Ikvar's question corner

[Ikvar]

I am a hechman with a lot of players, and with a lot of players comes many random questions. However I am also a very busy man, and sometimes I am asked questions that I simply dont know the answer to, or are not certain enough to give a confident answer to them. So instead of letting them wait for weeks, until I have time to look through all the rules, I thought I would make this thread to ask all of you wonderful people!

- And in an attempt to also give something back to you guys, I will be updating this first post with the questions and asnwers I get through the thread. So in time this post will hopefully be able to help some of you guys in return!

__________________________________________

Q. When does poison activate?

A. Poison condition is resolved in the upkeep phase, which is after all models have activated but before you begin the next turn.

Q. If a character stands at a vantage point(on a cliff), can other characters shoot at him aswell?

A. Vantage point works both ways. if you can see them, they can see you.

Q. Can you buy models and upgrades for you SS cache?

A. You can not spend your starting cache on models or upgrades.

Q. How exactly does cheating on a dmg flip work?

A. You can cheat a damage flip just like a duel, as long as the flip is not subject to a negative flip. the card you place from your hand replaces the flipped card.

Q. How does focus stack and what is the effect?

A1. You can stack focus all you want, just remember it is removed at the end of the turn.

A2. 1+ focus gives 1+ to one action, 2+ focus gives 2+ to one action etc.

Q. When does the 4inch rule apply concerning the vicinity of two scheme markers, and would you get VP if two SM were closer to each other then those 4inches.

A. You can not place a scheme marker within 4inches of each other with the interact action, but if the scheme marker drops from anything else then an interact action, these rules would not apply, and you would indeed get VP even though they are within that lenght.

Q. How exactly does the rules for Vantage Point work?

A. If the model is HT2, and there are 3inches to the edge, there would be no LoS period. However if the Model was HT3, and there are 3inches to the edge, there WOULD be LoS, in which case LoS would be drawn from the characters base ignoring the cliff, and measuring in a diagonal line downwards instead of horizontal. If any line passes through terrain(other then the cliff), of which the targeted model is within 1inch, the target will still get cover, but if any line can still be drawn to the base of the target there will still be LoS making it a valid target.

Q. When does conditions stack?

A. Conditions only stacks if they have a number+ in it, and they have the same name- Poison +1 will therefore stack with poison +2, making the condition +3. the slow condition will however not stack, as there are no number+ in it.

Q. What exactly happens if you loose a horror duel?

Current activation ends. If you are affected by a Horror duel outside your activation (like by an attack spell) then you will forfeit your next activation.

Q. When do you get cover, if you are already within 1inch to the cover?

There must be at least one LOS line that passes through the covering terrain, before you get cover.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Ikvar

[Ikvar]

Thanks for the answers everyone!

Still dont know whether or not you can charge up climbable terrain though, would be awsome if someone could answer that

[Dracomax]

Keeping in mind that Chg requires both LOS and range, and that climbable terrain adds an inch of movement for each inch climbed, If you were in a situation in which you could reach the top of the climbable terrain on which the target stood, or see through the terrain on which the target is on the other side of, and still reach melee range, I don't see why not. that being said, most terrain will make it impossible, because either LOS or distance will not be satisfied.

[Dracomax]

Keeping in mind that Chg requires both LOS and range, and that climbable terrain adds an inch of movement for each inch climbed, If you were in a situation in which you could reach the top of the climbable terrain on which the target stood, or see through the terrain on which the target is on the other side of, and still reach melee range, I don't see why not. that being said, most terrain will make it impossible, because either LOS or distance will not be satisfied.

[Mike3838]

One common example is if there is a small wall (let's say it's 1" tall) between you and the model you are charging. Walls are defined to be impassable, blocking and climbable.

You therefore can't pass through the wall (although you can see over it, assuming you are Ht2) but you can climb over it. The charge action therefore must take into account the extra 1" needed to climb over the wall. Note that the "fall" down the other side doesn't require any movement be spent.

Edge case:

If the wall was higher than 3" (and you somehow managed to charge, requiring LOS - I'm thinking something like Lady Justice who doesn't need to be able to see you to initiate a charge), then the model would climb up one side (costing at least 6"), then fall down the other side (taking damage for the fall), before finishing up the charge move. Theoretically if they had enough charge distance they could spend some of it climbing down the other side of the wall to avoid the fall damage.

[Mike3838]

One common example is if there is a small wall (let's say it's 1" tall) between you and the model you are charging. Walls are defined to be impassable, blocking and climbable.

You therefore can't pass through the wall (although you can see over it, assuming you are Ht2) but you can climb over it. The charge action therefore must take into account the extra 1" needed to climb over the wall. Note that the "fall" down the other side doesn't require any movement be spent.

