M2E Marcus

[Adran]

one of the best Viks assasination tools I know is a Cerberus with Imbued energies.

It can charge a model  20" away, which can bypass a lot of Terrain. That ability to leap should allow you to keep it safe until you're ready, so its still got its pluses due to 3 headed. It can kill a Vik in 2 hits, even if they are hard to kill, and it has the Maul trigger to allow it to make more attacks.

 

Its almost certainly going to die in any counter attack though. But if its death disrupts your opponents plans, then its all good.

[dgraz]

Agreed on not bunching up.......you could conceivably have two models 12" apart and still be in scoring position.

 

I agree on the Cerberus missile of toothy death..........my only concern with it in this match-up is an abundance of shooting. With some movement tricks getting a bead on it wouldn't be too hard then you seriously reduce it's effectiveness with just a few wounds. That's why I was thinking the BoD.....just as fast, high Ml (not as good as plus flips but still good), decent damage track (with a trigger to bump the damage a little), she also has a trigger that lets her attack again........she has H2W and isn't dependent on her Wd stat to be effective.

[Kadeton]

The only issue with the Raptors and the BoD is that Izikial specified that he's only got Wave 1 models. Still, they're great ideas for things to pick up down the track.

 

One issue with the Cerberus missile is that the Viks can easily kill it from similar range. However, that nets you four cards and an activated Vik B way out of position, so it would make an excellent bait or counter-attack.

 

If I were up against that, I'd be very tempted to have Hans shoot the Imbued Energies off it on the first turn.

[dgraz]

Hmmm......I totally missed the bit about only having Wave 1 models. There are so many great things in Wave 2 that it really takes away a good bit of the Marcus tool box.....and that's what Marcus is all about, having the right tool for the job.

[izikial]

i can proxie wave 2 its just not ideal, kadeton if I do proxie are raptors and bod good?

[Kadeton]

Yep, they're pretty solid. The Raptors I can't say much about because I tend not to run gun-heavy Viks crews, but the Blessed is another great bait/counter model - dangerous and fast enough that the Viks can't ignore the threat, but not so valuable that killing it alone would turn the tide. It's got the suit for its Leap built-in, which tends to put it above the Cerberus in my estimation, but they're pretty much about the same.

[Vanilla_Dice]

Gave Marcus a run last night in recon, up against nicodem I ran the following:

Marcus, trail gods, arcane res, feral

Miranda, skin walk, imbued energies

Blessed of December

2 x silurids

Jackalope

Malifaux raptor

Was an interesting game, basically managed to hold the ressers to one quarter of the board, I scored 10VP with prot territory and make them suffer my schemes.

A raptor to unbury behind the crew as a jump out point for myranda worked awesome, raptor and the kaki lope just distracted the ressers for a turn while the rest of my crew closed in.

Myranda later turned into Cerberus, the amount of leap in my crew made it an amazingly agile lot.

[dgraz]

Cool. How'd the BoD do for you......I really like her and think she is under utilized.

[Vanilla_Dice]

Yeah she was fantastic, a really mobile model that can apply the hurt to un-armoured and non-construct things pretty easy,.

Having the ability for extra attacks or a push once your finished is also awesome!

[Sandals]

I played another game with Marcus on Monday against Mei Feng. I'm only just learning the game, but I thought I'd share some thoughts on the models I used.

 

Strategy was Reckoning, Schemes were LitS, Deliver the Message, Frame for Murder, Bodyguard and Breakthrough.

 

I decided to try the "big hitters" crew, as there were plenty of schemes that didn't need scheme markers being placed. I picked Deliver the Message and announced it, and Frame for Murder.

 

My crew was:

Marcus - Trail of the Gods, Feral Instincts, Hunger Cry (Which I never used)

Myranda - Imbued Energies

Cojo

Rattler

Rogue Necro

Dawn Serpent (proxied!)

Night Terror

 

The Night Terror was the guy I decided to Frame - I hoped that I could get him close to Mei (or Joss, once he showed up!) and that they would kill him easily for the Strategy giving me points. However my opponent saw through that rather easily and the Terror survived the game. He did manage to hold up Joss for a turn though, as he failed to disengage twice.

Cojo was run over by a Rail Golem, but with some great defense flips and H2K it took longer than it should have. I also used the Rude Sign Language to bunch up some guys for a strafing run by the Serpent.

