Misaki and Mei Feng Advice

[Kriltic]

Just started Misaki and Mei Feng crews and so I have a few questions to those with a bit more experience.

I was wondering, what are peoples opinions on the Emberling and Shang? Are they worth the 2/3SS costs or are those SS best put towards other minions?

What sort of generic crew would you take for each master?

And Finally, what do people think of the Emptied Pockets and Alternate Route Schemes, are they both viable? Saving face and Infiltrate Malifaux are both fairly good Schemes so I was just wondering if the Master specific ones are also worth taking in a competitive environment.

[Twisted Metal]

I have found both totems to be well worth their points.

[EnternalVoid]

Don't have enough experience to feel good stating the Emberling but for Shang I have gotten alot of games now with Misaki under my belt. I take shang sometimes, but he is not an auto included. Simple put I have found that Misaki's crew tends to be expensive soulstone wise. She does not have a stellar 3 stone or 4 stone model to spam to build up the crew number wise which makes Soulstones very important. Wastrals are nice but more for completing objectives and less being rank and file. They are not Witchling stalkers, Terror Tots, Crooked Men, or even Death Marshals. Alot of the time I have felt better just taking Yamizuko and having the stones for other options rather than worry about Shang.

The problem is often also that my group went from playing mostly 30ss to some 35ss, and then due to campaigns and game to time stuff, drop to 30ss and to 25ss more. I have found myself in more 25ss it seems of late than any other size. At 35 it seemed easier to take Shang but at 30ss and 25ss I have found myself dropping him more and more to get that one more Ronin or another model in. I like him, but having another signifigant model just has been ending up more important.

[Omenbringer]

An Extra Vent Steam is really nice with Mei Feng. Linked to Mei the Emberling can cast it, obscruing them both and freeing her up to use Iron Skin instead. It is also fairly reliable in casting all of her spells except Super Heat (due to need for extra :tomes) and Iron Skin (since its a 0 Spell). The Link also provides for some base blocking as well.

Its extra Talents just cement it for me. Arcane Resevoir toping the list, though the combination of Spirit, Armor and higher than average Df is also pretty tasty. I really cant find a reason not to hire him if the Stones are available (and might even work to if they aren't).

Edited April 14, 2013 by Omenbringer

[Shadowopal]

Havent played misaki yet. But Ihave learned to enjoy:

Men feng

Emberling

Fire gamin

Metal gamin

Rail worker

Willie

For 25ss

[AtomicKeen]

Ive yet to take either totem, though I usually don't bring a totem in favor of another minion. The Emberling has some nice synergy with the Rail Golem, or for giving out a burning token so Mei Feng's will get a [+] to her damage flip with her tiger claws.

I haven't been playing much Misaki, but the lists I run with her are around 25ss and generally like this:

Misaki (cache 5)

Ronin

Ronin

Torakage

Ototo/Taelor

I have been loving Mei Feng though, and I've found a groove I'm quite fond of at 25ss:

Mei Feng (cache 8 - I skip out on one scheme to give Kaeris some love)

Kaeris

Gunsmith

Rail Worker

Rail Worker

Emptied pockets is cool, but I've had some trouble getting it off (not hitting your triggers and losing your pilfer duel a couple turns in a row can do that though). I've had a 1/3 success rate, but Im not a Misaki wizard yet.

Mei Feng's Alternate Route is a whole lot of fun. Its easy to pull off, just make sure you dont move your Rail Workers outside of 6'' when building the line. I'd run her as TT if you plan on an Alternate Route, as Torakage and Wastrels help move it through rough terrain. Bury your Torakage with his (0) faceless and (2) shadow strike during your first activation, double secret passages down the board with the Wastrel during your last activation, and unbury him up to 8'' from the wastrel as the turn closes. It pretty much builds itself.

The Wastrel/Torakage combo is also very effective for Deliver a Message. Think turn two effective.

Edited April 14, 2013 by AtomicKeen

[Adran]

Alternate route can be very easy with the right crew. With the wrong crew it can be very hard. Personally I think using a lot of the box is the wrong crew for it. If you have movement tricks and fast minions then you can easily do it. Wastrals and Torakage in Ten Thunders are great (corephyee and Union miners are pretty good in Arcanists).

Personally I find the Emberlign is useful. I wouldn't say he is an automatic pick, but I would pick him in a lot of different crews as with Link and Vent steam he makes a very useful source of mobile cover.

[Valtyr]

I wanted to weigh in on Shang. A lot of people may have a brief look at him and immediately dismiss him as too expensive for what he brings to the table, especially as a Totem.

However, at the basest of levels he allows you to, before any other influences, draw 7 cards (discarding one) and thus start preparing your Control Hand from Turn 1. He also gives Misaki (one of the best single-target combatants in the game) what is, at the cost of a single Wd, paired weapons. Those two abilities are, in and of themselves, absolutely huge and that's not taking into account his ability to, with the right cards, inflict 3 Dg on a Weak Flip.

The above, and the fact that he's a rather cool model makes him an auto-include in every Ten Thunders crew I ever make. I feel that his utility alone make him worth the cost; he could do nothing except fly around the board all game, but the benefits he brings to the crew (and especially Misaki) are worth the initial investment.

