Ressers General advice please

[generalbear]

Hey you disgusting rotting necromancer types, 

Im starting ressers, and i have the following models currently 

Seamus crew box 
mcmourning Crew box
Molly Crew box
3 drowned 
jaakuna
Flesh construct 
2 dead doxies 
2 extra belles
yin
rogue necro 
izamu 
2 autopsies 
5 canine remains
2 necro punks 
3 punk zombies

toshihro the daimyo 

yans crew 

 

Is there anything lacking fro that list to attempt to play competativly ?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Very good collection. Ultimately I think you'd be fine but of course it Depends. I see a few summoning options missing that I'd grab. Additionally you are arguably missing the best Killy resser master, which I might consider adding to the roster.

If you ever plan to play Spirit Molly or Kirai (Kirai being arguably the strongest resser master) I'd definitely want the ability to summon the Hanged and Shikome. Certainly I'd want Goryo when they are released in March. Night Terrors would also be something to consider.

Master wise I think you are ok, but I'd consider adding Reva to the list.

[generalbear]

i own kirai but nothng really spirit based at the moment, and kinda spent all my money on the above lot, i deliberatly ommitted her from the list as i know ill need datsue ba, etc 

[Fetid Strumpet]

Not saying you should play her. Spirit Molly is also very strong which is why I recommended the spirit purchases. I think in retrospect the only model that I'd really consider purchasing next is the Carrion Emissary. Pretty good with with all masters, very good with Reva, a pretty strong consideration for Seamus and Nico.

[verpixelt]

I get the point that you wanna build up your collection to be able to pick from the best models available, but how about you try and play / learn the models you have first, before you add more stuff you don't know how to play in various situations? Just bc I now tell you to buy the Emissary (okay dang, the Emissary is probably a bad example :P) doesn't necessarily mean you need it / it suits your play style. I don't mean it offensively in any way, just as an advice  You already have a pretty good collection which will keep you busy for quite some time. 

[godswearhats]

To echo / summarize other poster's comments: you'll need practice more than models to play competitively. What you have is fine for probably your first 20-30 games.

If you like collecting, however, and you're looking for an idea of what to get next because you're addicted to plastic crack, I'd suggest:

1. Carrion Emissary (good all-round)
2. Rafkin (good with McMourning)
3. Datsue Ba (good with Seamus, Spirit Molly, Kirai)
4. Hanged (feared by all, spirit summon)
5. Shikome (spirit summon)
6. Goryo (spirit summon)
7. Bete Noire (good for certain crew/scheme combos)

However, I'd advise just assembling and playing what you have for at least three months before buying anything more.

[Bengt]

You should get the Carrion Effigy because he's a cute little plague doctor.

Also if you get into Spirits you should get some Gakis since they can be summoned with triggers by both Kirai and Datsue Ba. They are also relatively cheap summons with Blood and Wind/The One Left Behind that can quite useful in some situations (e.g. clearing corpse markers, scaring Gremlins).

[Clement]

1 hour ago, godswearhats said:

 

However, I'd advise just assembling and playing what you have for at least three months before buying anything more.

What this man said.  The relative power curve of models in Malifaux is pretty flat compared  to other games; the skill of the player has a MUCH MUCH larger impact on the outcome then what "power models" you might have taken.  Generally speaking, you can grab any random master, and snag a crew of their obvious synergies and do alright.   Spend your first few months running a bit of everything and figuring out what every model in your current pile "does" before you add more, you have no duds in the bunch.

 

Full disclaimer:  Obvious synergies.

McMourning:  Things that poison and things that like poison being out

Molly:   Belles and Horror/Spirits (likely horrors for you based on list)

Seamus: Things that have WP duels/horror

Yan Lo: Ancestors (Each ancestor has a pretty obvious job.  You won't have the points to take them all and do well, but they're all good in different situations)

[spooky_squirrel]

2 hours ago, godswearhats said:

To echo / summarize other poster's comments: you'll need practice more than models to play competitively. What you have is fine for probably your first 20-30 games.

However, I'd advise just assembling and playing what you have for at least three months before buying anything more.

 

16 minutes ago, Clement said:

What this man said.  The relative power curve of models in Malifaux is pretty flat compared  to other games; the skill of the player has a MUCH MUCH larger impact on the outcome then what "power models" you might have taken.  Generally speaking, you can grab any random master, and snag a crew of their obvious synergies and do alright.   Spend your first few months running a bit of everything and figuring out what every model in your current pile "does" before you add more, you have no duds in the bunch.