The Rattler was a non-entity, as it was taken out Turn 1 by a Mei Feng to the face. She hits rather hard from a long way away it seems!

The point of the list though, the two big shooter models, were both great. The Dawn Serpent's Call to the Chi was amazing when combined with H2K (and Myranda) as it just would not die! It also managed to kill some Rail Workers with it's shooting, and I can see me using it again - especially in Reckoning. The Rogue Necro wasn't as good, though the Three Headed meant it was consistently getting good hits in, both in melee and from range. I think the lack of Unimpeded may be an issue, as I couldn't advance it into melee as easily as some of the other Beasts, and it meant that I wasn't using it's other Action a lot of the time. I think it is still pretty good though, and with Impossible to Wound it was very good in the Strategy too

(an aside for this - combining that with cheating in a 5 stopped him being splatted by Joss in one hit! )

 

I did miss the usual feeling of out-activating my opponent with this crew, and for schemes that would require some more Interactions then I'd really be missing the extra bodies. For this combination though it seemed like a decent crew and I would consider using all of them again.

 

Hope someone gets something from this!

[brdparker]

Had a very silly crew concept earlier today, and I'm curious to see what people think of it. Best with Turf War, I think.

 

Basic concept it to max out Marcus's cache and use whatever tools necessary to gain more throughout the game. He'll go on sniping runs as necessary and generally hold the entire enemy army at bay, SS damage prevent everything that comes his way. Defensive stance will be your friend. Here's a tentative 35 SS list:

 

3+4 cache Marcus (kill things, alpha a beatstick to destroy its friends)

- 1 Trail of the Gods (+2 damage, +3 Wk to get in the enemy's face, melee expert)

- 1 Recharge Soulstone (Extra SS's... almost every crew has at least one living model, and some will give you even more)

- 1 Hunger Cry (Dominate)

6 SS Miner (+1 SS/turn, and unbury T1 in Turf War Zone)

6 SS Miner (Same as above)

3 Raptor (Embeasten the Miners)

7 Myranda (Heal the Miners once beasts. Turn into cerberus to help Marcus late game)

6 Oxfordian Mage (Cheap M&SU Enforcer)

- 1 Bleeding Tech Edge (Regen +1 for Miners)

 

Obviously, this doesn't go well against crews that can push away, and is in no way meant to be competitive, but should this work, Marcus should have access to average 2 damage prevention per SS, which gives him (at minimum of 17 SS's during the game... yeah, really) an effective 46 health. Guys, it's a rampaging Marcus with 46 health. How does that not sound fun?

[zFiend]

the amount of leap in my crew made it an amazingly agile lot.

 

I think that might be a really big understatement  

 

No, really, Marcus is amazing, the things he can do with the beasts and himself really make him an insanely good and competitive Master. Just.. Insane. 

 

I can say that my Nicodem is still crying in fear of Marcus.

[Vanilla_Dice]

I think that might be a really big understatement

No, really, Marcus is amazing, the things he can do with the beasts and himself really make him an insanely good and competitive Master. Just.. Insane.

I can say that my Nicodem is still crying in fear of Marcus.

We can have a rematch if you'd like at some point?

[brdparker]

Yep, I enjoy playing Marcus v Nico. Had a game once where I had my Jack near his horde on turn 2, and he didn't want to kill it for fear of Killjoy popping out. So I alpha'ed his Punk Zombie, and slice and diced the entire clump (I think the pulse hit 5 or 6 models, and damaged about half of them... low Df), killed my Jackalope, and brought out the great horror that is Killjoy. KJ's a terrifying thing when he comes out, but if he's predicated by 3 or 6 damage to much of the rest of your crew, it's downright vicious.

[dgraz]

Had a very silly crew concept earlier today, and I'm curious to see what people think of it. Best with Turf War, I think.

 

I'm pretty biased against this kind of list because I like to play all Beasts, so take me with a grain of sand.

 

I generally don't care for the 'turn my own guys into beasts' trick....because it's resource intensive....it's exponentially worse the more models you need to beast-out. It requires the suit (which you may not draw)....it burns AP.....and it dictates your activation order.

