Malifaux 2.0 Through the breach transcript highlights

[PokiePrawn]

I have actually (rationally or irrationally) not looked at, played with or most importantly purchased a Malifaux figure since I read the announcement for 2.0. Never before have I so quickly lost interest in a game so quickly after seeing proposed rule changes. It seems that there are so many games just like Malifaux 2.0, but none like the original game. I think the game needed a make over, you know a little botox, maybe a facelift, but not total reconstructive surgery.

With that said, I will give it a second look in September before my models find their way onto e-bay. The original concepts, changes, errata, and new releases were soooo well done my hope is that Wyrd knows what it is doing. I doubt it, but lets hope.

Here is trusting Wyrd to do the right things.

[Ausplosions]

Dooooooooooom!

[Forar]

Dooooooooooom!

It's about time table top gaming caught up with video gaming for its regular supplement of DOOOOOOOM.

[NIGHTHATER]

'QUICK EVERYONE!

THE SKY IS FALLING!"

"How do you know? "

"I DONT HAVE ANY SOLID INFORMATION WHAT-SO-EVER APART FROM MY OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE TINY TIDBITS WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN.

BUT IT MUST BE!!

DOOOOOOOOOOM!"

Wow all that drama queen...who knew. It's not like this is a forum to post and discuss changes or issues of concern with Malifaux 2.0. I know some of you trolls can't read, but don't let that hold you up, you make up for it with your charm, personality, and razer sharp wit. "I don't have any solid information?", Oh wow I'll call that a slow moment. We have the solid information given to us in the podcast, but good try...I have to praise effort.

Thanks for the people who are here to discuss issues of concern, not all of us can be in the beta testing. I hope that someone in beta testing sees some of our issues and addresses them. Having faith that issues will be addressed by the testers without saying something about the issues is a little more faith then I'm willing to give. As for you Doom trolls is guys go forth and shine! I sure your parents are ashamed of you (or more likely themselves), but rise, live, perform! Lord on knows talent like yours is so hard to come by in this world.

Nighthater

Edited May 14, 2013 by NIGHTHATER

[Ausplosions]

Sure thing NIGHTHATER.

I'm sure Beta Testers will breach their NDAs so you can feel better..

No one is saying that you have to take it on faith that it will all be fine. What we are saying is that until you have seen all the balancing factors, you need to get off the soapbox.

[Jonas Albrecht]

not all of us can be in the beta testing.

Sure you can. On the 31st.

What you can also do, apparently, is take a piece of information about 2.0, apply it to a 1.5 master, and then declare it to be a problem regardless of a gulf of missing information.

Despite it being completely insane to do so.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Jonas Albrecht

[Ausplosions]

Sure you can. On the 31st.

What you can also do, apparently, is take a piece of information about 2.0, apply it to a 1.5 master, and then declare it to be a problem, despite a gulf of missing information.

Despite it being completely insane to do so.

Maybe the world is ending. I actually am onside with Jonas on this one...

How people can look at any of the tidbits of information and try and reconcile that with current rules is is beyond me..

---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------

[PokiePrawn]

Let me make a comparison. And, for the record I do so for the purpose to express my own feelings on the 2.0, not to disparage and anyone else.

Fast and the Furious 6 is coming out. The first one was passable. Cars, guns, girls good stuff. Now, I don’t know the in and out details of Fast 6, but by looking at the actors, clips and knowing how movie plots deteriorate, I can use my analysis skills to conclude that this is NOT a movie I want to see.

The first Malifaux was great, but looking at the clips, the ideas discussed and the direction the game is going it is something I don’t want to see. Could I be wrong, maybe, but my years of practical experience tell me doooooom. Maybe I one day see Fast and the Furious 6 on a plane somewhere and it is great. But if it is, it is the exception, not the rule.

I can conclude without knowing details that I would not like Fast 6, just like I can conclude without knowing details that I would not like Malifaux 2.0

[Fetid Strumpet]

Chocolaty Doom. Doom is always better with Chocolate.

[Ausplosions]

Let me make a comparison. And, for the record I do so for the purpose to express my own feelings on the 2.0, not to disparage and anyone else.

Fast and the Furious 6 is coming out. The first one was passable. Cars, guns, girls good stuff. Now, I don’t know the in and out details of Fast 6, but by looking at the actors, clips and knowing how movie plots deteriorate, I can use my analysis skills to conclude that this is NOT a movie I want to see.

The first Malifaux was great, but looking at the clips, the ideas discussed and the direction the game is going it is something I don’t want to see. Could I be wrong, maybe, but my years of practical experience tell me doooooom. Maybe I one day see Fast and the Furious 6 on a plane somewhere and it is great. But if it is, it is the exception, not the rule.

I can conclude without knowing details that I would not like Fast 6, just like I can conclude without knowing details that I would not like Malifaux 2.0

Lucky Vin Diesel isn't involved in M2E then?

Your attitude to something that you know very little about is perplexing.

---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

We now need a character who is Von Schill's brother, Von DeiSchill.

