lead you to believe she's a brawler. While she certainly can dish out the damage if you manage your resources correctly, her main strength is her board control as well as passive support ability Hand Picked Men. You can play her aggressively or supportive and have success either way. I often switch her up on the fly, starting off more supportive, building up adrenaline and then unleashing her in the later turns. She also has a very great but often overlooked upgrade that gives her a ranged attack that gives out high amounts of burning that also ignores cover, which is great when playing her in more of a supportive role. Ironside's real strength lies with her crew though. You'll almost always be playing her in theme as her passive buff is bonkers good. The M&SU are already a tough hard hitting bunch, and added positives to both attack and damage brings them over the top, allowing them to threat models far exceeding their own SS cost. I also have a feeling that the new M&SU Amina henchmen will quickly become a staple for Ironsides as well.

Just had my first outing with Sandeep last night. I played against Nellie in a Guard the Stash strategy. The schemes were neutralize the leader, undercover entourage, leave your mark and take prisoner. We both ended up taking undercover entourage and leave your mark. My list consisted of the following Sandeep - Commands upgrade, Academic upgrade, Incorporeal upgrade Kudra w/ gamin upgrade Valedictorian 3x Ox Mages Sanctioned Spellcaster Firestarter w/ warding runes The game ended in a draw as neither of us could prevent the other from scoring. Once I got the firestarter on top of of a building in the enemy deployment zone, he stayed there scoring me undercover encourage and leave your mark. Having warding runes meant he could go reckless and retain his Wds. He scored me all my scheme points but it was a bit risky investing everything into a relatively weak model but luckily Sandeep was able to keep his crew occupied while the firestarter snuck by. We mostly stumbled through it, making lots of mistakes I'm sure. I felt like my best models were definitely the mages. Their ability to kill/push/slow models meant that they absolutely controlled the field. With their new upgrade, they can withstand a punch at least somewhat competently, especially for a now 5ss model. The sanctioned was ace particularly because of his no push buff, but I also got some decent milage from his no charge trigger. Sandeep himself didn't really end up doing too much. I did manage to summon Banasuva but placed him terribly next to an unactivated Johan who activated and killed him in a single activation. I do think you'll need to be careful when placing him but otherwise it was my fault. Overall I think it's somewhat of a bad match for this list as Nellie's ability to hold off activations really shut down all the arcane shield's this crew had. I also noticed that the crew can be really mask starved as it seems like most of Sandeep's abilities and triggers rely on them. I still need to figure out how best to use Kudra as she didn't really end up doing a whole lot this game. The Valedictorian is totally legit and was able to handle a great deal of punishment (ridiculously so with incorporeal). I'd like to try out Amina next time to see what she brings to the table.

Just to clarify, are you talking about Union Miners or Soulstone Miners as they are both "M&SU Miners" technically.

Also lets not forget that minor illusion can be a real dirty ability. Being able to drop these forrest markers over other markers such as scheme/squat markers effectively prevents the opponent from tampering with them. Even when used in more typical ways they can be used to provide cover to friendlies, block LOS from key threats and otherwise slow a model down. The fact that they stay in play even if Kudra dies is just awesome too.

Yeah I think each faction has their henchmen in which all other henchmen are compared. Fransisco, Cassandra and Sensei Yu to name a few off the top of my head. Arcanists have the luxury of having more than a few rock solid henchmen to choose from so it can be hard deciding where to spend your stones. This wave is actually a bit odd for us as we got 7 new models and three of them are henchmen and I'm pretty excited to try all of them. It seems like they were very careful in trying to give us models that don't try and compete directly with our other henchmen. Each henchmen brings something new which I think is more important than simply making them comparable to our current roster. Amina is a heavy support/denial henchmen which is a very welcome breath of fresh air and I believe will be a staple with Ironsides. If you manage your resources correctly with her you can pull of a multitude of AP which is a pretty unique mechanic for us. She's also academic and i'm not sure how relevant that will be yet. Carlos is basically a 10ss model (9 with Colette!) as his upgrade is basically mandatory it's so good. I see him as a model that will be a tarpit and occasionally a heavy hitter. He's obviously geared towards Kaeris given his affinity to being on fire, but he actually seems pretty self sufficient. I feel like he's got some depth and it'll take a while to figure out how best to use him. He's also a showgirl which again I don't know how relevant that will actually be. Finally we have Kudra. I think her cost is her key feature, competing mostly with the firestarter. She seems like a solid all rounder, which can be difficult to compare with other more specialized models. She's fast, decently hitty, reasonably survivable and very resource friendly. Minor illusion is also pretty decent support ability even if it's only one marker. I'm not sure how much game she'll have outside of Sandeep but she definitely seems like a solid investment at 7ss.