 

You're plan with Marcus could easily get him killed pretty quick....one bad flip at the wrong time could end him. Df 5 is easily overcome even with Defensive....especially if he is running solo without anything other than what he will 'hopefully' turn beast to 'Defend Me'.......and, if you're using his AP for Defensive, then he isn't really running around like you say he should be.....either way, I don't know how one model with a 2" reach is 'keeping the entire enemy crew at bay'.

 

Also not sure how effective the Miners will be.....I'm not overly familiar with them, so maybe I have this wrong.....so they wait to become beasts, then bury and unbury for Turf War?......then spend all their time digging SS....which damages them?......then the Mage and Myranda stand around behind them to grant Regen and Healing.....hopefully before someone takes a shot at the already self-damaged miners to finish them off? Seems like a big investment to basically just sit still and farm a couple of SS.

 

It certainly seems gimmicky....which you said it wasn't competitive.......it seems like possibly when the winds swing your way it could be pretty fun/funny......but I think it's a very small compass point worth of wind....and once it swings in any other direction...it just won't work out.

[zFiend]

We can have a rematch if you'd like at some point?

 

Most likely I have lost my mind but definitely!

[Bengt]

If you chain activates to Marcus, can he use Alpha? You are only allowed to do two activation in a row, but would the targeted model activate under Marcus' control once the opposing crew has had a go?

[brdparker]

If you chain activates to Marcus, can he use Alpha? You are only allowed to do two activation in a row, but would the targeted model activate under Marcus' control once the opposing crew has had a go?

 

Nope, common question. The two models that are activating in a chain are Marcus and the alpha target, and they use up those two slots.

 

 

I'm pretty biased against this kind of list because I like to play all Beasts, so take me with a grain of sand.

 

I generally don't care for the 'turn my own guys into beasts' trick....because it's resource intensive....it's exponentially worse the more models you need to beast-out. It requires the suit (which you may not draw)....it burns AP.....and it dictates your activation order.

 

You're plan with Marcus could easily get him killed pretty quick....one bad flip at the wrong time could end him. Df 5 is easily overcome even with Defensive....especially if he is running solo without anything other than what he will 'hopefully' turn beast to 'Defend Me'.......and, if you're using his AP for Defensive, then he isn't really running around like you say he should be.....either way, I don't know how one model with a 2" reach is 'keeping the entire enemy crew at bay'.

 

Also not sure how effective the Miners will be.....I'm not overly familiar with them, so maybe I have this wrong.....so they wait to become beasts, then bury and unbury for Turf War?......then spend all their time digging SS....which damages them?......then the Mage and Myranda stand around behind them to grant Regen and Healing.....hopefully before someone takes a shot at the already self-damaged miners to finish them off? Seems like a big investment to basically just sit still and farm a couple of SS.

 

It certainly seems gimmicky....which you said it wasn't competitive.......it seems like possibly when the winds swing your way it could be pretty fun/funny......but I think it's a very small compass point worth of wind....and once it swings in any other direction...it just won't work out.

 

I dunno, I've had the man hold off entire crews by himself before by alphaing the right target and debuffing other "right" targets. It's about knowing the lynchpin in the opponent's tactics. And if you're using cards and SS's for only one model, that model's going to get the best your hand allows. For the occasional enemy getting past and downing a miner, Marcus should be engaging the real threats early enough to keep them as far away as possible, and the Ox Mage is actually pretty damned good at keeping things away. Higher points, toss in another Mage or a fast helper to go with Marcus (a la Cerberus).

 

That said, I agree about the small compass point, but I would enjoy trying it out and seeing how it does.

[Math Mathonwy]

Piglets, War Pigs, the Sow and Wild Hogs are Beasts. Can anyone come up with a reason to use them with Marcus?

[DeleteAccount]

I wanted to ask for some advice, been seeing lately a very mean alpha strike Marcus list with

 

Marcus, Imbued energies, Trial of the Gods, Arcane Resevoir

Myranda with Imbued energies

Killjoy with Imbued energies

3 raptors

3 guild hounds

 

add jackalope, other hound or canine remains to finish it up

 

The list basically is a turn 1 alpha strike where you have the 3 raptors leap and stall, then have the hounds doing objectives and finish off by barreling Myranda full speed ahead and either using the fast to get into position or just sac her to get the 4 cards and also a Blessed of December/Cerberus and Killjoy in position. Also, Marcus can come barreling at nightmare speed with possible +3 Wk, +2 damage and melee expert. That Marcus can also easily make you a beast and use Darzee's Chaunt as a 0 action to make your defenses a joke only compounds that your master will probably be in very big trouble unless you can deal with 3 heavy duty beatsticks in your face after most likely being activation stalled and praying for initiative on second turn. Also, your movement is very constrained since all 3 raptors land at the most annoying place possible, so it basically locks you down on the defensive on your deployment zone while the hounds do the mission.

