Masquer Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I'm prepping to revisit my first Master, C. Hoffman, and I wanted to get the forum's opinions/feelings regarding two sets of beaters: Ryle and Peacekeeper (21 ss) Or Joss and Langston (22 ss) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Have you considered the Emissary? He has the advantage of bringing Df 6 and Sh 6 to the loop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquer Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, Myyrä said: Have you considered the Emissary? He has the advantage of bringing Df 6 and Sh 6 to the loop. I haven't, though I do like Conflux of Amalgamation, and that Df/Sh 6. I like the Hoffman avatar too. To stay on topic, which model(s) would you replace for it? Would you play it in addition to either set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Theoryfaux ahead: I feel like Joss and Langston pack the meanest punch. Joss can also create scrap for you to attach more upgrades and Langston's kill trigger offers discard options. Langston + the emissary also packs a mean punch since you can forcea large amount of discards followed by actual kills from that auto kill trigger. The peacekeeper with a ram attached does offer ridiculous minimum damage. I guess it would somewhat depend on what type of defenses you expect to face: wounds/armor/htk/incorp etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordkitten Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I seem to remember the Malifaux Child Hoffman build relies on Joss killing the child to generate scrap for upgrading. On the other hand, I tend Hoffman in a group where I can score my points in the centre of the board, so I rarely need scheme runners, and often have Joss, Brutal and then another beater on top. It works well for things like Extraction, Headhunter or Guard the Stash, and I rarely run him in Interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, Swordkitten said: I seem to remember the Malifaux Child Hoffman build relies on Joss killing the child to generate scrap for upgrading. On the other hand, I tend Hoffman in a group where I can score my points in the centre of the board, so I rarely need scheme runners, and often have Joss, Brutal and then another beater on top. It works well for things like Extraction, Headhunter or Guard the Stash, and I rarely run him in Interference. It's a way to combine a powerloop lasting all game with the scrap. Other options would be a clockwork trap for less stones if you aren't interested in the powerloop or want his own totem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I love the idea of a power loop lasting all game. But that makes me want rail golem or even a swarm. Getting ryle up a def 6 is a really tempting possibility too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, 4thstringer said: I love the idea of a power loop lasting all game. But that makes me want rail golem or even a swarm. Getting ryle up a def 6 is a really tempting possibility too. Seems like you're on team arcanist then 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchute Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Ludvig said: It's a way to combine a powerloop lasting all game with the scrap. Can you give more details on how this works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 7 hours ago, Masquer said: I'm prepping to revisit my first Master, C. Hoffman, and I wanted to get the forum's opinions/feelings regarding two sets of beaters: Ryle and Peacekeeper (21 ss) Or Joss and Langston (22 ss) First, 23ss to account for the hiring tax, and more accurately 26ss because mobile toolkit is stapled to arcanist assets. To be honest I kind of flinch at either combo. I just plain don't own Joss, and have found the Ryle/Peacekeeper combo costs 4ss more as well (brutal effigy) to boost everyone's defense to higher than "obvious blasting point". I like fielding only one at a time who both demands the loop for defense and wants the targeting systems. So I mix one stat donor (Howard Langston, maybe Joss fits here?, Brutal Emissary certainly will) with one recipient (peacekeeper, Ryle, rail golem if you've got it), somewhat dependent on terrain and whether multiple 50mm bases will fit or guarantee a traffic jam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 PowerLoop works til next activation. Child copies the Loop Action with trigger. Loops 2 models with trigger. Joss kills child. 2 models looped by Child are now loope... FOREVER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, trikk said: PowerLoop works til next activation. Child copies the Loop Action with trigger. Loops 2 models with trigger. Joss kills child. 2 models looped by Child are now looped... FOREVER I still haven't managed to have the child do this since...what, my very first game? She did have some fun last game, though. Not only did she machine puppet Hoffman...twice...with a ram both times...she assimilated his torch and toasted the wendigo sneaking up to devour her. She is going to get a very stern lecture about boundaries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 That's awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquer Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) After pondering the subject, I decided not to pursue the Arcanist models; I don't like their style. I did drop Ryle, in favor of the Brutal Emissary, from my preliminary list. Hoffman 6ss pool -Field Mechanic (2) -Remote Mines (2) -O.S.A (2) Mechanical Attendant (2) Brutal Emissary (10) -Conflux of Amalgamation (0) Peacekeeper (11) Guardian (7) Hunter (7) Watcher (4) Edited March 3, 2017 by Masquer Changed my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corn Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Honestly when I think about Arcanist beaters, the one that comes to my mind is Joss. Sure, Langston is a bit sexier, and if Frame for Murder is in the pool (and it will be frequently) one of the Enforcers will likely be a better pick. Joss is probably the most durable pick Hoffman can field, he has hard to kill which can help him hold on in a situation where another melee beatstick might falter, and if he can hold on at that 1 wound level, he'll pick up reactivate. Being able to stone for damage prevention can also give him a bit more flexibility in terms of surviving than a Peacekeeper. He has a very flat line melee attack which doesn't care about triggers, or damage flip- making him just as deadly with Machine Puppet attacks as his own. He can generate additional scrap which Hoffman can use to Heal or upgrade or even just blow up. The fact that his attacks ignore just about everything is icing on the cake. As a Henchmen he can carry both Numb to the World and Debt to the Guild, which makes him significantly more dangerous. (and