- Valtyr

[Sniddy]

Emberling is a cheap linked steam vent

Attached to the right minion hes ok - and at 2 stones you can't ask more...you need to know why your bringing it or just have 2 stones left and no feeling for a merc

Shang, can disembark tokas - reflip important flips, isnt a slouch in dealing out dmg.....it's a nice adition, but yes misaki is stone heavy...I would want to take it most games as I love the model and what it can do....but at less then 35 stones i can see it being squeezed

[Kriltic]

Well Im glad that I've got all the right basic ideas in terms of crew selections

[sssk]

I played Mei and Misaki at the last Sheffield tournament (and did very badly with them... but shhh).

I don't have much experience with Misaki, but she's very straight forward to use. The ability to take ronin is good. In my humble opinion, Ten thunders should never leave home without a 10t brother (#NowIWillCompanionActivateMyWholeCrew).

I've put out lots of my thoughts on Mei both here and in the Arcanist forum (I usually play her as Arcanist, but have dabbled with 10t), so I'll give you my thoughts on the Emberling (as you asked)... and I never used Shang with Misaki (couldn't find the points for him).

Emberling pros: arcane reservoir, spirit, armour 1, df 6, float, vent steam, able to cast seismic punch.

Emberling cons: 3 wounds (somewhat offset by spirit and armour).... that's it.

From this, you might guess that I rather like the emberling. I've been playing Mei since November, and haven't yet played a game with Mei where the emberling hasn't been present too.

7 cards in your hand as unspeakably useful. It doesn't seem like much, but it's a very powerful ability. Either there's 1 more good card to cheat in, or one less bad card which you can flip this turn (and next turn, as you'll presumably discard it at the end of the turn).

Vent steam is handy, I don't use it nearly as much as lots of other say they do. I'll declare it each turn (unless I want to link to someone...more on that later) but if I don't cast it from the flip, I'll often not bother to cheat in the 8 it needs (obviously circumstances might alter that).

The emberling doesn't have a charge move, and is somewhat "wet paper bag" like in melee, so 99% of the time (when I'm using him) he'll move once, cast a spell once, and either link or try to vent steam. Another amusing alternative is to put him on defensive stance if he's likely to get attacked this turn. He'll probably go down eventually, but if he can take cards out of the opponent's hand, you're winning...sort of. Also if/when he dies (often he doesn't die, as he's resilient and not worth attacking if he's stood next to... anything), he's only 2ss, so I don't worry too much. He's a good bit of bait too. Only yesterday I got a vik to attack the emberling to deprive me of arcane reservoir, then Mei did the whole "vik thing" to the vik using a metal gamin (see below for metal gamin shenanigans).

So let's look at spells for the emberling.

Railwalk: Needs a 10+ to cast, I've never used it with him, he's only 2 stones, and a 10+ card is quite "expensive" to get him to safety/where he needs to be.

Scalding breath: Needs a 10+ to cast. If something needs hurting (or making "easy to wound") I'll often use this. It needs a high card, but for that you potentially get a blast (or two), and easy to wound. If it looks like the emberling is going down, this is often what I'll cast as a last ditch damage attempt (and to try and get an average/good card out of the opponent's hand). If it doesn't work, 9 times out of 10 I'll shrug and move on. On the 1 time out of 10 that I need it to work, I can burn a soulstone if need be to cast it higher.

Superheat: Needs a 9+ of tomes to cast....I'll leave it there shall I (aka I've never cast this, as you need to successfully cast vent steam first, and before you know it, you've got no hand left). If you want to do superheat, use Mei, as she can cast it much more easily, and for free in terms of AP, and can get to higher values so it's harder to resist.

Seismic punch: Needs a 6+ to cast. Assuming my emberling survives for 4 turns per game, and I've played 30 or so games using Mei, (so 120 turns), my emberling must have cast (or try to cast at least) Seismic punch 100 times at least! This is THE spell which the emberling wants to cast. It's nice and easy (I can often spare a 6 out of my hand), and 3" push is really really useful. Often my first turn will have Mei-Emberling-Kang (make that rail golem if you like the model for it). Mei casts seismic punch (needing a 3) and bounces kang and the emberling forward, she then walks up to the emberling and does it again. The emberling then casts seismic punch. Kang (or the rail golem... or whoever) is now 9" forward from your deployment zone, and ready to activate and charge/grab an objective.

That 3" push is so useful in so many places.

I'll take off my emberling sandwich board now.... and put on my metal gamin sandwich board.

Nowadays, every Mei list I build starts off: Mei, Emberling, Metal gamin.

The ability to companion a construct is unspeakably brilliant, as it gives Mei a super mobile rail walk point which can allow her to do a 1 person alpha strike (ie strike where the opponent thought they were safe). I don't really use the defensive abilities on it to protect Mei, though it's nice to know they're there if I need them. After Mei has handed out burning tokens the metal gamin can convert them into damage.

