EntrepeNinja

I think the main argument here is: Does the utility that McMourning has outweigh extra punch from Lady J's sword? If you're looking for crew synergy? Serious killing power? Probably J. Her Inspiring swordplay can hand out a lot of bonuses if positioned correctly, and the amount of damage she can do with the accuracy of Ml7 and a positive twist w/out charge just makes her a plane better hitter. McMourning (when he's in his guild persona) is a) less of a beatstick than lady J. arguably less of a frontline master than ressur McMourning, and c) has a cartload more tricks and utility. Partially by using his poison on himself to give him more movement. Partially because his AP can hand out AP like a boss. Partially because he allows Nurses to be hired, and they're a well known control piece. Can he kill things? Absolutely. Can he kill as fast as Lady J? Arguably yes. It's just harder/takes more resources. I also think that given the right circumstances, he's a lot tankier than Justice- his ability to heal while damaging is great. Her's is an action you have to take, his is secondary but requires him to do damage, so it can be thwarted. I fall on the side of the McMourning camp. But I can see where Lady Justice falls in the pecking order, and it's not as low as people think. Played correctly, she's as much assassin as Viks or Misaki. Charging through trees is great. Onslaught? Choice. Potential min damage 6? Why not. Why- I once saw her kill Sebastian, and McMourning in one turn, heal half her wounds, get lured back up the table with Stand for Judgment, then charge and kill Seamus the next turn. (It was a double match... naturally). Could McMourning and a bell have done that? Probably not. His "uber DPS" moves take a lot of setup. ENinja P.S. I feel like it should be said that there are some potentially very high damage setups with McMourning- for instance plastic Surgery and spamming rancid transplant into expunge can cause a ton of damage to a ton of people and setup a HUGE expunge. Or bringing lawyers and sebastian to go for a large scale aoe poison bubble fest, then potentially luring with a Performer to get the expunge off on your high priority target can make for some crazy numbers. It just takes so much more effort to do it with Doug. But I feel the other things he brings (injection. Precision. Durability. Nurses.) make the effort worthwhile. PPS Standard Malifaux Crew/Master disclaimer- All opinions stated are subject to discrection based on the following- playstyle, aesthetic choices, scheme and strat pool, opponent's declared faction, and table set up.

She didn't look that dead to me. ... And she took the lead. ENinja

You know- I ran my first Lynch game last week. It went horribly for a number of reasons, but I didn't have beckoners to bring things forward, or draw things in. That might've helped on of my problems- getting trenched in with a large unit in a doorway, and potentially another one (I had pushed Lynch too far forward to try and net round two strat point....) I could have potentially pulled the threat out to lessen his effect, or yanked him back. I'll have to remember the "Belle" tactics. (Having only limited belle experience, I don't have a lot of those tactics in my mindset) ENinja

Whelp. Looks like I'm buying that.

Well, yes and no. At least the way I read it. They made it so "any cards discarded during this action are shuffled back into the deck", so you can't mulligan three aces, draw three cards, and get the three aces back (as they would've been discarded outside of lynch's turn). I don't think anything blocks him from taking the ability, tho. In fact, that's a great way to take a red joker from hand and make it live again.

I wish there was a way to throw an upgrade on a wastrel in Lynch crew... being able to take bravado, ditch an ace for a suit, AND draw a card would be awesome. Which is probably why he can't do that.

@Cunningstunt You're totally right. But they can still get the rapid fire for free with an ace on their turn. Perhaps BtS is just an added bonus. Which is still awesome. @D_Acolyte RE: Addict Fair enough. I guess I figured Huggy could snap it on them early in an activation, then benefit from it. Freeing up a stone is probably pretty useful.

Awe... Son of a... Yeah- Apparently, I tabbed and spammed "Space" which made triple post. Well. I've edited this one to be the text of the others. Maybe i can get the other ones deleted? ENinja

