Math Mathonwy

I did my Stuffeds in various shades (they are Undead after all) and the same should work for the flying versions:

Thank you so much both of you, so far! Very interesting insights! Some further questions/comments. So I'm thinking that the list plays somewhat like a Colette list running circles around the opponent doing Schemes while Zipp and Emissary provide a distraction? No First Mate? I've been playing him with Zoraida and he has always performed amazingly well. Three Flying Piglets? Are they really that good? How do you use them? How do you keep them from dying an inglorious death when an opposing model looks at them funny? Do you simply team them up with Skeeters to basically extend the Skeeters' Scheming range to ridiculous lengths? Can you keep the Wrastlers alive against enemy attacks? They seem awfully squishy and that 0" melee range is such a giant weakness. What a fantastic guide against a specific Master! Love it! Finally, a general question: who do you usually ferry with the Skeeters? And do you tend to form little tag-teams or is the ferrying more opportunistic in nature after the first turn? That seems kinda suicidal but I suppose I'll have to just try it out in practice. I do very much appreciate the in depth description! Nekima is unfortunately in the same Faction as Zoraida but I suppose you need to weigh the chances when declaring Zipp against the Neverborn. And there's also the fact that Nekima can be a bit difficult pill to swallow for most of the Bayou Masters. The note about the Arachnid Swarm is great!

I must be missing something important - he doesn't seem like he'd contribute much aside from Initiative to Swampfiends? I mean, you can get an unsuited Obey from within the keyword as well?

How do you play the little green Rocketeer? What do your crews look like? Which models from the keyword do you love? Which ones do you seldom take? Which OOK stuff is the best with Infamous? Any important Upgrades to take? What does your first turn look like? What does Zipp do? Anything else important? Which ones are your favourite Strats and Schemes to take Zipp into? What about opponents? Is there an opposing Master (or Faction) that Zipp hates? Anyone that he completely dominates?

I don't understand how or why but I apparently deleted my sentence about him. But yeah, agreed, not very masky at all.

Maybe we should look at the Masters of each Faction? Pandora and Zoraida are obviously extremely "Masky". Dreamer as well, IMO. Euripides is concerned with Fate but isn't otherwise very masky, agreed. Nekima is quite straightforward and more ramsy than masky but there is still the mobility aspect so it's not a complete loss. Titania manipulates the environment which I find quite masky though she also has undead themes and such. Marcus is similar to Nekima in that it's only mobility and Malifaux itself that lend any maskyness to him. And finally, Lucius is probably the epitome of maskyness. On the TT side Jacob Lynch is naturally very masky. And I suppose Youko as well. Misaki is sneaky criminals and ninjas so mask-leaning in a sense but not completely. Asami is like a slightly less masky Dreamer but on the spectrum as well, most definitely. But I feel that that's basically it on the TT side. Yan Lo doesn't feel masky, Mei Feng doesn't feel masky, and McCabe is a thief but not otherwise masky. So by my count there's four very masky Master in NB and one half masky and the rest are so-so. TT has two very masky Masters, two quite Masky ones and the rest aren't. So, through this totally scientific in depth analysis, my conclusion is that the Neverborn are still the maskiest faction currently. But I do agree that they need to watch their back.

I think one could solo almost any of the Gremlin Masters if needed. Ulix is the one I wouldn't solo but all the others would be fine, I think. I have soloed Mah in two tournaments and have yet to lose a game (though I did have to drop out of a final game due to a massive headache) so she for sure.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that it would somehow lessen Malifaux. You would still have that exact same scenario albeit for 0" melee as opposed to 1" melee. So in essence the change is 2" immune, 1" and 0" affected to 2" and 1" immune, 0" affected. That's a shift, not taking stuff away. I'm not saying that you are wrong to love it being for those two ranges (when in BtB) but I hope that you agree that it is completely arbitrary, as such. It would also add them since it isn't really taking rules away but rather changing how a rule works.

It would still work for 0" Attacks? As well as all attacks that are performed from their maximum range? Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly but it seems like this example isn't about complexity but just that you'd prefer Severe Terrain for Butterfly Jump to affect exactly 1" ranges when in base to base contact? Which seems oddly specific but as said, I very well might misunderstanding something.

