Competitive Guild 2013

[mythicFOX]

I'm a competitive player, by which I mean I like to play tournaments and enjoy matching my wits against skilled opponents, not that I'm an aggressive waac d'bag. In 2011 I held the top Neverborn general title for the UK and I'm currently holding top Arcanist, this season I'm targeting top Guild. So I'm starting this thread to share my thoughts on and ask questions about competitive Guild as I play them this year.

The 2013 UK competitive season opened for me in Sheffield at the weekend, where I claimed 3rd place in a 19 player event with the exactly nine guild models I have assembled and painted;

• C.Hoffman
  
• Mobile Toolkit
  
• Peacekeeper
  
• Guardian
  
• Warden
  
• Warden
  
• Watcher
  
• Watcher
  
• Wastrel
  

Needless to say I'm pleased with the result, and even more thrilled to have won best painted. I'll post my thoughts on event later, firstly though I'm in need of advice;

I'm in action again in a couple of weekends at Vapnartak in York. It's three 35ss games using the new gaining grounds, event pack here if you're really interested.

I need to add some models to my Guild collections before then. I'm fairly confident that minion wise I'll be adding; another Wastrel, 2 Witchling Stalkers, and Santana. What I'm undecided on is which master and totem to add to these minions, I'm torn between McCabbe and Perdita.

So which master to add to boost my chances? Hoffman should be able to cover Beatdown (think Slaughter) and probably Master of the Hill (think Claim Jump) and maybe new Treasure Hunt. The one's I'll need more support it will be Land Grab (think Recon) and the new Line in the Sand.

So any thoughts Guild players? I need your help.

[Rameses]

I quite like Perdita for most strategies. She's versatile and hardy. I've yet to have any experience Mc Hammish yet. But he's on my order list for next month.

Have you considered 2 Rifleman?

[Iron Skies]

We'll probably have a proper talk about this on Thursday but I would go with McCabe and use Luna with him or the Drill Sarge. Depending on how many tournaments I can get to you'll have me as a rival at least for top Guild spot

[Therril_83]

I don't own either master, but have played alot against Perdita and I'm looking at getting McCabe so thought a bit on him. And I should also add that I've got no competitive experience, I'm merely musing and adding my thoughts. Looking forward to follow your progress on Guild'13.

Both McCabe and Perdita are pretty quick masters, but both have some negatives when looking at what you already have painted. McCabe can only pull living models along to speed them up and Perdita can't obey your ItI-constructs.

Granted neither of these negatives apply to the minions your adding. In fact, I think McCabe with the horn upgrade is a great way to boost Stalkers. Pull them 4" towards you and make them charge 2" longer. That's another 6" of movement in a single turn for each stalker, who's only real problem (for me atleast) is that they're rather hard to get into the combats you want because of their lack of speed. Obey can get them as far but it can't affect as many.

From what I gathered on Bayou Broadcast rundown of the new strategies, Land Grab gives points each turn to whoever has the most board quarters. For this, Obey could be quite nice, to move your opponent's models away so that you can more easily take the quarters.

McCabe can slow them down so that it's harder to contest the quarters, but he can't actually do anything to get the models out once they've gotten in. So perhaps that's one aspect to consider.

Pertida is also nice in Treasure Hunt for the same reason, Obey enemy models to drop the treasure or hand it over, or obey your own to walk further with the it, but I don't see you using any of your living models or non-ItI-models to grab the treasure, so I'd be surprised if you didn't use Hoffman for treasure hunt.

[mythicFOX]

Thanks all for your thoughts. I've got a box of Riflemen, they're in the painting queue. Would you prioritise these over the Witchlings?

So onto some thoughts around the event I played at the weekend. We had three 35ss games in a field of 19 players. As this was my competitive run out with Hoffman, and I had such a limited pool of models (see the first post) I'd targeted a top 1/2 finish for the day.

Round One

vs Misaki, in shared Slaughter.

He'd taken Bodyguard into my Assassinate, which meant it was unlikely he'd put his master into the Hoff-star and risk the 4VP swing. He also grudged my Warden, which I'd never allow him to score on. My second scheme was unannounced Frame for Murder on my Mobile Toolkit, which was now evidently a poor choice. This combination meant that on schemes the most likely outcome was a 0-2 to him. Meaning I would be the aggressor and the game would come down to me getting the Hoff-star into his crew for the strategy VPs.

I put my Wastrel out into a big terraclips building on my right flank, he sent a Torakge in to deal with him. My Wastrel then walked round the corner and secret passaging to another floor to evade. My peacekeeper harpooned Yamaziko out of position and killed her.