So, I've recently acquired a Jecob Lynch set- a Huggy, Lynch, a couple illuminated (he kept one) and a beckoner. I've also got games to play with Lucas McCabe, so I figured I would set up my back and cards to be a Ten Thunders box for a couple weeks. See what the faction has going for it. So, like any good player I started to do my homework. Apart from seeing how good some of the general models could be, and checking out what x-faction stuff I could snag (Austringers?! In a McCabe crew?!) one of the main features I was looking for were things that made Lynch's card tricks totally baller. Here are the highlights. Stitched together: Duh. I mean. They bring a ton of card draw tricks, integral do the machine. High crow nets you a card, and loses them one. An ace in hand means you're netting two cards. (Draw two, discard an ace, draw it back into your hand.) An Ace of crows means that even if you're losing, you're drawing a card. Combine that with: Yin: Giving someone a neg to WP before you start playing for keeps? That's pretty nasty too. Guild Pathfinders: Scavange says models dying within 6" of a pathfinder result in a card draw, and discard. Draw something good- discard an ace. You're up a card. Ten Thunders Bro: They're awesome in a lot of lists- but if you can get a hold of an ace of rams, each Bro you got will let you draw a card, then discard a card. Again- if it's an ace, that's a net card. Sensei Yu: Ok, so they've made it so you can't just mulligan twice. (Because frankly? That would be broke as hell.) But you can still cycle out 2-5's or whatever garbage you got rattling around in your huge hand. It's like a free stone for cards. With that upgrade in the neverborn... Okay, so now you got the cards, and hopefully an ace or two- what can you do with 'em? Lone Swordsman: Can discard two to gain reactivate and go all murderous. If aces, it's for free. (you still gotta get your stabby stabby on.) Kamaitachi: I don't see a world where I'd take a Kamaitachi over a huggy, but if I ever did, he can discard a card to push a minion or leader. And he can discard two cards (at ca7) to give a model the requisite number of burning. Not half bad for a totem. Ten Thunders Bro: Interference? Hold onto that Ace of Crows. 4" melee is no joke. Any suit can turn into a useful Dance of the Heavens trigger. Ten Thunders Archer: Free Rapid Fire into melee? With blot the sky? Yesplz. There are a load of others. This whole faction seems to have minions that love to discard cards. The Wastrels can discard a card to add any suit to a duel. The Rail Workers can discard a card to gain a positive twist to melee attacks and damage. Fuhatsu can take Juggernaut. Sidir can take Always There. And there's a special place in my heart for Tengu, who can discard two cards to discard two scheme markers within 3". Or if you have two aces, for free. It's not even a cast. ... Or a (1) action. And all of this is before "52 card pickup" and "Expert Cheater", and woke up with a hand/final debt. So, with that in mind, am I just late to the party? Is there a tome of awesome card draw/abuse shenanigans that I'm not privy to? Lemme toss one out there: Open Spoiler Ten Thunders Crew - 50 - Scrap Jakob Lynch -- 3 Pool +Expert Cheater [2] +Wanna See a Trick [1] +Woke Up With A Hand [2] Hungering Darkness [0] +Addict [1] +Recalled Training [1] Stitched Together [6] Stitched Together [6] Ten Thunders Brother [5] Ten Thunders Brother [5] The Lone Swordsman [8] +Recalled Training [1] Toshiro The Daimyo [9] +Command the Graves [1] Toshiro helps the Ten Thunders out, turns scrap and corpses into Komainu and Ashigaru. Stitched help draw cards and soften up targets (either with game of chance with crows, or gamble your life with decent cards), Ten Thunders draw cards (swapping out low rams to try and cycle into aces and higher cards), the Lone Swordsman finishes off softened targets with "You shall not live". Huggy and Lynch do their thing- Huggy tries to brilliant people, and maybe takes obeys with them for funsies. Then Lynch pops in last to show his hand, maybe literally, then flush the garbage and start over again. Sounds like a lot of fun. I'm excited to give it a go. ENinja

While things that can bypass armor can't bypass rider-armor, things that can target willpower can, as it's a DF trigger. As can things that just ignore dfenesive trigger. So, there are threats to a riders safety that certain crews can just dig into. As for hooded- I love the idea of mimics blessings to give it more defensive options, and I think pairing with a black blood shaman is another fantastic idea- make that big base into a black blood pustule machine, and drop crows so any damage the rider takes can be healed back. ENinja

Eh. I thought she was at 10. I dunno- she feels squishy to me. Might be my time with Ironsides who's got 14 with a million stones. Might also be that my meta brings armor ignore.... Vikiiiiis! >n<;

Nice! Love that.