 

Has anybody else used this beatstick Marcus configuration that doesn't give a damn about supporting his beasts? Seems pretty lethal to me and should have an easy time destroying your master if you happen to be 18" from Marcus on turn 1 and even if 226" away he can get the charge thanks to Fast.

 

I've played twice vs it, tied the first game thanks to being able to expunge kill between Sebastian and the Chihuahua KillJoy before he could activate, even though Marcus almost killed McMourning turn 1 and on the second turn won initiative and destroyed him with the cerberus's help and the second one was against a user not experienced with the list who I managed to milk for all scheme points possible and then survive thanks to nurse druges and Tara killing Killjoy before he got too out of hand (initiative 2 was vital, had I last Tara would have been dead as well a s big chunk of my crew).

 

Basically, I can sort of see how you can kind of maybe control it with the right scheme setup, but it's still incredibly aggressive and once your master has Darzee's Chaunt on it, it's life is forfeit since stones simply can't compensate for it unless you managed to get Defensive on there and even then, unless it's +2, you'll be devouring stones like candy and with accomplice you will plain get piled on. When arcanists get their new + flip to initiative upgrade it can only get worse and so on.

 

So basically, what can people do to control this playstyle which uses Marcus as one of the best beatsticks in the game?

[dgraz]

Piglets, War Pigs, the Sow and Wild Hogs are Beasts. Can anyone come up with a reason to use them with Marcus?

Only if you just want to play a fun pig list....the problem is you really need to hire the Hog Whisperer, or don't bother. The Hogs might be fun for a delaying tactic.....they're the ones that deploy 'From the Shadows' right? So they could be in the enemy DZ turn 1, but unsupported.

 

I wanted to ask for some advice, been seeing lately a very mean alpha strike Marcus list with

 

Marcus, Imbued energies, Trial of the Gods, Arcane Resevoir

Myranda with Imbued energies

Killjoy with Imbued energies

3 raptors

3 guild hounds

 

add jackalope, other hound or canine remains to finish it up

 

 

So basically, what can people do to control this playstyle which uses Marcus as one of the best beatsticks in the game?

Seems pretty evil. The Myranda/Killjoy double Imbued Energy delivery seems mean as hell. Turn 1 not so much...just Killjoy (which is great by himself, but not unstoppable) as whatever beast Myranda turns into will be Slow...so no Charge....MAY still be able to do something IF you have the cards for the extra attack triggers AND Leap.

 

There's some issue with Marcus.......first is obviously that you're opponent knows the configuration, so if you see ToG and Energies on Marcus, you know he could conceivably Charge into your DZ turn 1. Again, this is a little card dependent. I've gone games where I haven't drawn any Tomes for the first few turns to be able to power ToG and without the +2 damage his damage is garbage (and honestly, even with it he isn't hitting with the power of a pure beater like Lady J that could easily do 6 damage on a Weak hit)....he also needs the Melee Expert to really hit hard....and he's Ml 6, so it's not a guarantee that he will hit....he has no way to get plus flips on his attacks.

 

I assume the Arcane Reservoir Upgrade is to try and make sure you have the Tomes to use. But there's another MASSIVE issue with the configuration you discuss. You say he can cast Darzhee on you....well, first that only works on beasts......'well it's easy to turn you into a beast' you say.......how exactly is he doing that? By burning a stone for a Tome on his first charge attack to get Feral (and he can't interrupt his next charge attack to cast Darzhee)....because with all the other card requirements mentioned so far....how many Tomes is he drawing in turn 1? Even by turn 2 he probably wouldn't have enough to fuel himself and a Cerberus.......because here's the really big issue with this build......he doesn't have the Feral Instincts Upgrade.....so no Feral to give beast at range, and no Instinctual to do a second (0) action for Darzhee.