I also feel like Banasuva with +2 armour will definitely be a thing.

I actually think an all academic list is more viable than people give it credit. They have plenty of hitting power and board control and they only major weakness I can see amongst most of the academics is their speed. Luckily Sandeep has his own solution to that between incorporeal and his (0) to leap. In terms of actually interactions, gamin make wonderful scheme runners (especially with the proper upgrades) and lets not forget Sandeep himself can be a one man show with his potential 4AP and essentially free interact action. That means if your positioned properly and utilize all his AP, he can actually drop 3 markers on a given turn. I just feel like Sandeep goes a long way in shoring up many of the potential weaknesses of an all academic list.

Yeah Viks are not what you want to see when playing Ironsides. One good thing however is that Toni's Df trigger can actually be a serious threat to the Viks since they have such low Wds and can actually be quite a deterrent. Otherwise I find that models I cannot punch to death tend to burn just fine. Three successful bottle hits can down a Vik without H2K and even with SS prevention, she's not likely to live.

I would highly recommend to get yourself the arcanist general upgrades as there are some really great includes for Mei. She's got decent upgrades herself, but I don't think they're mandatory and by switching upgrades you can really add a lot more flexibility in how you play Mei. My personal favourites would be imbued protection (bumping her to Df7 which helps her Df trigger and also giving her a once per game shrug 2 damage), recharge soulstone (given how often she wades into enemies killing low SS models by the droves, it really helps when she can get soulstones from those kills), seize the day (gaining positives to initiative can be huge for Mei) and lastly arcane reservoir to gain +1 card to your hand every turn. Imbued energies is also amazing and can speed up your whole crew, almost guaranteeing the alpha strike. As for models, I would actually recommend the Arcane Emissary because it's a amazing model on its own, but it offers some huge benefits to Mei herself.

In terms of mercenaries, here are some models to think about. Blood wretch can use their (1) to give them +1 damage and allow them to draw two cards and discard one. This is actually pretty sweet with arcane storm and it also helps that the watch heals overtime it kills an enemy. Hans and the freikorpsmen can reference the field guide to gain suits but it eats up a (0). Aionus in a academic heavy list can allow a model to discard a card to gain fast. This can be used with Sandeep's ability to suffer damage and draw a card. Essentially allowing Sandeep to take a point of damage to give someone fast. Gracie has eat your fill which can pair nicely with arcane storm. Bishop can just add any suit to all of his duels making him a great early beacon adopter. Since he's swift it could let him pull in a model using beacon and letting him still flurry on it.

The only other somewhat useful tactic in favour of the golem is that he makes a decent blast battery for Raspy. Since he has armour +2 and abysmal defence, she can quite easily get to a strait or positive flip when targeting him with her decembers curse without having to burn her hand, saving those high cards to generate blasts. It still does significant damage to the golem, but he can at least take a few hits this way before going down - in which case he explodes doing more potential damage. I've used him this way before but it's not what I would consider every game tactics. It's really only good if there are lots of models around the golem but are not engaged with it.