Yeah, I don't know how I would feel about it. The story encounter atmosphere is great, and it is of course a very competitive, but what basically amounts to a VP/Diff/TP or whatever the breakdown ended up being probably keeps it from wanted to be ranked next to a typical TP/Diff/VP event. If you guys (other players, T.O.s, rankings organizers) feel that it's okay, I wouldn't shout down the mountains, but I took 2nd with just two wins, and getting points for that might feel unwholesome. Could be just me. ENinja ps And just as a point of reference- I know we're making our own brackets and can change the system as necessary to our scene, but the UK didn't account for rankings at Story Encounter events, which is what BtF is/was marketed as. That being said, the Master Tourney at Ordo Fanaticus that's coming up is a totally legitimate ranked event (presuming 10 or more folks play).

I've painted up two. So gross. And with a Metal Gamin bumping them from DF3 to DF 6? Guh. ENinja

Has anyone mentioned Silent Ones yet? Has a 0 action to heal, which is great. I've written about that a lot. Her 1 action ca is amazing! It has no gun, so it ignores cover and shooting into engagements. It has a great damage spread, with blast templates. it has three great triggers, including healing nearby frozen heart models (summoned ice gamin, december acolytes, silent ones if they're doing their cast from melee), and placing ice columns (which can be used to protect models from firing squads). And to top it all off Cassandra can copy it, and cast it, while engaged. Cassy Charge, Trigger Magician's Prop, cast freeze. trigger recast. Cast freeze, no triggers. Take second attack, trigger swirl of motion, push out. Nimble behind a wall. Baller status.

Depending on schemes and strats, I kinda like to go one of two ways: Brutal Effigy is usually an autotake. It can scheme, it can potentially give out slow, but it takes McMourning from healing potentially 5 wounds, to healing potentially 9 wounds (If gets 5 damage done for his ability, and hits with all four attacks (including his 0)). Nurses are great for a lot of things, many of which were mentioned already. Same with Witchling Stalkers. I'm throwing my chips in with the Executioner, depending on the faction across the table. Being able to give him extra movement (through injection, or stalker pushes...) shores up one of his biggest weaknesses. He can do counter schemes really well, he's got his own heal, and if you can get him into combat with Precise (ignores armor and hard to wound) and +2 damage (from hallucinogens), on top of being able to ignore defensive triggers, he can put out some serious hurt, and take down some potentially difficult models, including masters like Colette (who can't use Death Defying or Blinding Flash), or the Dreamer (I belive his pass damage off to nearby nightmares is a built in DF trigger? Not an inherent ability?) Hunters are fun, you can make them SUPER fast turn one, and then make ranged attacks the next turn. Watchers are the same- depending on the board, you can move them 16" with flight, then push them 8 more with injection and place a scheme marker. Great for a final spring the trap, or a first turn plant explosives. Varient Build: I've put a ton of thought into a poison G. McMourning list that runs Nurses, Sebastian, the Chihuahua, Lawyers, performers and potentially Exorcists. The goal being, Sebastian, the Nurses, and the Lawyers rack up poison on folks, McMourning continues the push and potentially expunges, and the performers can use Sip of Wine to do crazy damage once the poison is wracked up high enough. The ability to have no cap is great. And the fact that you're not getting a flesh construct if you're not getting the kill with expunge is moot in the guild lists. The Exorcists are there to potentially amplify rancid transplant if you're not taking plastic surgery. Standard Disclaimer, all of these choices are dependent on Schemes and Strategy, as well as opponent faction and board layout. Loves me some Guild McMourning. ENinja

I like it on Cassandra with Smoke and Mirrors, I like it on Mei Feng. They both have "If you miss, and I have a mask, I'm canceling your charge or your flurry". They both have less than typical wounds, so it can keep them alive a lot longer. I was in a tourney the other week, and VS. a Lilith crew, with a Silent One doing some support heals and a lot of stones, she took 2 red jokers from lilith, a red joker from Lilitu, and finally a third RJ from Lilith (making it four red jokers across 5 turns) finally biting it in the fifth. The quote of the match was, "SHE CAN'T BE STOPPED!" I think I've put it on Firestarter- DF7 is great, especially with his DF trigger. I've put it on the captain, and I've put it on ironsides. Ironsides is an odd duck- you want her to be hit, but if you don't want her to die, it gives you more control over the severity of the hit, and if they happen to flip RJ, you can sac it and a SS to give you min 3 prevention. 5 if you get a little lucky. ENinja

Though- Acrane Effigy is probably a misstype for Brutal. He ain't no M&SU.

@Trikk Yes. Awesome.