Edge case:

If the wall was higher than 3" (and you somehow managed to charge, requiring LOS - I'm thinking something like Lady Justice who doesn't need to be able to see you to initiate a charge), then the model would climb up one side (costing at least 6"), then fall down the other side (taking damage for the fall), before finishing up the charge move. Theoretically if they had enough charge distance they could spend some of it climbing down the other side of the wall to avoid the fall damage.

[Dracomax]

One common example is if there is a small wall (let's say it's 1" tall) between you and the model you are charging. Walls are defined to be impassable, blocking and climbable.

You therefore can't pass through the wall (although you can see over it, assuming you are Ht2) but you can climb over it. The charge action therefore must take into account the extra 1" needed to climb over the wall. Note that the "fall" down the other side doesn't require any movement be spent.

Edge case:

If the wall was higher than 3" (and you somehow managed to charge, requiring LOS - I'm thinking something like Lady Justice who doesn't need to be able to see you to initiate a charge), then the model would climb up one side (costing at least 6"), then fall down the other side (taking damage for the fall), before finishing up the charge move. Theoretically if they had enough charge distance they could spend some of it climbing down the other side of the wall to avoid the fall damage.

Honestly, most people I;ve gamed with just consider a 1" anything to be difficult terrain, because it does the same, thing and is simple.

But either way, I think the key is "do you have LOS and enough movement; If so, then you can charge." That being said, I would think this would mean if you have the movement, you could charge a vantage point."

[Dracomax]

One common example is if there is a small wall (let's say it's 1" tall) between you and the model you are charging. Walls are defined to be impassable, blocking and climbable.

You therefore can't pass through the wall (although you can see over it, assuming you are Ht2) but you can climb over it. The charge action therefore must take into account the extra 1" needed to climb over the wall. Note that the "fall" down the other side doesn't require any movement be spent.

Edge case:

If the wall was higher than 3" (and you somehow managed to charge, requiring LOS - I'm thinking something like Lady Justice who doesn't need to be able to see you to initiate a charge), then the model would climb up one side (costing at least 6"), then fall down the other side (taking damage for the fall), before finishing up the charge move. Theoretically if they had enough charge distance they could spend some of it climbing down the other side of the wall to avoid the fall damage.

Honestly, most people I;ve gamed with just consider a 1" anything to be difficult terrain, because it does the same, thing and is simple.

But either way, I think the key is "do you have LOS and enough movement; If so, then you can charge." That being said, I would think this would mean if you have the movement, you could charge a vantage point."

[Ikvar]

Thanks as always guys

Got some new questions again.

A player asked me last time if a minion can ever get an upgrade, his example was with the guild upgrade "Flames of the pit", if a guild marshall can take this upgrade even though it is a minion... btw I hope I got the names right, as I have no clue about the Guild myself ^^

The second question is a bit odd... I am 99% sure that a peon cant place a scheme marker, but when a player asked very insistently where it stands in the books, I simply could not find it. So can anyone help me where exactly it states that a peon cant place a scheme marker?

The last question is about the suit that stand beside the Sh, Ml and Ca. If we take the upgrade for brewmaster as an example, would the mask on the Ca only count towards the TN, or would it also enable BM to always be able to take the Hooch action?... and if not, why is the mask even there to begin with? ^^

- and as an added question to the upgrade "binge", what happens if your opponent simply does not have any cards on his hand anymore?

[Ausplosions]

Minions cannot purchase upgrades.

Peons are definitely allowed to place Scheme Markers. Insignificant models may not.

[rancor709]

1.) Minions cannot buy upgrades only enforcers, Henchman and masters can. main rulebook pg 72 and 55

2.)Nothing restricts a model with Peon from dropping a scheme marker, However most Peons are also "insignificant", "insignificant" is what actually prevents the model from performing interact actions. Additionally most strategies and schemes state non-peon for scoring or interacting purposes

3.The Ca on an action and any suits with it only apply to that action. So in the above example if he was casting Pick your poison he start prior to flipping any cards with a 7:masks you would then flip your card for the attack in the example you flip a 5:tomes meaning your total is 12:masks:tomes in this example your opponent flip a total of 10.

You now get to declare a single trigger you can select either the :masks trigger hootch or the :tomes trigger booz but not both.

[Ikvar]

Some new questions:

 

1. When can you use a zero action?

- Can I fx charge with the Waldgeist and place his forest with his zero action before he uses the two 1AP ML actions?

 

2. Do you get the kill from "passive" abilities like Fear Given form and Black blood?

 

3. Is charge considered a walk action? (I am pretty sure it is not, but I promised to ask ^^)

- If I charge an enemy with another model standing besides him with terrifying, would I have to take a horror duel as I have ended the charge(what my opponent thought would still be a walk) close to the other models terrifying?

