Keltheos Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Please discuss the Hamelin errata posted in: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?37795-HAMELIN-ERRATA-(OR-maybe-the-world-is-ending-after-all) here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kadeton Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 I see it very differently. That was a powerful ability that let Hamelin move and then charge any target with straight flips and an almost guaranteed 9 points of damage. This change takes care of that 5+8+2 threat while there is still much room for that action. For example Focused strike is not a better option against HtW models, even without HtW a draw will yield damage while Fate is Meaningless works just fine in case of ties. Also you can't Focus a Charge, right? I'm very glad about this part of the Errata. Yep, all that's true - by "almost always" I meant basically against models without HtW. The Focus is generally better because you get the on the attack as well, and a lot of the time you'll be getting a damage result overall. I generally wouldn't like to charge Hamelin that far away from the models that he's keeping alive and using for all his sacrifices anyway, but I've never had an issue with getting straight damage flips on a charge against anything that's not HtW. Basically, it makes Fate is Meaningless into a very narrow ability (it will also still be useful when casting spells in a Witchling's aura, for example, but that's not going to happen every game). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 DeleteAccount Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 These errata are good for a Hamelin crew but totally screw my Kirai nix crew, wyrd clearly focused on the Hamelin crew for the errata, removing the ability to kill a rat totally screws Kirai. (see my experiment thread in rezzer forum) not happy at all. I wouldn't have bought, nix or rats or rami if I knew you were planning to screw over Hamelin's crew models not just him. It has been hinted for a long time that a hamelin errata was coming and it was wishful thinking if you expected it only to affected Hamelin himself. Does it suck for you? yes, but god knows the game is better thanks to it and a lot of people will be a lot more happy being able to play with and against Hamelin more calmly that one guy that got boned with a combo he was trying out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 FearLord Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 It has been hinted for a long time that a hamelin errata was coming and it was wishful thinking if you expected it only to affected Hamelin himself. Does it suck for you? yes, but god knows the game is better thanks to it and a lot of people will be a lot more happy being able to play with and against Hamelin more calmly that one guy that got boned with a combo he was trying out. I'd go so far as to say that a Hamelin Errata was explicitly stated as coming and that it was also explicitly stated that the reason its been a while coming is that any errata of Hamelin would inevitably involve an errata of his crew (as Rats were clearly one of the biggest problems with the whole thing...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Pigeonsmythe Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 It has been hinted for a long time that a hamelin errata was coming and it was wishful thinking if you expected it only to affected Hamelin himself. Does it suck for you? yes, but god knows the game is better thanks to it and a lot of people will be a lot more happy being able to play with and against Hamelin more calmly that one guy that got boned with a combo he was trying out. Fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Yeah, I wondered about this too. It's possible that it only refers to the types of hazardous terrain that would inflict (for example) 2/4/killed on damage, and then only if the "killed" result is flipped. Hmm interesting Keltheos? Ratty? Can rats writhing mass while on one wound? Can they walk through hazardous terrain? Is it just the /killed flip that kills them? And finally. Because you only take damage from terrain in your own activation, this means rats can never be killed by Kaeris's Immolate marker.. Because as it is it doesn't wound when placed. Last time this came up we flipped to see if immolate causes damage immediately or only once the model under it moves. It turned out they didn't take the dmg straight away, and the all went on to kill Kaeris.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Cyphre Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Don't know if anyone has asked this, but could we have a PDF of the Dreamer/LCB/Daydreams/Alps cards with the erratas as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 dmeep Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Im hoping the option to buy updated cards from the store becomes an option somewhere along the line aswell as i cant get cardstock through any printer i have acess to and flimsy cards make me sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 xKoBiEx Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 They're Just Rats seems to be misinterpreted. To me, it seems clear that the rat can die during its own activation...just not friendly models' activations. I may be wrong on this but the rule does not say it can't be killed in its own activation and even gives an example of it happening with terrain. Poison and other beginning of activation effects should also be added to the same effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Boshea Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) They're Just Rats seems to be misinterpreted. To me, it seems clear that the rat can die during its own activation...just not friendly models' activations. I may be wrong on this but the rule does not say it can't be killed in its own activation and even gives an example of it happening with terrain. Poison and other beginning of activation effects should also be added to the same effect. I asked about this and was told that you're always friendly to yourself. So even in its own activation it can't be reduced to 0 wounds. Super Hard to Kill is the best alternative to the two situations for rats. Either they can die and you get into the endless activations again by just tossing rats into damage effects and bringing new ones in with Voracious Rats, or every effect that kills them in a friendly turn removes them like dangerous terrain making them useless against everything with a defensive ability. Edit-The dangerous terrain clause is to prevent a loop in your opponent's turn. Without it you get this. 1 Rats is in terrain, gets killed by enemy model 2 Place new Rat in Hazardous Terrain 3 Rat enters terrain causing damage flip 4 Rat dies from terrain 5 Return to step 2, and repeat until rat is not