[M2E] Changes to Soulstones

[Jonas Albrecht]

Here are the changes culled from the podcasts:

More soulstones in games: 35-50 is the new standard point total. This was due to the adjusted cost of models and the universalization of upgrades.

During an attack, you spend a soulstone to add or a suit. You no longer add a second number to your total.

When defending, you can spend to get a and give them a to the damage flip.

Prevention flips are still in.

Healing Flips are out. (thanks, bsimon)

During the draw step, you can burn a stone to draw two cards and then discard two cards.

If I'm missing anything, feel free to let me know and I'll add it.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Jonas Albrecht

[Justin]

Standard point total went up because of upgrades and adjusted model costs.

Soulstones may still be burned to reflip initiative.

[bsimon]

Using them for Healing Flips is out, IIRC.

[Sevorin]

Using them for Healing Flips is out, IIRC.

Wow, big change if this is correct.

[Gorbad]

Using them for Healing Flips is out, IIRC.

That is a massive change for all slow to die masters. Will be interesting to see how they compensate for that.

[i_was_like_you]

It's possible they'll still get something like a healing flip that can only be taken as a slow to die action, much like Colette's Death Defying.

[Pierowmaniac]

That is a massive change for all slow to die masters. Will be interesting to see how they compensate for that.

MOLY GOT cuddled! OMFG.....THIS SUCKS.....oh hang on 'VON SCHILL GOT cuddled' .....YAY!

Just thought I'd get that one out there....LOL

Yes it will be interesting to see how they handle those masters/henchmen who could do the slow to die/healing flip combo

[moxypoo]

I wonder if healing flips being gone is only for healing flips generated from using soulstones, or healing flips in general (even those generated from actions, etc.) are gone?

Overall, I really like the changes made to soulstones. As a Leveticus player, it's always nice to be able to cause a Df resist on a 25+, but I can see that my opponents always hate having no chance to resist a spell. The on attacks is a much better mechanic, I think.

[i_was_like_you]

25+ resists, strikes, etc, from any stone user could be demoralizing, even if the strike / df could be cheated back and forth instead of the generated all at once casting total. Now, we'll see how it plays out, but it seems that there will be far more winning by tying if we're only getting / to influence things.

Did they say when we'd be able to spend the stone to gain the / force them to have. ? Seems like it'd have to be a lot more preemptive that way.

I declare attack with my ss user against your ss user. You spend a stone to give me a . I spend a stone to go back to a straight flip. We now both get to flip, after both wasting a stone, only to see what has amounted to an unmodified flip, and then we each get to cheat cards from our hand.

[decker_cky]

Yeah...these seem like they'll work out to be pretty across the board weakening of masters - they'll likely need to be a lot more afraid of strong minions than they currently are.

[Sevorin]

Yeah...these seem like they'll work out to be pretty across the board weakening of masters - they'll likely need to be a lot more afraid of strong minions than they currently are.

That is disconcerting. I did like the power of masters with the use of their SS. It made them feel unique, and really like the dreaded masters of Malifaux. They're not immortal (with the exception of a few, it never really was difficult to take a master down, and many times it came to master on master which made the match epic). At the same time I agree about the 25+ hits against minions. That is a pita to deal with :1_Happy_Puppet2:

[i_was_like_you]

25+ against other masters and henchmen too. Magician's Duel vs VonSchill, for example.

[Sevorin]

I never had the problem with that, it meant being wise with your own SS (resource management) to deal with it.

[Forar]

The way I see it, this change depends on how the math factors, particularly the stats on the cards.

Basically, it could simply shift the "I cannot beat this" from SS users in general, to any model with a given stat significantly above the average.

An example of this in 1.5 is Perdita. With a Def of 8, if she's holding a face card in hand, there are good odds it basically equates to a "nope, try again" for most figures attacking her. (yes, I am aware that LJ and other figures can get a CB of 9 or higher, but those are the exceptions and I imagine they're not exactly evenly divided amongst crews)

Granted, this was also the case with SS's as they are, but with the ability to cheat a high card and stone another, even if I used one to bump up my total as well, it could be a closer contest based on whether or not you flipped high and/or I flipped low. The extra card reduces the importance of the base stat. It's still a factor, but with 2 cards vs 2 cards, you can gamble or even force a closer battle.