still the same price as a peackeeper with Numb, or cheaper than Howard with Numb). He is especially comfortable being near the Brutal Emissary who with a low tome can set up a healing aura for friendlies activating near him- which means reactivating him will heal him back up to 3 wounds just for being near the emissary, with possible additional healing from Hoffman. Scrap from killing living models, and a smaller base to help him get into position. The Emissary can also borrow his arc axe, which will give people a headache for sure. The flips are gravy too. I would consider the 40mm henchmen for the same role as the 50mm enforcer beatsticks in a Hoffman crew. Especially one that includes the Emissary. Ryle and Joss both make excellent beat sticks in a Hoffman crew. Between the Emissary and your Henchmen, you really don't need another big monster, and it would probably just get in the way. You could use those points instead on fielding somebody like Sidir who can give anybody with a modification free flips, and occasionally shoot his gun or try to hand out slow. Sidir is also especially nice because By Your Side can be used to avert a deathblow to one of your constructs and make them hit Sidir instead. Joss is at 1 wound and just gained reactivate, opponent has one more attack... BY YOUR SIDE. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchute Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Joss' damage track is not impressive. I wouldn't call him a beater. However, if you anticipate armor on the opponent's side, things are getting interesting. I'll always remember how he killed Izamu so easily the one time I hired him with Hoffman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, Franchute said: Joss' damage track is not impressive. I wouldn't call him a beater. However, if you anticipate armor on the opponent's side, things are getting interesting. I'll always remember how he killed Izamu so easily the one time I hired him with Hoffman. Haha, min damage 3 ignoring armour looks like a beater to me. Against the likes of a Peacekeeper he is equal a min damage 5 model. Against something with armour and hard to kill or a defensive trigger they usually rely on he is a massive threat. Add a debt to that and people will start to get uncomfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchute Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ludvig said: Haha, min damage 3 ignoring armour looks like a beater to me. Against the likes of a Peacekeeper he is equal a min damage 5 model. Against something with armour and hard to kill or a defensive trigger they usually rely on he is a massive threat. Add a debt to that and people will start to get uncomfortable. Forget about armor, which is situational. His max damage is Howard's min damage. Peacekeeper and executioner might be considered to have a similar min damage if you consider the critical strike trigger. From this perspective, I'm not impressed by Joss' damage track. Now, in a situation with amor, I agree with you, the guy is a delight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 25 minutes ago, Franchute said: Forget about armor, which is situational. His max damage is Howard's min damage. Peacekeeper and executioner might be considered to have a similar min damage if you consider the critical strike trigger. From this perspective, I'm not impressed by Joss' damage track. Now, in a situation with amor, I agree with you, the guy is a delight. I can't remember the last time I played a game where my opponent didn't have armor, hard to kill or triggers like end attacker activation/squeal on at least two models. Most factions can bring models with really annoying armor values or insane defensive triggers. If I was up against ressers I could run into armour 4 Izamu or immortal masters like Kirai or Molly as well as Molly summoning in a crapton of hard to kill models at two wounds. In arcanists there's armor aplenty and the likes of Colette, Marcus and Rasputina. Against those kinds of models that high min damage will do next to nothing so I would prefer to have one model with high min damage and also Joss to handle the tricky models you're bound to run into. Ignoring all those defenses is a lot better than one extra point of damage on another model in my eyes and 3 isn't pitiful min damage, witchling thralls are considered fairly good beaters and they have min damage 3 but don't ignore any of the above defenses. I wouldn't dare to try for an assassinate-like scheme without a way to ignore triggers and armour on at least some model in my crew. Joss also has pretty great interactions with Hoffman: just the combination of overload (the reactivate thing) in a list that can deal damage to make a model take an ap and get fast and easy access to healing - yes please! Keep him near the emissary or heal him with Hoffman after you ping him for damage and you can keep him at healthy wounds but reactivate him, possibly for several turns in a row With flips on all his attacks that might start to add up. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Franchute said: Joss' damage track is not impressive. I wouldn't call him a beater. However, if you anticipate armor on the opponent's side, things are getting interesting. I'll always remember how he killed Izamu so easily the one time I hired him with Hoffman. Give him A Debt and Numb to the World + Nimble upgrade and see how your opponent cries. He has looped Df6, can have Ml7 from Guardian. Is immune to Conditions. Has 13" threat range. Doesn`t have triggers so its great for Machine Puppet. Ignores triggers, most defensive abilities. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Ignoring htk is gold too. I'd trade min dam 3 over min 4 if I got ignore htk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquer Posted March 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 If Dr. Alexei Sokoloff is a proxy for Joss, as I've seen speculated, I may run him. If Alexei isn't, I may run him instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 6 hours ago, Masquer said: If Dr. Alexei Sokoloff is a proxy for Joss, as I've seen speculated, I may run him. If Alexei isn't, I may run him instead. I've seen a picture of the card on the internet. Unless someone went through a lot of trouble to convince everyone he is an alternate Joss just for laughs, he probably is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 I've also seen the posted card stating it is Joss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted March 1, 2017 Report Share Posted March 1, 2017 I saw someone pull the model before it was announced in public that it was available anywhere. I may have squealed. Just a little. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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