Mathifaux

[Uktena]

So, I feel like I know what the answer's going to be...but I'm still curious if I'm missing something.  Modifiers are handled in order of multiplication, division, addition, and subtraction I believe - according to the Math call out in the rulebook.

 

So if Baby Kade hits a target for Moderate Damage that is engaged with another unit from Kade's crew and triggers Sweetbreads, what would you do?

 

1. No multipliers.  Divide Kade's damage flip in half.  Add Engagement Bonus, add Sweetbreads bonus.  Total Damage: 5.

 

2. No multipliers.  Divide Kade's damage flip, Engagement Bonus, and Sweetbreads in half.  Add Engagement Bonus, add Sweetbreads bonus.  Total Damage: 3.

 

My thoughts are that it's option 2, due to the wording of Incorporeal, but the math callout makes me wonder if option 1 is getting done by anyone.

[doubledragon]

I would say option 2. That makes more sense with what the rulebook says about order of modifiers and with what incorporeal says. So, divide everything in half first, then add them together.

[The Godlyness]

Add all damage up then before its applied half it.

[Dracomax]

The problem is that technically, this one requires the full mathematical sequence of PEMDAS.

As it should be written 1/2 (damage +engagement +sweetbreads)

 

However, because we have the communicative property in math,

 

It can be expressed as 1/2 damage+ 1/2 engagement bonus + 1/2 sweetbreads.

 

So both Doubledragondyl and godlyness can both be right! Isn't math fun?!

[Ausplosions]

Option 2.

[NinjaBreadMen]

I would have thought option 1, as if we apply the same logic be to a critical strike trigger:

 

Moderate damage with Critical strike * 3 would be worked out

 

1. 3dmg + 1dmg + 1dmg + 1dmg = 6

    6/2

    = 3dmg

 

2. (3/2dmg = 2) + (1/2dmg = 1) + (1/2dmg = 1) + (1/2dmg = 1)

    = 5dmg

 

And our group's never played critical strike as seperate instances of 1 damage, as that would cut straight through armour for one thing. Though that's just my understanding of it.

[Dracomax]

I would assume that you don't round until the last step.

 

I.e.

(3/2=1.5)+(1/2=.5) +(1/2=.5)+(1/2=.5)=3

[Nagash1959]

I always took the usage of "deal X amount of damage" to be a separate step in the math for suffering damage. So you'd follow the math rule to find out how much Kade would deal, then go through the math steps again for the model suffering the damage. Which also gave a clear order for Armor if you were also incorporeal.

[Tuttleboy]

I divide by zero.

[Dracomax]

I divide by zero.

That will either approach your limit, or end the universe as everything becomes undefined.

[Tuttleboy]

Hmmm...guess I'll have to go with the limit thing.

[MinimumPhase]

However, because we have the communicative property in math,

 

It can be expressed as 1/2 damage+ 1/2 engagement bonus + 1/2 sweetbreads.

 

So both Doubledragondyl and godlyness can both be right! Isn't math fun?!

 

Actually, the property is that multiplication is distributive over addition.

 

Commutivity means that the order of the operands in a binary operation does not matter; for example, a+b=b+a.

 

The result is correct: as long as rounding is the final step, adding then halving gives the same result as halving then adding.

[HalcyonSeraph]

Actually, the property is that multiplication is distributive over addition.

 

Commutivity means that the order of the operands in a binary operation does not matter; for example, a+b=b+a.

 

The result is correct: as long as rounding is the final step, adding then halving gives the same result as halving then adding.

 

Most people would round as part of the halving step, though, wherever that occurs. It's not intuitive to say that 5 damage becomes 2.5 and then you add 2 to get 4.5 and then round up to 5. If you tell people teh order doesn't matter they're going to round when they divide.

[Dracomax]

SO most people don't do basic math? because that is basic math. There is no point at which I would find rounding at each step of an operation to be anything other than bad math. That kind of thing ends up with nations in debt, astronauts lost forever, and Global warming estimates of the seas rising 10 feet by 2020. Also, I'm pretty sure it would give me at least another 10 miles per gallon in gas mileage.

 

If people are not being taught to instinctively round at the end of the operation, we really, really need to fix our education system.

[HalcyonSeraph]

SO most people don't do basic math? because that is basic math. There is no point at which I would find rounding at each step of an operation to be anything other than bad math. That kind of thing ends up with nations in debt, astronauts lost forever, and Global warming estimates of the seas rising 10 feet by 2020. Also, I'm pretty sure it would give me at least another 10 miles per gallon in gas mileage.

 

If people are not being taught to instinctively round at the end of the operation, we really, really need to fix our education system.

 

If they're doing a math problem on paper, sure. But if you tell someone in a game to split the damage in half and then add bonuses, I would bet most of them wouldn't automatically think to carry decimal damage through to the next step. 

[Kadeton]

Which is why it's probably best not to talk about distributive properties in this case. There are two separate operations here: determine the total damage, then halve that total to get the damage applied.

[Snakeshit]

I think its all from 1 damage source. So you would add all the damage first so that's 6 damage. Now that the amount of damage you are doing to the model is established now you read incorporeal and it says halve damage dealt by ML.

 

That's my understanding. If the damage was from 2 different sources then you half each source.  

[Uktena]

I think its all from 1 damage source. So you would add all the damage first so that's 6 damage. Now that the amount of damage you are doing to the model is established now you read incorporeal and it says halve damage dealt by ML.

 

That's my understanding. If the damage was from 2 different sources then you half each source.  

In a way yes, except that Incorporeal is the "divide" step before any damage from a source is applied.  So in any case with multiple modifiers, say Armor, Incorporeal, Critical Strike, Sweetbreads, etc; it's not a case of base damage being MDAS'd and then each instance of modifer being MDAS'd.  Everything that's headed into the target is multiplied/divided/added/subtracted in that order and THEN applied.  So it does work with Incorporeal.  The question becomes how do you apply the MDAS functions because it seems people can have different methods that earn different results.

[Snakeshit]

I read carving knife again I think the +2 to damage from engagement is added before damage is dealt making it 4 damage if it is moderate. You add the damage before you even take the ML attack its changing the stat of carving knife to 3/4/6.