placed in terrain Now its just Rat is in hazardous terrain, gets killed by enemy model, remove rat from play. Edited December 23, 2012 by Boshea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) Rats cannot be reduced to zero wounds on a friendly models activation. They are friendly to themselves. It is most definitely intended. ---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 AM ---------- They're Just Rats seems to be misinterpreted. To me, it seems clear that the rat can die during its own activation...just not friendly models' activations. I may be wrong on this but the rule does not say it can't be killed in its own activation and even gives an example of it happening with terrain. Poison and other beginning of activation effects should also be added to the same effect. No it does not. It says if it would be killed while within. Not killed while within during its own activation... ---------- Post added at 06:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 AM ---------- This is really not that hard. It really works, trust me. Get him on the table like others have had to and you will see. Edited December 23, 2012 by Ausplosions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 poulpox Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I've just picked up Hamlin's crew and wondered what is your opinion on the errata and its impact on model count: will Hamlin still need 10+ rats? What about stolen, are 3 enough now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Yes. Many rats are still required. I rarely have more than 3 stolen, but have more if required, the Wp test to avoid paralyze is golden. ---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 PM ---------- Yes. Many rats are still required. I rarely have more than 3 stolen, but have more if required, the Wp test to avoid paralyze is golden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kadeton Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I'd say my recommendations for a solid Hamelin model pool are the same as they were before: 12 Rats, 6 Stolen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 nerdelemental Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 In fact, I think there's logic in building more rats in the hiring process as the summon/recursion is a bit mitigated now. Over the course of the game you might see the normal amount on the board (as before errata), but the Hamelin player may want to come packing several more to start. Especially since they're a bit longer in the tooth now that the RC can force them to lose Slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Mister Tezla Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 So one question with the new wording of Nihilism: With Nix, since it is an Aura that does not state it includes this model, does that mean if Nix is away from Hamelin he is Insignificant while making those models around him significant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ozz Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 So one question with the new wording of Nihilism: With Nix, since it is an Aura that does not state it includes this model, does that mean if Nix is away from Hamelin he is Insignificant while making those models around him significant? If the aura does not say it includes the model then it does not, and so nix will be insignificant if it is still on his card, same as hamelin if I remember correctly, and it was nor changed. (Just on phone arm and so can not check errata easily atm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Csonti Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 So one question with the new wording of Nihilism: With Nix, since it is an Aura that does not state it includes this model, does that mean if Nix is away from Hamelin he is Insignificant while making those models around him significant? It is not an aura. Every friendly model is affected within 6". A model is always friendly to itself and always within any distance to itself. So Nix is Significant. And also Hamelin btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Mister Tezla Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Ahh Ok, I must have misread, as looking back I see it isn't an aura as you said. Good, cause Nix and Hamelin would be silly if they had to be close to one another to be insignificant. The current system reminds me a little of Synapse creatures in a W40k Tyranid army (which I also happen to field) so should be easy to adapt into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Hateful Darkblack Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 I got all excited to try these rules with the Gingerbread scenario, then realized that they would be a nightmare with the Gingerbread scenario! (Do Hamelin's models start with gifts or not?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 loudo Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Thank you for this Wyrd! It is always good to see proof that you listen to your loyal fans... Now im off to buy some rats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Dwug Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 I was given Hamlin but have never played him. This may just get him on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Turbodog Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Just checking... Is it intended that a rat (or any number of them) can kill a guild executioner now? I mean, his slow to die goes off, but it's impossible for him to kill a rat and regain his health, so he just dies? This didn't used to be the case with him and rats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Just checking... Is it intended that a rat (or any number of them) can kill a guild executioner now? I mean, his slow to die goes off, but it's impossible for him to kill a rat and regain his health, so he just dies? This didn't used to be the case with him and rats... Yes, they can't be reduced to zero wounds in their own activation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Turbodog Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Yes, they can't be reduced to zero wounds in their own activation. Oh. What about a killed effect? Like the guild executioner's trigger decapitate? Can that still kill them and allow him to heal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 IOh. What about a killed effect? Like the guild executioner's trigger decapitate? Can that still kill them and allow him to heal? If it doesn't reduce the rat to zero wounds then I would say yes. But would need the wording of decapitate and love the job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Keltheos
Please discuss the Hamelin errata posted in: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?37795-HAMELIN-ERRATA-(OR-maybe-the-world-is-ending-after-all) here.
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