 

4. Does Rush of Magic stack?

- if I have both Lilith and Primordial  magic, would I then take 8 cards and discard two?

[Ausplosions]

1: No. You cannot use a (0) during another action.

2: Yes, as it is an ability, not a condition.

3: A charge is not a walk action. But I'm pretty sure terrifying triggers off of bring targeted, AND ending or walk or charge. So the point is moot. But no, a charge is not a walk action. A walk action is a walk action.

4:Yes

[Ikvar]

But terrifying specifically says "end a walk action" and seeing as charge is not a walk action, why would the model be effected in my example?

- remember that in my example the attacking model does not target the model with terrifying, but another model close to the model with terrifying.

[Malicte]

Your assumptions about the charge and terrifying are correct.  You've neither targeted, nor ended a walk action in the engagement range of, a Terrifying model.  Thus, no Terror Check is needed.

[Ausplosions]

But terrifying specifically says "end a walk action" and seeing as charge is not a walk action, why would the model be effected in my example?

- remember that in my example the attacking model does not target the model with terrifying, but another model close to the model with terrifying.

Yes, you are correct. Apologies!

[Ikvar]

If an ability states that something happens when you flip a card, would that include cheating from your hand, or only if you literally flipped a card from your stack of cards?

- fx with an ability like " Leave it to Luck" from Mr. Tannen.

[Lucidicide]

Just when you flip it.

 

Thus Tannen saying "flip or play."

[Tuttleboy]

Flip is from the top of your deck. Cheat is from your hand.

[Ikvar]

If an ability ignores Hard to Wound, would it also ignore the ability Teddy has called Impossibe to Wound?

[Myth]

If an ability ignores Hard to Wound, would it also ignore the ability Teddy has called Impossibe to Wound?

 

No, since they are differently named abilities. In the same way that someone who ignores Armor would not be able to ignore Bullet Proof (which reduces damage from Shooting attacks.) Even if two abilities work similarly to each other, if they have different names, they count as different abilities.

[Ikvar]

This time I have a question about horror duels- we all know that you only need to do one terrifying duel for each model, so when you have won one, you do not have to do it again from the same model and in the same turn.

 

But how exactly does this work with abilities?

 

Widow weaver fx have an attack action that makes the model damaged by the ability, take a TN12 horror duel. But would this then not work if they had already taken the terrifying duel when trying to attack her?

 

Insidiouse madness also have this ability:

"(1) Induce Phobia: All enemy models within p2 must take a TN 10 Horror Duel."

 

Will it only be able to use that ability one time on the same target, as he will be immune to it afterwards?

 

Or does the fact that they are named two different things matter?

the passive on the models are called terrifying, which then causes a horror duel. While the other ones are different abilities which then causes horror duels- in other words, is it only the passive ability "terrifying" that enemy models only need to take one time each turn, while I can spam other abilities causing horror duels multiple times?

[Myth]

No, the limitation is tied to 'Horror duels' directly, not to 'Terrifying'.

 

"A model that passes a Horror Duel may continue to act normally. Additionally, the model is considered Immune to Horror effects from the model that generated the Horror duel until the End Phase of the Turn."

 

Thus, if the Widow Weaver uses her Exhale Terror on a target, and they make the Horror Duel, they could then attack her freely on their own Activation without worrying about Terrifying. But it is important to keep in mind that the immunity is tied to that specific model, not to the ability in question - so if a Doppelganger used Mimic to copy Exhale Terror and use it on the same target, they would still have to make a Horror duel, as they don't have immunity to Horror caused by the Doppelganger.

 

This is often where you find the full power of some models that negate Horror immunities, such as the Hanged or Pandora - if a model has its immunity taken away, then dealing with Widow Weaver can become even more of a challenge, when she might force you to make 3-4 Horror duels in a round.

[The Godlyness]

Also if they fail you can make them take another horror duel. Which could be another card.

[Ikvar]

And yet another questions about vantage point, or the lack of it from a hill:

 

Last night I played on a board where all the cliffs and hills was only HT2, so we were unsure if the people on the cliff would ever be able to shoot down from it, as he would not get the vantage point, and unless the model stands on the very edge of the cliff, the lines from his base would pass through the cliff... But the question is if even the model were to stand on the very edge, would he be able to shoot?

and if yes, would he only be able to shoot things that are right in front of him, as the lines from the base would yet again pass through the cliff if he was to shoot at anything from the sides...

[Joel]

Yes he can shoot. Th vantage point rules state that a model stood on a vantage point can draw a line of sight through the terrain piece they are stood on providing that they are within their Ht of the edge.

So a Ht 2 model within 2" of the edge of the cliff can shoot at things below him that the cliff obstructs.

You can claim vantage point from a piece of Ht2 or higher terrain, so in your example, the hill would certainly have counted.