How to use Jack Daw competitive??

[TeddyBear]

Hi guys! Any of you did ever have success in a tournament with Jack Daw? Do you know anyone who have?

What models do you use with him? Do you prefere tematic models or others?

Is there a way to give "Alpha Strike" with Jack?

Any suggestions will be appreciated!!

Thanks

 

 

[PositronMike]

I have had some success with Jack at tournaments. My Jack crew always has 3 models in addition to Jack these are a Guilty, Sue and the Emissary. Other models that are often make the list are a second Guilty, Johan, Ashes and Dust, Malifaux Child, Nurse and Crooked Man. 

The Emissary is a great scheme runner for Jack and the curse it can put on models can cause some serious problems for your opponent. Sue is amazing and Jack speeds him up which his main weakness. I almost always put the regen trinket on him to make hurt pseudo free. 

The guilty are there to make models like Sue and Johan tormented to speed them up. They also are passable scheme runners and can be quite good at holding points as well. They will go down if focused upon but usually you try to give the opponent too many other high priority targets. 

[TeddyBear]

15 minutes ago, PositronMike said:

I have had some success with Jack at tournaments. My Jack crew always has 3 models in addition to Jack these are a Guilty, Sue and the Emissary. Other models that are often make the list are a second Guilty, Johan, Ashes and Dust, Malifaux Child, Nurse and Crooked Man. 

The Emissary is a great scheme runner for Jack and the curse it can put on models can cause some serious problems for your opponent. Sue is amazing and Jack speeds him up which his main weakness. I almost always put the regen trinket on him to make hurt pseudo free. 

The guilty are there to make models like Sue and Johan tormented to speed them up. They also are passable scheme runners and can be quite good at holding points as well. They will go down if focused upon but usually you try to give the opponent too many other high priority targets. 

Thanks, How do you use malifaux child? And why Sue?

i try him with Ashes & Dust but  i find it not synergistics.. Do you use torment on ashes and dust?

[PositronMike]

Sue is a good utility piece that draws a card at the end of his activation and can do a reasonable amount of damage. I usually run him with return fire to get the most attacks out of him. He can also give your crew extra protection from casts with his zero action. 

The malifaux child is mainly there as a cheap activation however his heal can be useful and it can be fun to borrow Jacks Noose on occasion if the child is in combat. If you take twist and turn on Jack the child has more options. I very rarely go down the twist and turn route pestering Jacks other upgrades instead. 

[Adran]

My favourite alpha strike with him

Jack, Twist and turn. Writhign torment

Desolation engine with Oath keeper

Student of Conflict

Rusty alyce. 

Guilty

Rest to suit

Aim is to make the engine tormented and fast. Then burn it out to give it reactivate. then it pushes 3 " on activation, gets to have 3 ap +ml expert, during which I hope it managed to heal up most of its wounds, and then it activates again, discards oath keeper and has 4 AP to kill things with. Plus You can have Jack make it do an out of activation attack. 

Risks are keeping it safe when it is on 1 wound. when this works, it is capable of throwing out huge damage on the first turn, summoning several extra abominations, and still being fully healthy. 9 AP and 6" on extra pushes for a turn is a lot of fun! In an ideal world, its first turn charge will get it attacking something 14" away, with 2 extra attacks, and its 0 dealing damage. 

 

This may not be Competitive in all cases, but I enjoy it. 

[Fenriel]

I've yet to run him in a tournament but I've won several games with him lately. He offers alot of utility for the crew. and unless the opponent has easy access to focus, you can keep him alive a long time (survivalist or a nurse help too). I tend to always run him, guilty and a beater with bigger they are. A few of the Crossroad 7 are wonderful depending on strats & schemes and I like dead outlaws with him more than parker. A&D tends to get outside his control bubble for my taste.  Sue, Johan, Emissary are all great fits. 

 

Reading the Desolation trick above.....I need to try that. It may only work once but the chaos will be spectacular. 

[BaconBytes]

15 hours ago, Adran said:

My favourite alpha strike with him

Jack, Twist and turn. Writhign torment

Desolation engine with Oath keeper

Student of Conflict

Rusty alyce. 

Guilty

Rest to suit

Aim is to make the engine tormented and fast. Then burn it out to give it reactivate. then it pushes 3 " on activation, gets to have 3 ap +ml expert, during which I hope it managed to heal up most of its wounds, and then it activates again, discards oath keeper and has 4 AP to kill things with. Plus You can have Jack make it do an out of activation attack. 