[PokiePrawn]

, and your intolerance of someone who has a reasonable opinion that isn't yours and is expressing it politely is disturbing.

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------

, and your intolerance of someone who has a reasonable opinion that isn't yours and is expressing it politely is disturbing.

[Ausplosions]

, and your intolerance of someone who has a reasonable opinion that isn't yours and is expressing it politely is disturbing.

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------

, and your intolerance of someone who has a reasonable opinion that isn't yours and is expressing it politely is disturbing.

And your opinion that my opinion of his opinion is one of intolerance is incorrect. My opinion is simply that I am perplexed at how people come to these decisions based on almost nothing.

But as it is your opinion that my opinion is not one that should be directed at his opinion then I guess we will all just keep going in circles.

In my opinion.

[AtomicKeen]

We now need a character who is Von Schill's brother, Von DeiSchill.

Can he pilot an airship, yet somehow launch it off of an impossible amount of ramps? I'm all for that.

[nix]

@Ausplosions, what is it about Pokieprawns concerns or his/her posts that has you so incensed? I would have thought that as a henchman, you would have been more welcoming to someone with a post count under/around 50. Especially someone who is new to the game and expressing their concerns about the edition change. I am sure your comments are truly changing his/her mind about those concerns and showing what great henchman leadership we have to welcome new players.

@Pokieprawn - there is currently a real mix of concern, trepidation, and excitement within the community around the upcoming release of Malifaux v2.0 (M2E). I can certainly understand your concern and have seen some of my own local communities containing new players who have also stopped their purchases to "wait and see" whats coming. Wyrd has said that the public Beta will release a set of rules on May 31 (in or around I believe) and then you will be able to see for yourself if this is the game for you. Your previous posts show a fair bit of excitement getting into the game, so I recommend waiting to see what those open beta rules look like.

Then, before you go to ebay, look at your local community. There are many games that release a second edition and have groups of players who keep playing the edition they started with. As my locals have told me, "It's not like Wyrd is going to come to your house and take away your models and cards!".

I am sure that there will be lots of comments from a variety of sources (Open Beta Forum, Regular Forums, Podcasts, Blogs) to gather a host of opinions and use that information to make up your own mind on if Malifaux (v1.5 or v2.0) is still for you.

[Ausplosions]

Nix,

My issue is less with his opinions, and more with that line of reasoning as a whole. I more than understand trepidation. But to immediately state that due to tiny tidbits released that the whole package is horrible is madness.

The issue I have is people like yourself are espousing how horrible this edition change is going to be, and are already throwing all their toys out of the pram. And doing it from a position of little-to-no information.

Is M2E going to be bad? Maybe.

Is M2E going to be good? Maybe.

Is there any way we can possibly know at this moment in time with the VERY limited information that has been made available?

No. Not even a little.

For anyone, new player or not to be worried is understandable, and yes, it is our or job as Henchmen to ensure the transition is as smooth and enjoyable as possible. I enjoy brining new people into the game. But getting new people in is going to be a lot harder if the doomsayers continue to put forth the view that it is already a failed project.

People being worried is one thing, people being unreasonable in the opinion that the game is ALREADY ruined by M2E is another.

I don't know, and they don't know. So how about we lay off telling each other how awesome or despicable it may or may not be.

Pokie Prawn, from what I have seen from Wyrd in the past they are very adept at giving their players the best game they can. I wouldn't judge just yet the state of the game from small, isolated information packets. And I certainly wouldn't put to much stock in the Doomsayers.

Have a little faith. Or at least try not to throw away all the pretties just yet.

[Gorbad]

Never before have I so quickly lost interest in a game so quickly after seeing proposed rule changes. It seems that there are so many games just like Malifaux 2.0, but none like the original game.

If you don't mind me asking, what changes is it that you feel will make the game generic and not Malifaux? (And what games is it going to be just like?) I have some trepidation myself about the upgrade mechanic so I was just wondering if it was that or something else.

I'm quite looking forward to the open beta and even more to getting the rest in September because I like new rules and playing around with them and seeing what you can do with them. It is certainly possible that Wyrd have changed the rules in a way where I won't like the game, however I'm going to give it a go and find out by playing it for a while as previous experience have shown me that just reading or playing a game or two isn't always a good representation of the game. So we shall see. For now I'm excited and cautiously optimistic.

[Mehter]

If you don't mind me asking, what changes is it that you feel will make the game generic and not Malifaux? (And what games is it going to be just like?) I have some trepidation myself about the upgrade mechanic so I was just wondering if it was that or something else.

Any of them. It's starting to feel like Malifaux40k, as a friend put it. Warhammer Fantasy was a lot of fun. Enter streamlining and pre-measuring.

Based on the original post, the only reason to continue playing Malifaux is that you already own Malifaux. I'll need to see upgrades in action, but they are making me nervous. It's beginning to look like Infinity will be the king of skirmish after this. And I don't like those models one bit.

As a final thought, I thought we would get more strategies for some variety. Bringing down that number makes it feel like Warmachine.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Mehter

[Poko]

Warhammer Fantasy was a lot of fun. Enter streamlining and pre-measuring.