All wargames are simplifications. All rules are a compromise between interest/authenticity and gaming fun, basically. Now, I can't comment on the specific example because I'm not quite sure how the proposed change would invalidate it (as far as I can tell, it would limit Butterfly Jump to 1" instead of 1.5" in Severe Terrain making it still an effective tactic for nullifying Butterfly Jump) but it is true that simplification always takes away something. The question is, is retaining it worth the cost in complexity. I still remember the surprisingly large outcry when M2e came out and took away Lady Justice's shooting attack. The attack in question was quite bad (she is blind, after all!) and basically never used (she was my first Master in M1e and I never even once used it) but it was seen as an option and taking it out as an oversimplification and removing tactical options.

Do you know are they going to keep the current special orders on offer when they update? In other words, do the new ones expand the current offerings or replace them? (I need Good Old Boys as well as Georgy and Olaf - the former are available but I'd like to wait until both are available).

Also consider the terrain: M3e seemed to up the terrain requirements and it often makes big based Pigs with their short melee ranges very difficult to use against a competent opponent who knows how to make use of terrain and durable models to block off the pigs.

I've seen extremely often, even in tournaments, that people don't measure model movement in severe terrain even remotely correctly. Especially when the model is leaving severe terrain (as then you should be measuring from the back of the base when you normally always measure from the front). And in general it's very frustrating when people measure shooting ranges to millimeter accuracy and then move models with nowhere near as much accuracy. A tape measure hovering four inches over the model is such a different thing compared to a proper measuring widget placed into base contact with the mini. Now, that said, I do agree that errata isn't the correct way to go about implementing a change such as this one but I would very, very much welcome it when M3.5 hits in 2022 Though I must admit that I doubt it would somehow break the balance of M3e if it was implemented without other errata. It would naturally affect models but the overall balance of M3e is nowhere near that level where this would somehow upset it one bit.

Whiskey Golem is indeed great with Mah. I've also taken Spawn Mother with Mah and have consistently managed to produce three Gupps in two turns to take care of certain types of Schemes. Now, there's a couple of things worth noting. First of all, Spawn Mother needs Rams and Mah does as well for the first turn. Second, Gupps aren't nearly as mobile as they used to be unless you're willing to burn Masks so don't expect them to run to the opponent's side of the board. That said, a Focused Spawn Mother is deadly and I feel that her defenses work better in a Mah list than they do with most other Masters. Certainly not every time and you need a clear plan for her but she has been consistently good when I've taken her.

Additionally I've simply used her as a speedbump, essentially. With three Focus she is, or at least seems like, a bit of a threat and using Focus on defensive flips can have her be somewhat durable. Since she is Insignificant, her dying isn't a big deal. I've also used her to run down a flank to remove enemy Power Ritual marker. But yeah, Pushing friendlies is by far her most useful Action.

The problem is that Roosters are both extremely mobile and have an extremely long range. And put out a ton of attacks - I dunno, I have never had Focus stripped from them since most Condition Removal is kinda rare (in that there are only a certain amount of models in the opposing force capable of it) and usually doesn't have a massive range. Concealment OTOH is always there and Focus nullifies it which is where much the power comes from. But I'm not sure my main contention here is so much the power level (though I have yet to lose a game while stacking Focus on Roosters) but rather that I'm not quite sure that it was Mah's intended playstyle. It's also kinda annoying and fiddly. I do agree that it is currently her source of power and without it she would perhaps become a bit irrelevant so care should be taken.

What if Smugglers were 4SS? Would everyone then always take two in every crew? I mean, I realize that the suggestion is a bit bonkers...

All the cool kids are doing it! On the other Faction Forums, that is. So what would you errata for the Bayou? Or are we perfect as we are? My random ramblings: Roosters are silly. I'd switch their gun to a 2/3/4 damage track and drop one wound making them 7 Wd models. Mah. I'm not sure that her giving +3 Focus to her whole gang is a good thing. I'd make the Focus Trigger on her Holler into "Once per Activation". To compensate, maybe let her drop two Pit Traps at the beginning of the game? Or maybe give her melee attack the Mask baked in. Bayou Gremlin. He's the basic Gremlin and Versatile but does anyone outside of Big Hat ever hire one? I'm not at all sure what should be done as they are so cheap and have good synergy with Big Hat but I really wish that they could be adjusted somehow to make them at least an occasional consideration. Bayou Smuggler. Another Versatile model but now one that is never taken even within keyword, basically. They have a weird role and die way too easy for that one. Unimpeded is obvious but isn't enough. A rifle would also make sense. But I suppose that the most important thing would be to add some defensive tech to allow them to do what they are supposed to do. Disguised? Stealth? Hard to Wound? I dunno. Do you agree? Disagree? Other profiles that should be looked at?