 

The other minor weakness is that for this to work, you really want at least Marcus/Myranda to go late turn and you're really not out-activating the opponent by much so that may be an issue depending on who wins initiative.

 

I have no doubt that turn 2 the Marcus crew would be set up to wreak havoc, but again....still card dependent and by then the opponent gets a chance to do something.........with the right cards, Marcus could dish out quite a bit of damage....but certainly no worse than say Yan Lo or Lilith pulling you into their lines to beat on you or allow their crew to beat on you......and hopefully, that damage isn't mitigated by a high Df, or Armor, or H2W, or H2K, or SS Prevention............and depending on the enemy, Marcus could be in quite a bit of danger himself by going after a master in the heart of their own crew....he could just be sacrificing himself to get the kill......then all you have left is one big beast and Killjoy....both may be tough, but again not unstoppable and then what do you have left for Turns 3-5? A couple of Insignificant Raptors and some possibly insignificant Guild Hounds?

 

With a windfall of luck, this would be brutal early game......but that's extremely unlikely.......it would be much more effective with this build to be more patient.....build a hand then unleash.....dance around for a little while, then decimate the enemy once they've spread out a little....probably around turn 3.

 

I'm usually fairly aggressive with Marcus, but I've never really gone all in like you mention with this list.....so that's just my theory on it after playing Marcus for a while.

 

YMMV.

[DeleteAccount]

Well, thing is it's been pretty dominant in my meta and people literally go to tournies thinking how to counter that list. Using a stone to turn the enemy into a beast is quite worth it and since Darzee's chaunt is a Ca of 7, it has very good odds at connecting with most masters. Once stuck on, Weak damage 4 is enough, specially if he manages to get the Chaunt in and even then, it's the problem of having too many high priority targets in a short order. He has 7-8 activations before having to use Myranda and after she sacs, he still has the summoned critter, Killjoy and Marcus to activate. If you use Fast on Myranda, she can cover 18" too so maybe the cerberus/blessed won't even need to jump to make it's presence felt in that turn (murdered Rafkin in a single action after triggering extra attacks constantly, my hand was already depleted after Tara pseudotanking Killjoy).

 

It's not unbeatable, but it's not exactly a cake walk either. It is playing a very risky game I won't deny, since if Marcus fails to get initiative on turn 2, he can be very open to very scary things, but if he managed to seal it on turn 1 or wins initiative on turn 2, it can cause so much damage in such a short time frame that it can utterly destroy any sort of momentum you could have. Since you are now with scary beat sticks and the parrots are engaging a lot of areas, you become muddled and your scheme play grinds to a halt.

 

I highly suggest you use this list a couple of times if possible to see it's power, when I first saw it I thought it was just some crazy gimmick while wondering where the beasts were, then I took it to the face, lost McMourning by the start of turn 2 with him not doing anything and I at least was lucky enough to be able to react to Killjoy to kill him before Marcus came in, debuffed me and accompliced with him.

 

It's not a crew for any situation, since with Deliver the message and Plant explosives I knew I could achieve it without much if any effort, but in more killy based schemes and strategies it's pure death.

[dgraz]

Well, thing is it's been pretty dominant in my meta and people literally go to tournies thinking how to counter that list. Using a stone to turn the enemy into a beast is quite worth it and since Darzee's chaunt is a Ca of 7, it has very good odds at connecting with most masters. Once stuck on, Weak damage 4 is enough, specially if he manages to get the Chaunt in and even then, it's the problem of having too many high priority targets in a short order. He has 7-8 activations before having to use Myranda and after she sacs, he still has the summoned critter, Killjoy and Marcus to activate. If you use Fast on Myranda, she can cover 18" too so maybe the cerberus/blessed won't even need to jump to make it's presence felt in that turn (murdered Rafkin in a single action after triggering extra attacks constantly, my hand was already depleted after Tara pseudotanking Killjoy).

Yeah, but I'm also seeing a lot of cards there.......masks for Killjoy to Onslaught, Tomes for Marcus to discard.....plus high enough cards for Marcus to hit with on that first attack. That's epic luck of a hand or flips.