He sent Misaki into the building to kill my Wastrel and position on my Warden trailing the Hoffstar. I detonated my Warden and put the Hoff-star into the rest of his crew. He picked off a baiting Watcher with Misaki while Hoff-star cleaned up the majority of his crew.

Turn five opened with him having 2 Torakage and Misaki in my DZ and nothing else alive, my crew most of the way to his DZ with 3VP for the strat as things stood. Our crews pass passed the remaining two turns, my opponent preferring to bank a narrow loss over risking the 4VP swing on putting his master into my crew. The game ended 3-2 to me.

No general guild thoughts on this game.

Round two later...

Edited January 21, 2013 by mythicFOX

[nix]

Thanks all for your thoughts. I've got a box of Riflemen, they're in the painting queue. Would you prioritize these over the Witchlings?

My simple answer would be no, absolutely not.

My more complex answer is based on your playing style. Riflemen are really good at threatening a specific area, and work well if you can park them somewhere and then shoot. Witchlings are a bit different, being very very effective in melee. Witchlings may not be as effective at range, but they can still put out a little hurt with their pistols. In addition, Witchlings bring both anti-magic (with thier aura) and dispel magic to the party. Don't discount Dispel Magic and its variety of uses.

[AgentRock]

I'm with Nix. When you say you want help with Recon (whatever it's called) my first thought is more of the amazing 4 point minions from the Guild, and IMO witchlings are the king of that particular hill. Paired up with Wastrels to help jump to the quarters where you're going to need a boost on the last turn, I think you'd be in decent shape. Perdita could work well for this type of crew, in that she doesn't really need any support from her group and can move quickly to protect your dudes.

[underdog6750]

If taking witchlings then perhaps the handler maybe of use although a bit on the expensive side she can push friendly witchlings 4" towards the nearest enemy. Can goad witchlings +1/+2 walk charge and positive on attack/damage flips cant remember of the top of my head. She is imune to their imolating demise and gets a + flip when in the same melee as a friendly witching. Her magic great sword is pretty decent too and coupled with critical stright on her pistol

[nilus]

My simple answer would be no, absolutely not..

Right now the only models I may put ahead of Witchling Stalkers at this point are Wastrels maybe. Because they fullfill some nice speed objective tasks and they are the new hotness.

But yeah Witchling Stalkers are great. Every guild player should have at least 3, Sonnia players need 6

[Odin1981]

I would prioritize stalkers over riflemen. Riflemen (2x) are more expensive than nino and have the same effect he does. Granted though they give two activations but with combat 5 you can't guarentee hitting anything that is def 6 or more without a tremendous amount of support from your hand.

Also given that the new gaining grounds seems to favour more durable minons for board control/model control riflemen will get destroyed by anything quick and hitty. Which if you play in competitive circles should generally rear its head often in those circles.

Masters I couldn't really give out advice on without a explanation on what style of master you like to play/enjoy. I personally am not high on mccabe but he is basically a inverse style of nicodem with debuffs instead of buffs. I don't think he is bad but in the metagame I play in aoe effects/blast heavy and are quite present so I don't think he is very valuble due to getting speed out of minions requires bunching them up.

Stalkers are great in that they help with effect removal, have scout and hunter, and are credible melee additions to back up guilds good ranged models also for their point cost I believe they have the best (0) in the game. They are pretty much all purpose but wastrels are better at obj grabbing (if they don't get seen their defense and wp are very suspect to be able to stay alive the entire game).

If you are going to be using santana I would suggest picking up Francisco to complement her. They are a great tandem together. I would also suggest picking up 1-2 guild austringers as well.

[Ulfarr]

Is Hoffstar the only "competitive" guild list? Also, No Ryle about? He's brutal with Hoff.

[nix]

Is Hoffstar the only "competitive" guild list? Also, No Ryle about? He's brutal with Hoff.

I would say certainly not. I know some people do really well with him, but I personally do not feel he is competitive at all. A lot of what makes a competitive crew in Malifaux comes down to how your play-style intersects with the strategies compared to your opponents play-style. After that, its heavily skilled based on who knows the game and their crew better.

Mythicfox had very good games with Hoff, as shown by his latest event placing. I will be interested to see how he progresses through the year and feels about what is and is not competitive for guild at the end of the year.

[Ulfarr]

I'll certainly be watching the thread with interest! The local Tourney scene around here is pretty dominated by Outcasts and Arcanists IIRC so it's nice to see someone giving the steampunk cowboy dictators some love.