Finally, the big selling point of the metal gamin is this:

Imagine the situation where a tough enemy model (eg the Vik I mentioned earlier) is stood on its own being all threatening somewhere near Mei and the gamin. They companion and end up so that the gamin is a few inches from the model. Mei can then rail walk in (preferably with the terminus trigger to kick the enemy). Then she punches the enemy, and gets her tiger's fury trigger to bounce off and punch something else... but there're no enemies in range! Not to worry, she bounces off and hits the gamin, cheats in a low mask, probably does weak damage (which is reduced to 1 wound by the gamin's armour), and can bounce off to hit the enemy model again. With paired fists, this works more often than you'd think (especially if you have done a bit of hand sculpting for a few turns to fill your hand with masks). If you don't get the mask when attacking the gamin, just cheat down your attack and miss it. No big deal.

So there you go. That's my opinion of 7ss of awesome.

I could go into how amazing Willie is too (Mei can still take him when she's 10 thundering), but I think I've probably done it elsewhere, and if I haven't other people certainly have.

Good luck with the ninjas. Oh, and finally, if you're using Misaki and you play against Izamu, at least stifle the maniacal laughter until turn 2, otherwise your opponent might think you're odd.

EDIT: flippin' 'eck. That post was much bigger than I intended it to be. Sorry for the endless drivel.

Edited April 23, 2013 by sssk

[Kriltic]

Haha don't worry about it being long. To be honest I had never thought about using a Metal Gamin like that so it was worth it just for that if nothing else! Plus the Emberling has a few extra tricks I hadn't considered before. I'd originally just planned to (for the most part) sit him in the corner hidden away for the Arcane Reservoir and an extra Duel Faction model for Infiltrate Malifaux.

As for Izamu, if I suspect my opponent is hiring Izamu I would use Yan Lo and throw my own Izamu at him XD Unless my opponent is using Yan Lo (I dont really like the idea of the same Master fighting himself)... Then I'd just use Misaki and attempt to build up a hand of Rams.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Kriltic

[sssk]

Minor point. The emberling is a totem, so wouldn't count for infiltrate malifaux (which requires duel faction "minions".

2 or 3 high rams is all you need. Brilliant for disposing of the opponent's hand, or waiting till they've used most of their hand, and disposing of their models.

EDIT: edited to counter Kritlic's tactical edit

Edited April 23, 2013 by sssk

[Kriltic]

Yeah I meant Rams... I even had the card in front of me and still ended up typing Crows :S And I've changed it now so I look a little less foolish XD

I'm glad you pointed out the scheme says minions. I thought it seemed weird that Mei Feng could complete that scheme so easily.

[EnternalVoid]

Minor point. The emberling is a totem, so wouldn't count for infiltrate malifaux (which requires duel faction "minions".

A minor point to point out but while an Emberling is a totem, totems are minions. Page 9 of the rule manual, number 3, Types. Models are grouped into the following types: Masters, Henchmen, and Minions. Totem is a Characteristic, as per Number 5 and shows up on page 10.

The reason the Emberling does not count for Infiltrate Malifaux is because the Scheme says Insignificant models don't count. It is why you can't load up on Clockwork Traps to accomplish this.

As for Misaki and Rams, man I have put my opponent into so many bad places because of them. Ruined perfectly good hands that way.

[sssk]

Heh, learn a new thing every day. Cheers

[Sybarite]

i'm with ssk. The emberling is incredibly useful and i always take it, and i too never leave home without at least one metal gamin. i thought about the mei+gamin om single target tiger's fury shenanigans too the other day. i havent gotten in asituation where it has been necessary yet but it's a really neat trick to habe up your sleeve and should really be able to take someone by surprise.

It's awesome that the gamin can then heal the damage later, and if hou have a second metal gamin and the target mei fought survived (might be a tough master or something) then it could potentially heat metal to convert the burning tokens on the firat gamin into damage. Or the rail golem could use the tokens for fuel ^^

[SilverBullet]

Haha don't worry about it being long. To be honest I had never thought about using a Metal Gamin like that so it was worth it just for that if nothing else! Plus the Emberling has a few extra tricks I hadn't considered before. I'd originally just planned to (for the most part) sit him in the corner hidden away for the Arcane Reservoir and an extra Duel Faction model for Infiltrate Malifaux.

As for Izamu, if I suspect my opponent is hiring Izamu I would use Yan Lo and throw my own Izamu at him XD Unless my opponent is using Yan Lo (I dont really like the idea of the same Master fighting himself)... Then I'd just use Misaki and attempt to build up a hand of Rams.

Last tournament I took part in, first game I played was Yan Lo vs Yan Lo. That epic moment came where my opponents Izamu gets the jump on mine.... mine laughs, ripostes, red joker + severe and that was all she wrote.

[sliverwind]

So your opponent was holding neither masks nor rams of any sort?

[sssk]

Somewhat off topic on the Izamu front, but cheating in a ram/mask wouldn't help, as they wouldn't be making a defense/resist flip, so no negating suits

[His Fattness]

Since the opponent was the one attacking he cannot cancel the ripostes. Izamu's Spiritual Fortitude ability only effects Defense and Resist flips.