Risks are keeping it safe when it is on 1 wound. when this works, it is capable of throwing out huge damage on the first turn, summoning several extra abominations, and still being fully healthy. 9 AP and 6" on extra pushes for a turn is a lot of fun! In an ideal world, its first turn charge will get it attacking something 14" away, with 2 extra attacks, and its 0 dealing damage. 

 

This may not be Competitive in all cases, but I enjoy it. 

I tried something similar with hamelin. It hurt so bad when I  wiffed every attack and then lost initiative 

[PositronMike]

On 8/3/2017 at 1:14 AM, BaconBytes said:

I tried something similar with hamelin. It hurt so bad when I  wiffed every attack and then lost initiative 

Losing initiative on alpha strikes has hurt me so many times that I now generally only try them with Tara as she can get the to initiative to help out

[beergod]

Jack is a beat stick. He has so many movement options and Pushes. I like to take one Guilty, Lust, a Nurse, Emissary, Johan,  Either a Drowned or a Crooked man depending on the enemy faction  and a Child. Movement tricks galore

 

[-Loki-]

Movement tricks doesn't make him a beatstick. Even with The Bigger They Are, he doesn't do so much damage to be regarded as a beatstick master. He's a shutdown/debuff master with some crew support in the way of those pushes. That's why so much of his card revolves around his Curses and why he can take 2 of them even with a full set of upgrades.

[Seadhna]

6 hours ago, -Loki- said:

Movement tricks doesn't make him a beatstick. Even with The Bigger They Are, he doesn't do so much damage to be regarded as a beatstick master. He's a shutdown/debuff master with some crew support in the way of those pushes. That's why so much of his card revolves around his Curses and why he can take 2 of them even with a full set of upgrades.

At min damage 8 on a charge with Ca 7 and a 19" threat range he's a perfectbeatstick, rivaled only by Viks, Levi and Killjoy

[TeddyBear]

22 minutes ago, Seadhna said:

At min damage 8 on a charge with Ca 7 and a 19" threat range he's a perfectbeatstick, rivaled only by Viks, Levi and Killjoy

Min 8 damage and 19 threat?? How??

The problem i see with Jack is: Ok he is resilent, but his crew? If i play him with temathic models, they have ridicoulous wp..(neverborn have a good time! ) if i choose to play him with stronger pieces of outcast i have a maximum of 6/7 activation especially if there is A&D and/or Emissary.. 

the question is, why should i use Jack when there is Leveticus? (in a tournament contest)

[Jinn]

8 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

Min 8 damage and 19 threat?? How??

Just looked over the cards, I don't play JD, it seems that if you put The Bigger They Are on him and the Firing Squad Injustice on the target it increases his damage spread and the damage of his trigger separately. So 2/3/4 + 2 damage (from the trigger) goes to 4/5/6 + 4 damage. This would be 3/4/5 + 3 versus a master as TBTA doesn't work on them. The damage spread and the trigger's damage would be reduced separately by armor or SS as it is actually two different instances of damage. The threat range would be Oathkeeper for two 5" walks and a 7" charge with Rg: 2.

[TeddyBear]

15 minutes ago, Jinn said:

So 2/3/4 + 2 damage (from the trigger) goes to 4/5/6 + 4 damage. 

i don't understand well 2/3/4 + 2 from trigger, goes to 4/5/6 +1 of the bigger they are goes to 5/6/7 +1 of his upgrade 6/7/8??

i think also the trigger is not an attack action then the upgrade effect don't work on attack's trigger..

[TeddyBear]

17 minutes ago, Jinn said:

 The threat range would be Oathkeeper for two 5" walks and a 7" charge with Rg: 2.

Ah ok but, which upgrade would you remore? Writing torment? Twist and Turn? These two i think are fundamental..

[Jinn]

5 hours ago, TeddyBear said:

i don't understand well 2/3/4 + 2 from trigger, goes to 4/5/6 +1 of the bigger they are goes to 5/6/7 +1 of his upgrade 6/7/8??

i think also the trigger is not an attack action then the upgrade effect don't work on attack's trigger..

From the wording on "The Bigger They Are" it says that  actions get +1 damage. As far as I am aware that means that all damage within the action deals +1 damage, even triggers. So if the trigger says deal 2 damage it increases by +1 and if, for example, a trigger said deal 2/3/4 it would deal 3/4/5 instead. Edit: this was FAQ'd, see posts below.