 

If you play far forward allowing Marcus to walk once then charge....and he has the Imb Energy....and he has two Tomes to discard, then you may take two normal hits, then the Chaunt followed by two more attacks.......but when you see that set up, why play so far forward? Be a little more cagey.......don't rush forward, go Defensive....and again, you're talking a lot of luck.....I couldn't tell you how many times I didn't have the Tomes early game......maybe I'm just unlucky, but I'd much rather play a crew that's going to perform consistently and not rely on me being lucky....and this isn't even talking about average luck here....this is luck beyond the odds.

 

It's also going to depend on the crew he's facing....he isn't going to do this against Yan Lo with Ashigaru in the front....or against Rasputina with the Sub-Zero trigger upgrade .....or McCabe with the Shirt and Sidir standing nearby.....(for examples).......I don't know, how is it worse than taking a Vik slingshot if they're holding good cards......or Ironsides with good cards engaging half your crew on Turn 1 and triggering attacks on you...and kicking your ass when you try to hit her......or a super-charged Rail Golem.......or hell, Ophelia shooting you in the face.

 

It's a tactic. Sometimes it may work.....most of the time it shouldn't.....not on turn 1. It's like anything else, once you've figured out how to deal with the tactic.....of dealing with the initial rush, the crew has nothing left to contend with....when Raspy keeps Marcus and Killjoy Paralyzed for two turns and the Wendigo Devours them the rest of her crew can run around almost freely scoring VP turns 3-5 (or more).

 

I'm not refuting the potential of it.....and once my league is over I'll give it a shot....but I don't think it'll work too long.....not compared to a more reliable, consistent play-style.

[DeleteAccount]

I don't think it's really that card dependant, I mean, outside of a tome for Marcus and a high card to guarantee Darzee you don't really need much more, and hell, I'm thinking it's better to pass on Arcane Reservoir and go with Feral to make sure your target is stupefied before having to actually commit. Anyway, as long as you keep it in mind and take it out for a spin I'll be happy.

 

I do think I have a decent grasp on it, but not really sure I can block it next time against a veteran player, specially when he starts actually spicing it up and using stuff like Colette actively to make you second guess your crew creation, I'll keep adding impressions of it if I face it again and if I consider it easier to deal with or not.

[dgraz]

I don't think it's really that card dependant, I mean, outside of a tome for Marcus and a high card to guarantee Darzee you don't really need much more, and hell, I'm thinking it's better to pass on Arcane Reservoir and go with Feral to make sure your target is stupefied before having to actually commit. 

Well, you had mentioned having had Killjoy Onslaughting to draw cards out of your hand.....which is why I said it was even more card dependent. But, the first time you don't draw a Tome or two on turn 1 or even turn 2 (like me) then Marcus will be thinking that it's extremely card dependent.

 

I agree that taking Feral is the better play.....that way you could actually charge in against a de-buffed target. It's still going to be a big gamble without all 3 abilities from ToG to go after a master.......especially a more defensive one....especially if they're playing cagey like I mentioned......with SS for defense you aren't even guaranteed to get Feral and the Chaunt off.....If the master goes Defensive +2 you can forget it completely.........all you need to do is survive that first rush...then turn the tables on him. The better play is using the Killjoy tactic to hold up some stuff (like the master) then have Marcus assassinate a key model.....but again, against someone like Lilith, or Lady J, or a half dozen others, Killjoy is going to get wrecked pretty quick.....especially if you don't win Initiative.

 

Some crew builds play like that....a big gamble/rush at the beginning....hoping to crush the enemy early to gain advantage for later turns, but if that gamble fails then they struggle because they don't have the back-up.....this list is no different.

 

I don't know if I'll be able to wrap my mind around it because I don't gamble that big.....I'd rather be consistent....use Marcus early to de-buff key models / support the crew....take out a couple of key pieces with my big beasts, then switch to aggression around turn 3-4 to seal the deal. But I'm certainly going to give a shot.....with the Feral upgrade.

 

I have played in the past with several cheap models to out-activate the opponent, but I wasn't as aggressive with Marcus....it didn't work out for me because the rest of the crew has no staying power......so a smaller more elite crew....even just one made up of mid-range models (like Death Marshals or something) can be a real problem if your rush can't be maintained.

 

Switching up the crew is always going to be an issue with a 'meta'....but I don't think you need to build an entirely different crew just to counter this list....you just need to play differently.