 

These two remarks should probably get stickies for all factions. It's the biggest thing I appreciate about Malifaux collecting: I can grab what I like the look of and will enjoy painting, and still be able to use it on the table. Maybe not in a tournament against someone who has been streamlining their hiring pool and crew construction for specific strat/scheme pools and getting a lot of practice--but let's face it, even so-called "optimal" tools aren't much help against someone who has been doing their homework unless my homework has also been done.

[Lord Malkom]

On 20.1.2017 at 7:00 PM, godswearhats said:

To echo / summarize other poster's comments: you'll need practice more than models to play competitively. What you have is fine for probably your first 20-30 games.

If you like collecting, however, and you're looking for an idea of what to get next because you're addicted to plastic crack, I'd suggest:

1. Carrion Emissary (good all-round)
2. Rafkin (good with McMourning)
3. Datsue Ba (good with Seamus, Spirit Molly, Kirai)
4. Hanged (feared by all, spirit summon)
5. Shikome (spirit summon)
6. Goryo (spirit summon)
7. Bete Noire (good for certain crew/scheme combos)

However, I'd advise just assembling and playing what you have for at least three months before buying anything more.

 

For which crews and scheme combos is Bete Noire good? I own her but haven't used her very effectively by now.

 

Why is Datsue Ba good with Seamus? I often read that she is the best Resser Henchmen.

[mojopin]

2 hours ago, Lord Malkom said:

Why is Datsue Ba good with Seamus? I often read that she is the best Resser Henchmen.

Seamus reduces enemy wp so datsue hits easier (targets WP)  and everytime she gains a wp duel heals 2wd on seamus. 

[unti]

Also you can hide behind two summoned seishin who ported to seamus at the beginning of his activation to use his backalley action

[Four_N_Six]

2 hours ago, unti said:

Also you can hide behind two summoned seishin who ported to seamus at the beginning of his activation to use his backalley action

That's how I did it in a recent game.  Boy, was my opponent not happy with that trick.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I don't have as good luck with it as generally there are vantage points on our tables. One person on a vantage point just doesn't care about the Seishin as they can still draw LoS.

[Lord Malkom]

Isn't Datsue Ba's Summon a 0 action? so how can she summon 2?

[unti]

I meant that she summons them over two turns...

[Four_N_Six]

49 minutes ago, unti said:

I meant that she summons them over two turns...

Yeah, that's the trick.  I mean, in a Seamus crew, unless you're up against a specific type of opponent, what else are they doing?

[unti]

On the other hand we have our nice new upgrade "my little helper". So you could summon them in one round

[Mutter]

With Spirit Beacon, she can get a lot more than 1 Seishin per round ...

[godswearhats]

While all the comments that other posters have made are valid, I find that the most value from Datsue Ba comes from her Weigh Sins action. Being able to kill an enemy model and turn it into a Gaki or an Onryo is a pretty massive swing. While neither of those models are particularly amazing, they are Minions, and so can Interact - they also come in with full wounds, which is particularly good on the Onryo who is also Incorporeal. Her Weigh Sins is min damage 1, but plenty of models have an odd number of wounds or Hard to Kill. Seamus can do an even amount of damage (4, 6, 8) and leave a model on one wound for Datsue Ba to then turn into a Gaki. If I think there will be a lot of combat in the turn, I'll leave Datsue Ba close to the end of my activations.

A few more points: she is Terrifying (All) 12, which is yet another Wp duel to be overcome. If you don't get an 8 in your hand for summoning a Seishin, you can also use one of her two built-in zero actions: Denial of Sanzu is great for messing with your opponent's plans, or you can move another Spirit around if you have any. Having a Cg of 8 with Incorporeal is excellent maneuverability in a faction that is often slow moving.

[benjoewoo]

As a quick note since people are discussing Seishin and Datsue-ba bringing Wp duels. If you run Sinister Reputation on Seamus, the Seishin essentially have Ml 6 as their melees target Wp when Sin Rip is in effect, which Seamus can debuff with the upgrade. Bring in a crooligan, and you have a Ml 7 Seishin who can heal Seamus on succeeding the duel, regardless of damage going through. 

I often find Datsue-ba likes to summon seishin for activation control, non-paralyzing healing, and the ability to turn the table with a gaki summon off a non-activated model--I rarely go for the onryo unless I flip the mask or was going to cheat it anyway--adversary for follow up or the gaki are just fine. 