Basically any model with natural abilities will make for interesting hires. Here are a few more to think about Cerberus three headed rule will work with arcane storm (I don't really see this as a great option though) Steam arachnid swarm have strength in numbers to allow them to gain positives to damage for arcane storm Johan can gain positives to attack when next to M&SU Large arachnid using Temporary limb can gain positives to all flips making any beacon ability easier to use Soulstone miner can use soulstones and thus can burn a stone to trigger any ability, or gain the suit to leap since it's a minion Blessed and Hoarcat can use "eat your fill" when using arcane storm Mobile toolkit gives positives to damage on any construct to then use arcane storm

I actually think the mech rider will be a solid inclusion for Sandeep (even more so than in most other lists) mainly because she gains automatic tomes after the first turn meaning she can auto trigger student of all when using beacon. Also she might be a good candidate for well rehearsed as once she charges someone she can use her trigger to drop scheme markers and push away. Imagine charging 10" pushing 4" from her trigger (turn 3 or later) and then use her (0) to push even further. Thats a massive hit and run. Also Sandeep ability to give a model incorporeal can shore up one of the biggest weaknesses of the riders with their early game vulnerability. Another interesting interaction is the captain/snowstorm who can give out bulletproof. Combined with arcane shield, you can effectively become immune to min damage 2 shooting attacks. This is somewhat situational but could come in handy, especially on someone like Sandeep with his I2W. Another odd setup is with union miners. Since they gain positives to damage flips when attacking models next to M&SU, they can use this ability with arcane storm giving them a very respectable once per turn attack. Also gunsmiths who can discard a card to gain suits can quite effectively utilize beacon and all of its triggers (but uses up a (0)) or again automatically trigger student of all if you discard a tome. Not to mention all the burning synergy with fire gamin and banasuva.

I just thought of something but I'd need a verification on the wording to be certain. With the new blade and claw upgrade it states that you place a scheme marker in base contact with the model before moving it. I wonder if you can squeeze a little extra synergy from the ability if you have someone with the new well rehearsed upgrade close by to push 2" before having to discard the marker? Or do you have to resolve the B&C action completely before being able to push with WR?

I just recently bought the union miner box and have assembled them. As I built them however, I found myself wondering when I would actually put them into a list? Every time I look at their card I just sort of feel a bit underwhelmed. Their damage output is poor and even with the positives to damage they end up more or less average. They're not particularly durable, especially with our excellent 4ss options in metal gamin and molemen. In terms of survivability and hitting power, they seem to be completely outdone by rail workers, who ironically synergies better with the M&SU upgrade (bleeding edge tech) as well as most other masters baring Ironsides. Even with Ironsides, I sort of think they fall short given the extra stone buys you soulstone miner or large arachnid. So I'm thinking the real reason you take them is for false claim? I guess my question is when is this power worth hiring the miners? Is there a particular set of schemes that this model can accomplish better than others? For the extra stone you can hire a soulstone miner, who I think is another excellent schemer that is actually decently survivable and hitty. Or for a point less, the steam arachnid and molemen. Has anyone had some experience with these models that they would care to share?

I think Raspy has the luxury of having some of the best in-theme options. Literally anything with frozen heart baring the golem is a solid inclusion. MVP's would probably go to silent ones and acolytes though. I also think you'll see the emissary more once people get it into their collection.

It does require some setup while also dictating your hiring pool somewhat. I think it's meant to promote some diversity into what can otherwise be a "standard" list. It also gives an indirect boost to the scorpius and any other models with both beast and construct characteristics (poison gamin?). Personally I'm more excited for what it can do for the ice golem and blessed. God knows the golem can definitely benefit from the boost in speed (while also being a good carrier for the upgrade itself)

Kudra sounds decent enough for a 7ss model. Arcanists have plenty of good high cost beaters so i'm happy to see another cheap option. I'm not quite sure what role she'll fill but she looks like she'd make a decent scheme runner / scheme runner assassin. I am a little concerned with the poison gamin. They barely seem to be on par with ice gamin who under BOW has a 2/4/5 damage with the same melee value, wounds and even has a ranged attack. Also not requiring a pre-existing condition in order to maximize damage and relying on poison itself as a form of damage. Perhaps in a fully themed poison crew it may perform better but I can't help but feel a little underwhelmed upon first impressions.

It also doesn't help that Raspy keeps getting great models released for her (not a complaint). I just find it difficult to justify the golem when you could instead hire another acolyte, silent one, or now ice dancer and emissary. She has so many models that work amazing well with her and so it seems less excusable to find points to hire the golem. It's just unfortunate because the golem looks so awesome. I guess using it as proxy for the emissary as mentioned above would still make sense since the bull doesn't really fit thematically.