I'll have to mull over it some more, and depending on how the stats have/have not been altered, it could be either a big deal or practically moot.

[decker_cky]

There's also damage prevention and other abilities which will increase in importance. Masters will still be more versatile, have the best abilities, and the most resilient, but when an average combat master ends up in range of a steamborg executioner or nephilim, they're gonna have a bad time.

[Sezar]

More soulstones in games: 35-50 is the new standard point total. This was due to the adjusted cost of models and the universalization of upgrades.

I wonder if that means there will be moré models on our Games then, or if that actually means same number of models, but most of them more expensive (Soulstones wise) and so the increased number of Soulstones for hiring in v2

[i_was_like_you]

I never had the problem with that, it meant being wise with your own SS (resource management) to deal with it.

Magician's Duel vs VonSchill is Ca 7 vs Ca 1...Card and stone management aren't going to get him out of that jam all that often. Tactics on the field to keep him away from her sound great, until Colette and a showgirl companion, the showgirl moves into position, Colette pops out of her derriere, and hits VonSchill with rainbow sprinkles.

[explorator]

It was said in the Through the Breach podcast that most games will have the same number of models per side due to the cost of most models going up. Point values are going up so it is easier to balance in-game utility with cost.

I do not think that Masters a getting more vulnerable due to soulstone changes. With all Masters getting 3 AP I think most will have the ability to stay healthy, even if they have to play in a different way to do so.

[i_was_like_you]

3 AP but no healing flips, though? Have they said if there are other means for healing our models? Sometimes that's all that's saving their bacon.

Or are they keeping the healing, but setting it at a static number, instead of forcing for a random flip, that can be such an anti-climactic Weak, heal for 1?

[Fetid Strumpet]

I'm actually surprised at the gasps about the possibility of the healing mechanic going away. Does anyone actually use the healing mechanic all that much aside from models with slow to die? In the time since I've been playing, which was the December before the Rules Manual came out, I've not once seen a master ever use that ability that didn't have slow to die.

Spending one of your (1) actions to heal is just a waste of an action, especially since you could just spend that same stone, and prevent the same amount of dmg without spending an Action when you took the dmg as a damage prevention flip.

That's just what I've noticed from my own groups, others may have a different experience but as far as most of my groups have been concerned the healing flip doesn't exist even now.

[i_was_like_you]

I'm worried that the option is gone.

I rarely used it either, instead relying on other models that could grant healing flips. Are those gone as well?

[nix]

I'm actually surprised at the gasps about the possibility of the healing mechanic going away. Does anyone actually use the healing mechanic all that much aside from models with slow to die? In the time since I've been playing, which was the December before the Rules Manual came out, I've not once seen a master ever use that ability that didn't have slow to die.

Spending one of your (1) actions to heal is just a waste of an action, especially since you could just spend that same stone, and prevent the same amount of dmg without spending an Action when you took the dmg as a damage prevention flip.

That's just what I've noticed from my own groups, others may have a different experience but as far as most of my groups have been concerned the healing flip doesn't exist even now.

I've used it. It is not a common every game occurrence, but I certainly held it as an option that I have made use of at key moments outside the "Slow to Die Heal" use. More importantly, I have used it in conjunction with prevention to keep masters alive and viable on the board longer in a game. It was a good option to have.

[Forar]

I've almost never used healing flips either, but that's mostly due to a lack of soul stone users with Slow to Die.

I will generally spend the stone to add a card to my defense to avoid the hit altogether. Failing that, a damage prevention flip. If I'm wasting AP on healing, I have made several very poor choices along the way.

While it may be self serving, I wouldn't exactly shed tears at S2D SS users actually becoming mortal, but that's probably the sting of having to 'kill' Von Schill like 4 or 5 times in a single game between him and his Librarian. And not actually getting him.

[Creaturefeature]

After listening to Tartan Skirmish Radio interview, it appears that masters will have more defensive triggers and still be able to keep their prevention flips, so hopefully that will make up for the loss of the healing flip. Honestly though, after three years of playing regularly I've rarely seen anyone use a healing flip.

[Guy in Suit]

I think the change all sound great and will reward better players while not demoralizing n00bs.