Seems like its more a "bag of props" style crew than a "fated" kind of crew, which is fine- Let the brutal and the arcane make Collodi's attacks rad, then have him pull strings six times? Not bad. Letting him steal focus, as well as getting a plus flip from Lazarus hitting him with my will? That could get crazy. If he snagged a focus from each of the marionettes... With CA7 and a potential to attack and a to damage? (Atk- + from my will, double plus from double focus) (Dmg- + from Pull String's inherent plus flip, double plus from focus...) Could be good. I mean, you could only get it that good twice, and you'd need all your maionettes in position, and taking double focus actions, so. Regardless. That's a lot of slows and potentially stolen AP. If you could reliably give slow to three enemies and take the remaining one AP from each of those enemies as well... That's a hell of a wrench. ENinja

Lemme start with I love McCabe. I've not played him nearly enough- I was focusing on getting a bunch of games with my Arcanists in, so I've taken a leave of absence from my guild duties. I'm about to pick them (and subsequently him) back up! As for schemes and strats- His dog synergies and speed help him with anything that deals with mobility (as has already been said so I won't wax poetic). His ability to pass out slow and paralyze can also hamper the same types of schemes- (You're getting close... NET GUN! Try delivering a message now...). His flexibility in kits, and the way he makes minions and enforcers better means he can make any model needed for a given scheme or strat better at their job (an executioner with nimble? Sweet! A hunter with nimble and reactivate? Nice. An austringer with nimble and reactivate? @_@ Dear lord) Dogs are great for cheap activations, again as has been said, and with Luna in tow they're one of the best oneoff scheme runners in the game. They're also very good at tying models up- One dog leads and places a scheme marker, the next one (or two or three) all take 1ap charges. Promises is fantastic since passing around upgrades with wastrels could mean everyone is getting the bonuses, and in Henchmen heavy lists, it's a force multiplier. My favorite of all may be the Pale Rider. If you hand him a Glowing Saber, he can use the critical strike on it with his built in Rams from his "Chasing" ability. Minimum +4 damage on turn 5 with something like a 10" charge range? Yesplz. I would suggest, even if you don't want to outright buy him, try him out on vassal or with proxies in a friendly game. His cards look fine, but there's something about just how fast he gets going that feels immediately satisfying. ENinja

Herp Derp. Thanks for the QC on my stupid comment. I need to learn to think and research before I type... >.<; ENinja

Eh. Black Flash him, and let him do the Trail of Gore on his second activation.

I'm still a "Sexy Exe" plus "McMourning and Nurses" kinda build. You can up his walk in the first turn, and push him forward with injection real quick to get him in position- then if you can get him engaged and pop Precise and Hallucinogens on him, he's ignoring a ton of DF'ives, and doing bonus damage to boot. And the Scheme marker (0) action is a fantastic reason to bring him- midfield bully and Protect Territory and LitS counter. On top of DF trigger master slayers- Executioner vs. Colette makes Colette sad. (Granted, if he can catch her.) Maybe Executioner with a Death Marshal taxi? ENinja

Realistically, "The crew that gets to job done." But more specifically: Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap Collodi -- 6 Pool +Bag of Props [1] +Strum the Threads [1] Marionette X 2 [6] Black Blood Shaman [7] Brutal Effigy [4] Stitched Together [6] The Illuminated [7] The Illuminated [7] Widow Weaver [8] The marionette can skirt around Collodi- taking the focus or the defensive action to pass that up to him when/if he needs it. The brutal effigy slips around outside of 6 but can still use his 0 to let collodi get reliable heals on his attacks. BBS works with the illuminated, giving them more AoE dammage, and potentially more survivability (you can Black Blood Pustule the illuminated to make them explode, as well as heal 2 wounds) which makes them amazing bloodbombs. The widow weaver is good at prompting out of activation terrifying checks, and dropping WP with web markers. Most of them are still minions, so if you end up close enough, you can still my will people to do things. Giving the BBS or an Illuminated an extra swing or two can be great. And you can still pull strings into melee at 10" giving out slow, taking ap, making them do things, and doing damage. I haven't played Collodi against many blast placers, but I've played other deathball style crews against them. Hoffman's the only one with an active defense against blast markers. You just gotta try and spread the love- make them have to choose between squad a (widow weaver, illuminated and a black blood shaman) or squad b (A super charged collodi with a brutal effigy for healing and cards and a stitched together). ENinja