Personally, I feel like the emissary has made the ice golem almost completely irrelevant. It almost hits as hard, is more survivable, waaaay faster and is the best ice mirror Raspy has access too. It also comes with a real nifty ability to pull other frozen heart models from engagement so they can be used as mirrors (or to get Raspy herself out of an engagement). Df2 is just abysmal and the +2 armour doesn't properly compensate for this drawback. Just compare it to Izamu who I think is a comparable model in terms of abilities and role. I feel like the golem should be sporting something in the neighbourhood of 12-13 Wds in order for it to compensate for that Df2. Even lowly 4ss models are often hitting it frequently enough make them a serious threat in number. I feel like he needs some help Now that being said, I think the new construct/beast upgrade available can help out with the golems speed if being run in a list with the blessed. I've yet to test it out to see if it's more work than it's worth, or if it's simply better to run the emissary, but it's worth testing.

Yep. Can someone with the book clarify if it allows all Academics to ignore randomization, or if it allows Academics to ignore randomization when shooting into an engagement involving another Academic?

I think scheme pools with headhunter and hunting party will be great inclusions for the bears as they take a lot of effort to bring down and can kill a model, drop a head and push into base contact with it to grab it with any available AP/next activation. I also feel like the 8ss spot is relatively unclaimed and so I don't feel like it's stepping on too many toes in that regard. Also the new beast/construct upgrade will compliment this model a great deal allowing it to use it's high charge early on and help mitigate potential range damage. In terms of master specific synergy, Marcus is the obvious choice as a great Defend Me target. Otherwise Raspy can get some decent milage from a high Wd model, especially when tagged with Touch of December for the +2 armour and the ability to push out of combat to free it up as a mirror. A more specific combo would be with Kaeris' arcane emissary as it allows the bear to take Wds to add burning, which in turn can bring it into Frenzy range.

I sort of feel like some of the liabilities of the mages are going to be mitigated greatly with Sandeep, especially with their melee problem. I'm still not sure you'll always want to run 3 of them, but I also don't think it would necessarily be a bad option in certain situations. The mages can shoot into an engagement without randomizing and using their wind blast to push the enemy away. Otherwise Sandeep (or someone using beacon) can pull them out of danger using his push action. Or another alternative could be to leap away via beacon if you have the appropriate card. I also have no clue how the whole incorporeal power works, but I would imagine stacking it with arcane shield would be a huge boost in survivability if the mages can be legal targets that is.

I just finished listening to the episode and I have to admit I was surprised how underwhelmed they seemed to be. I think Sandeep will absolutely be talked about in a years time and I think he's one of those onion masters that has deep layers to him that can only be explored slowly. Is he going to de-throne Colette? Probably not, but considering she's considered one of if not the (especially since the Levi update) most powerful master in the game, I think it's a bit of an unfair comparison. I was especially shocked on how little they valued the academic upgrades. People loose their mind over rush of magic and Sandeep can basically benefit from this multiple times a turn. Imagine burning a 1 or 2 card to furious cast and in the process draw some high card in return. This combo's especially well given that he's going be hunting for those 12's to summon banasuva or those mask suits for his leaping (0) actions. Almost every single academic has some sort of discard effect which will make running an academic heavy list actually viable in my opinion. I also disagree that the Ox Mages are bad models. They are extremely potent with Ironsides and I think they'll be even better with Sandeep. Making them 5ss by hiring three is excellent. I can't really think of many 5ss options that can dish out the damage that these guys are capable of. Also worth pointing out that by standing near other academics they not only get their triggers, but they also automatically trigger Sandeep's "student of all" ability, which will give Sandeep a free AP. I'm not sure about the wording on academic upgrade, but does the discard to give Sandeep an extra AP benefit from his upgrade ability? If so, that's a whole lot of synergy. I also wonder about the effectiveness of Kadru, but one thing I might have missed was her point cost. Those abilities might not be anything crazy for a 10ss model, but on a 7-8ss model, there might be some merit.