You mean the edition that saved WFB from slow decay as it was shedding players and not taking many new gamers in for years? From what I've heard, 8th ed was the best decision they could've take. And the game is immensly more fun now stuff happens on the tabletop (again, from observation, my army for that game was disposed of in the long reign of tedium in 6-7ed). If that's the effect MX2 will have, I think it'll be fantastic to have more new players around

[Mehter]

Yes, I do mean that edition. I guess you heard wrong. They most certainly needed to change things about the game, but a few steps they took ruined it for me and most of the people at my local store. They have since dropped the game. But that is neither here nor there, and I'm not going to argue about the fate of Fantasy. It streamlined a lot of rules that didn't particularly need it, and I'm afraid that's what Wyrd is doing here.

Changing the way a game works mechanically for the sake of it isn't good. I do believe Malfaux needs to clean up some rules (Izamu not getting his heal flip on a disengage strike because it isn't technically a melee strike, for instance. Even though he's in melee and making a strike. I have no problem with it, but it's hard to explain to new players. Just an example.) but I don't think it needs this drastic of a change.

[Metalhed]

8th edition was pretty decent. I lost interest in waiting for army books to get released and being released with no relation to each other. That's what kills that game.

Whereas Wyrd brings new presents to all of us.

The bitching about the strategies is stupid. Yes they reduced strategies for competitive play but they have also said that they will be releasing detailed story encounters. If you looked at one piece of information you might feel disappointed...but by seeing the whole picture you might not.

It is early to gauge, but I am loving what I am hearing. I am particularly loving the excitement from the Wyrd guys and that they are making an effort to engage the community...these all bode well for a company that WANTS to please its customers.

[Joel]

I'm not sure the sheer number of strategies changing is an issue myself - from the podcast interviews its clear that schemes are becoming much more important (2/3rds of the avaibable vps, rather than half). Also, gaining grounds has, in its many incarnations, limited the strategy pool - and this has not impacted the fun of the game at all.

Although I find Wyrd to have well-written rules compared to other mini games, I do agree that sorting out wording and maybe getting rid of unnecessary duplication is needed.

the difference between "attack" and "Attack"

LoS and cover rules

sorting out when a model with an aura is affected by it or not (some are, some aren't - why not just make them all standard?!?!?)

that kind of thing, and a good index and glossary, will make it better for everyone IMO.

personally, coming from WHFB from 6th-8th, pre-measuring doesn't hurt games, it just means you dont waste actions due to bad guessing. I'm fine with that as I'd rather win a game because I played well than because my opponent guessed a range badly.

playing vassal a lot has shown me that pre-measuring in Malifaux not only works, its quite desirable.

I'm loving what I've heard so far, but I'm holding off on judgement until we see what's what at the end of the month.

[Pierowmaniac]

I think we pretty much already had a good premeasuring debate here

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?33445-Pre-Measure&highlight=premeasure

As for the other rumoured and known changes, I'm very happy for some (premeasuring, removing attack/Attack difference - YAY), not sure either way on others (Soulstones and the loss of getting the extra value to gaurantee a spell) and sort of a little bit concerned about others (Upgrades - I think having a few around on masters is OK, but not sure about the idea of other models having them?).

But overall im happy to wait and see till we get to try out some beta rules and see how it all comes together as a whole.

[Mike3838]

I do believe Malfaux needs to clean up some rules (Izamu not getting his heal flip on a disengage strike because it isn't technically a melee strike, for instance. Even though he's in melee and making a strike. I have no problem with it, but it's hard to explain to new players. Just an example.) but I don't think it needs this drastic of a change.

Some interactions in the game have become a little bit lawyer-y, requiring proper study of the use of specific words in the way different rules are written. I agree this needs changing, and I'm confident it will be taken care of in M2E.

You keep saying "this drastic of a change" and "any of them" without being specific though. The rationale for two of the biggest changes (upgrades and Soulstones) has been given and, to me, it makes a lot of sense. Upgrades reduce the up-front complexity, and soulstones create a more balanced playing field of masters. Is there something *specific* that you dislike about the changes, rather than a strange comparison to 40k which, as far as I can tell, is not even *remotely* similar other than the fact you play using miniatures, and you can customise your units.

[PokiePrawn]

Thanks Nix, I think you make great points to both of us. I will wait to make final judgement.

As was mentioned about 40k, popularity does not equal my enjoyment of a game. Simple games exist, I want complexity, creativity, choice.

2.0 needs to happen, but making a few rule clarifications, changing some LoS stuff and steamlining attack and Attack is what is needed - not changing the game at its core with basically new rules for each model.

If these changes make Wyrd more money, and grow the game, then the choice was right for them. But popularity of the game and my enjoyment of the game don't relate. We shall see.

[Forar]

@PokiePrawn Not too long ago you posted a thread about talking to people in a store and hearing 'bone chilling, soul searing things about the next edition of Malifaux'.

Any chance that your current reservations are based at least partially on arriving at the conclusion that these terrible, horrible, crimes against gaming and humanity are true?

Edited May 14, 2013 by Forar