My confusion rose from the fact that you didn't seem to answer his question but rather some other question that was far, far looser in scope. But that said, I do 100% believe what you are saying now and communication is never easy and I for one have been guilty of similar many times in the past so fair enough. There's three Dreamer players around, one is a beginner, one is moderately experienced, and one is a superb player. All the Dreamer games seem to revolve strongly around GYL but that is naturally anecdotal. Oh, and I have never lost a game where I have used the Stitched. But that is even less of an indication of a greater trend than my other Stitched experiences. I'm not quite sure I called you dishonest but if I did, I sincerely apologize.

The general consensus amongst the people in the tournament (including the two Dreamer players present and including highly accomplished veterans) was that GYL is bonkers but the defenses are the actually baffling part and what makes things seem unfair since dealing with them is so difficult. Essentially the only counterplay available is running away or dealing with them and dealing with them is extremely difficult. Just to explain where I'm coming from and that I'm not alone in my opinion. I also do admit that I have never seen anyone else besides me actually hire the things - they have always been Summoned (I hired some when I was testing Collodi) so my views may be tainted by that. Edit: To expand a wee bit still, I feel that the problem with Stitched is their massive damage potential with minimal counterplay opportunities - especially when Summoned. Making GYL less "weird" and giving counterplay that way would be one possibility. The other possibility would be to lessen the defenses of Stitched thus making counterplay easier that way. And I feel that from a "fluff" perspective the latter would fit them better while retaining what makes them unique. But that is naturally a very subjective opinion.

What do you feel would happen, if Stitched would lose their Armor - do you think they would still be relevant? Or is the problem more to do with Summoning and should they have a rule that says something like "When this model is Summoned, it suffer four damage" (four since it's reduced by Armor to the more conventional three)? Or do you feel that it is GYL which needs to change?

Cool report with good pictures! Loved it! Thank you for the write-up! Some questions: What did you think of Cooper? From the sounds of it, she didn't do much else than Summon Gamin, occasionally heal them, and tank - was that correct? Do you find Condition Removal to be the bane of your existence? What's your opinion on Fingers? It seemed that you didn't use Popcorn much for fighting - would Fingers have been a better choice for Scheming or is Popcorn's ability to be a threat (even if it doesn't manifest it still affects things) and higher mobility the thing that makes the difference.

Ah, the good old middle-finger cleverly disguised as an innocent smiley - very nice! @Maniacal_cackle asked about a non-Master that can bypass as much defensive tech as a Stitched, especially a low-cost Minion and you list ten things ranging from stuff avoidable by a low TN simple duel to 20SS combos that do a bit of unavoidable damage through a sizable investment in cards, AP, and models. Oh, and pepper the list with a couple of real examples. It didn't seem to me to be an honest attempt at answering the original question or making more sense of the situation but more like someone who wanted to purposefully muddy the waters. Maybe I'm mistaken and your intentions were pure but the execution was nonetheless super bizarre. I was honestly confused by the 5-6" thing since unless you're somehow giving Stuffeds a 50mm base, the 6" doesn't seem very likely to me and I was wondering whether you meant that the Stuffed can move and thus extend the range or something. But now I realize that you meant 5.18" = 5-6" Finally, the BBB thing happened in a real game. Or are you calling me a liar now? I mean, maybe I'm a bad player and you would've played it far better but it was a thing that happened and it did not look like a situation that would be all that difficult for a competent Dreamer to set up when needed.

That's a Stuffed Piglet (2SS), Sparks (8SS but likely 9SS since Stuffed comes from a different keyword), and Pigapult (7SS though it comes with a single free Stuffed) that kills the Stuffed! So it's nearly a 20 Stone combo (in reality you want more than one ammo if you're going this route) that requires hitting two TNs and the opponent to fail three simple duels and Armor counts for quadruple since it's four sources of damage. If you're going that route, why not mention Joss exploding for 40 if the whole crew has been dedicated to pumping him full of Power Tokens? Seems equally relevant. Also, where on earth are you getting "a bubble of 5-6" " from? The honest comparison would be that Sparks (8SS) can give a Demise ability for a model to do 3 damage which bypasses a lot of the same defenses as a Stitched does and it's a 2" pulse.

For the record, I've seen tons of complaints about Arachnid Swarms and about Pale Rider and both are always on the table when people talk about models that should be nerfed so I'm not sure that they are the best points of comparison. If we are aiming for that power level, Wyrd will need to buff, what, 400(?) profiles and I don't think that's very likely (or even result in a game I'd like to play, to be honest).