As for which upgrades you would remove, I have no idea; I don't even know JDs usual upgrades so maybe someone else can answer that. Just looking at it, and from playing Arcanists, I would rarely go with a discard for fast upgrade on a master.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Jinn

[Nikodemus]

@Jinn

They addressed this in the FAQ a few months back:

Quote

72) If a Trigger on an Action causes damage (whether a flip or a fixed amount), does that count as part of the original Action? Is it modified by effects like the Accuracy Modifier and Focus? Do fixed damage bonuses (such as from Hallucinogens or The Bigger They Are) apply to the Trigger? Triggers that cause damage are a part of the Action which caused them. Any damage flip on such a Trigger would retain any Fate Modifiers to the original flip including Accuracy, Focus, cover, etc. Any fixed damage (such as the +1 damage from The Bigger They Are) only applies to the initial Action (not any resulting Triggers). (3/30/17)

 

[apes-ma]

56 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

Ah ok but, which upgrade would you remore? Writing torment? Twist and Turn? These two i think are fundamental..

I often play without either of those upgrades (3 curses, the bigger they are and Oathkeeper) - but writhing torment is a lot better than twist and turn. The pushes for tormented crew members and immunity to paralysis are both great, and twist and turn, whilst good, is extremely card-hungry I find...

Edit: or you can take the bigger they are and drop drowning I justice (I think... The one that effects minions and peons only).

[PositronMike]

My typical Jack load out is all 3 curses, writhing torment and the bigger they are. Before the FAQ he could walk and charge and easily do 10 damage. Since the FAQ you are better getting in a position to hit 3 times. This let's you put out 12 damage and still leave a curse on the model if it is still alive. 

If you want silly amounts of damage on a model then you need to use the Emissary to put his curse on the model first. This then let's Jack do min 4 damage on the first hit, min 6 on the subsequent hits and 2 from the trigger. Plus they take 2 damage if they cheat. 

20 minutes ago, apes-ma said:

I often play without either of those upgrades (3 curses, the bigger they are and Oathkeeper) - but writhing torment is a lot better than twist and turn. The pushes for tormented crew members and immunity to paralysis are both great, and twist and turn, whilst good, is extremely card-hungry I find...

Edit: or you can take the bigger they are and drop drowning I justice (I think... The one that effects minions and peons only).

The one that effects minions and peons is Guillotine Injustice. This is the one upgrade that I sometimes switch out depending on the opposing faction. I always take it when playing Neverborn, Guild and TT. 

[Seadhna]

 

23 hours ago, TeddyBear said:

Min 8 damage and 19 threat?? How??

The problem i see with Jack is: Ok he is resilent, but his crew? If i play him with temathic models, they have ridicoulous wp..(neverborn have a good time! ) if i choose to play him with stronger pieces of outcast i have a maximum of 6/7 activation especially if there is A&D and/or Emissary.. 

the question is, why should i use Jack when there is Leveticus? (in a tournament contest)

I usually go with Scout the Field, Bigger They Are, Writhing Torment, Drowned and Firing squad.

so you start 5" upfield, usually either in cover or relying on Oldest Magic. Then you walk 5", then you charge 7" (with no LoS, if need be).

Hit once, do 2 damage, attach Firing squad. Hit second time for min 4, rip off Firing Squad for 2 more.

 

In a tournament context you use Jack if you want more control, he's excellent at shutting down enemy beaters who have FfM on them for several turns in a row.

[TeddyBear]

10 hours ago, Seadhna said:

Hit once, do 2 damage, attach Firing squad. Hit second time for min 4, rip off Firing Squad for 2 more.

Ah ok, min 8 with 2 Attacks.

I like soo much play with Jack Daw, but i find Hamelin and Leveticus better in Tournament..

i'd like to bring him in Tournament, or learn to use him well.

[Virtus]

@TeddyBear Just realize that the whole metagame is going to change soon with the release of new Master upgrades and GG2018 coming soon.

[TeddyBear]

9 hours ago, Virtus said:

@TeddyBear Just realize that the whole metagame is going to change soon with the release of new Master upgrades and GG2018 coming soon.

Well i know, i hope that new upgrades and gg2018, improve competitiveness of some "overshadowed" masters..