I think one of the reasons she's great with Seamus is she enhances Seamus' ability to hire spirits, which seem to be largely better than the non-spirits when considering multiple model synergies. While most of the spirits are priced for summoning, enforcers, Datsue-ba, and a one off of a any given spirit minion, are all decent hires overall once you go past the 5 SS cost level. Jaakuna's Lure is printed Ca 6, but is Ca 8 if Sin Rep is in effect, and with the recent Belle errata, is a great belle sub in with the benefit of two auras of damage (assuming you run Unnerving Aura), spirit synergy (Lure with plus flips assuming adversary), and an absurd Ml 9 against Wp assuming Sin rep is in effect (out of activation heals on disengaging strikes for ensuring Unnerving Aura pings the enemy model) for 2 SS more compared to a rotten belle's Ca 7/9 Lure, Ca 5/7 Undress, and potential extra mobility via Sybelle. Trade offs, yes, but I find that I'd rather have Jaakuna and a belle if I can afford it rather than another belle.

Even if you're not going to kill a model with Datsue-ba's Ca action, your opponent fights a somewhat uphill mental battle in deciding to cheat against it if you use it to poke, put on adversary, or heal Seamus. If Sin Rep is in effect, it's effectively Ca 8 vs. Wp and only needs a 7 for the TN. It'll heal Seamus, but if the opponent is already looking at a negative flip on damage with min. 1, it's a tough call to cheat to beat Datsue-ba's flip just to avoid the heal on Seamus considering Datsue-ba's relative skill strength in the duel and the lack of high damage potential outside of an RJ. Assuming the kill isn't needed, the heal will go off regardless of actual damage as well provided Datsue-ba succeeds in the duel. 

Sybelle has General AP Wp duels as well, but it brings a chance of randomization, and she is often not as close to the battle as Datsue-ba, driving belles around and/or not being quite as durable to typical attack actions (+3 wds on Datsue-ba, but the latter has incorporeal). Sybelle's 0 Wp duel options are also more limited than Datsue-ba, who can summon Seishin who also cause Wp duels, denial of Sanzu, and moving other models into effective positions (e.g. Jaakuna to keep her manipulative and have her aura(s) affect enemy models).

I don't think anyone's mentioned Nurses--you have two from the McMourning box. They're stupid good if Sin Rep is in effect with a Ca 8 action to really hamper any model that might seek to do you harm--KJ bomb doesn't mean much if your nurse can get a paralyze, only allow walk/interact actions, forces negative flips on all duels, or prevents any movement via only allowing melee attacks. KJ is only scary with a 6/7/9 track when he can reach your people. 

The Bag O'Tools can be useful, don't get me wrong, but in GG 2017 it's generically less useful than Sin Rep and the combos you can pull with it. Seamus is durable because of his uncapped healing from Wp duels, and Sin Rep directly helps that while the Bag can only conditionally help (by killing non-activated enemy models).

[godswearhats]

1 hour ago, benjoewoo said:

Even if you're not going to kill a model with Datsue-ba's Ca action, your opponent fights a somewhat uphill mental battle in deciding to cheat against it if you use it to poke, put on adversary, or heal Seamus. If Sin Rep is in effect, it's effectively Ca 8 vs. Wp and only needs a 7 for the TN.

Sadly it will still need a 9 for the Ca to go off, because the Tn of 15 doesn't get lowered. However, it means that your opponent treats it like 17 at a minimum, which is the point I think you were trying to make.

And yes, I only ever run Sinister Reputation Seamus. I've read a few comments on how Bag 'o Tools might prove handy for things like Dig Their Graves, but frankly I don't want my Df 4 Master in combat if I can avoid it.

[benjoewoo]

Yes whoops on getting carried away with adding to the actual skill for Datsue-ba's Weigh Sins attack.

I agree and think Dig Their Graves is a trap for taking the Bag--it would seem good, but you're giving up -2Wp and more consistent healing to try and score a scheme with a 2/4/5 track. I think Seamus with Sin Rep is actually someone people want to run from or just let walk away--failing the Terrifying 12 out of activation is incredibly dangerous just to try and prevent the Df 4 master from walking away, especially at -2Wp.

I'd consider taking the Bag if I knew I had to drop a lot of scheme markers quickly, didn't care if I successfully killed the targets I was hitting, and Seamus was my only viable choice for consistency. Hidden Trap and Set up come to mind, with Bag probably an auto-take if both are in the pool, and consideration worthy if one was in the pool and there was at least one other scheme marker based scheme. But, I'd almost always take Sin Rep unless both were present.