[Rameses]

Yes Mr. Mythicfox. Please create a blog for us

I've decided to go with Perdita and Mc Hammish as my crews and would be interested in following a good players blog. No offense to other "non"-guild players heh

[nilus]

Is Hoffstar the only "competitive" guild list? Also, No Ryle about? He's brutal with Hoff.

Not in the least. All 6 Guild leaders have something to offer and do well. With the new toys Guild got in book 4 I think we will be seeing a lot more higher ranking Guild players this year.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I agree with Nilus and Nix on this. The guild as a faction is very viable. I also agree with nix more on the point that hoff isn't all that competitive. To me the most competitive build is J, guards w/ Lucius for fixed master or fixed list. Also without play testing McCabe with guards is second best.

J has always been a support master to me more than a Melee beat stick. I also tend to shoot with her as often as Melee strikes.

I would say stalkers over rifleman. They bring so much more to the table with just the ability to remove effects. Austringers are way better then rifleman still, ability to ignore Los is huge at least with terrain setup I'm use to.

[Ozz]

I have to say, personally i cant recommend Francisco enough. He is just good at everything, and for generic guild minions, relatively fast.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Fran is great model but lacks synergy. Unless you are bringing another family member he is subpar to all other 4pt guild options.

[dgraz]

Fran is great model but lacks synergy. Unless you are bringing another family member he is subpar to all other 4pt guild options.

Because the other 4ss models have so much synergy? What synergy does a DM have with Sonnia or Perdita.....or a Guard? For 1ss more, Francisco is faster than any of them, has a higher CB with sword and gun than any of them, does more damage, has an extra trigger, and a great spell.

[edonil]

I do find it odd to see the comment on synergy...one of the strengths that I've seen in Guild is almost best described as a lack of synergy. Guild has some of the best cheap minions in the game (Witchlings, Death Marshals and so on) and they give tremendous flexibility because they're solid in and of themselves. Sure, some Masters can improve different aspects of things nicely, but it's not a necessity. That ability to go 'I need shooting. Guess I'm bringing Death Marshals and Riflemen!' or 'I need Magical Weapons. I've got Witchlings!' is one of the hallmarks of the Guild as I've seen it.

[dgraz]

Totally agree Ed.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Witching brings maybe not direct crew synergy but lump him with witching handler and you have a speedy cheap model.

Death marshal has finish the job bumping up other death marshal including judge DMg output. Mind you not very useful.

Guild guard with Lucius enough said.

Rifleman with Lucius and other rifleman huge synergy.

Now all models listed above are 4ss and all but one have 6 wounds and most have some defensive boost, (ie h2w, armor, death burst).

Fran has 6 wounds and can companion for other family, high CBs average def 5, stubborn. Great stuff he is average speed but he is 5ss compared to above I think a weak selection without family.

Guild has quite a lot of synergies but those synergies do not need to be a major focus for our guild crews to work.

Not saying Fran is bad but he is easily mitigated and quite weak compared to what a witch long stalker can bring or guild guard in a Lucius crew. Or 2 dogs for same cost for that matter. Fran is a good model compared to other factions but in guild he is overshadowed by better cheaper minions. My comments on directed by this thread being about competitive play. Fran doesn't meet the cut for me. That is also because I rank perdita low on competitive list.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[Jonas Albrecht]

Great thread, MythicFox. I'm looking forward to hearing about the rest of your games.

[dgraz]

Fran doesn't meet the cut for me. That is also because I rank perdita low on competitive list.

Well, I guess that's why we disagree. I think Perdita is one of the most competitive Guild Masters. We could go back and forth about Fran all day....I certainly don't get how a Stalker is better......different ....as you said it has some Def buffs but Fran has Offensive buffs with Duelist, Fannin', and Flurry....on a Cb 7, 2" reach (on the sword) model with with a huge damage track....those are all things none of the other models you mentioned bring to the table.

I believe he is unappreciated because people know how dangerous he can be and he usually gets killed pretty quick......but if you know how to use him he can be quite effective.

[osoi]

I also see a lot of people sending Fran up as a first wave of which he does not do well. I have used him in support and counter attack and he is really solid. You just need to play to have him in the game for mid to late game and not rush with him.

As far as no Ryle with Hoffman, I have actually cut him from most lists and found I can do even more as it frees up points for a Witchling (which I was generally taking anyway when fielding Ryle), Wastrel and traps or combination of all three.