What happens if Zoraida Hexes away Decayed Machine?

[Hateful Darkblack]

A dumb little question I've been wondering. I don't think it could ever come up in play, but it's theoretically legal.

The rules state that, when killed, an Undead minions drops corpse counters, and a Construct drops scrap counters, both according to size.

There are a bunch of models that are Undead Constructs -- like the Dead Rider and the Steampunk Abomination. Each of these models has an Ability that specifies what happens when it dies.

Dead Rider has "Decayed Machine" (one corpse, two scrap.) Steampunk Abomination has "Warped" (you get to pick whether to drops corpse or scrap).

We're all good so far. Clear, crisp rules.

What happens if, just to be contrary, Zoraida Hexes away "Decayed Machine" or "Warped" before killing the Dead Rider or Steampunk Abomination?

[SpiralngCadavr]

Well, theoretically, rules would revert to whatever the natural state is. The rule of equivalency in the rules section of Rising Powers would be the answer, but I don't find it clear if it's saying what the maximum is total, or for a given type (the example isn't the clearest in the world).

I think you may have found an interesting, if incredibly situational, loophole.

[Mike3838]

Surely the default is "drop Corpse counters equal to your base size, unless you're a construct, then drop scrap"?

Mike

[magicpockets]

Well, theoretically, rules would revert to whatever the natural state is. The rule of equivalency in the rules section of Rising Powers would be the answer, but I don't find it clear if it's saying what the maximum is total, or for a given type (the example isn't the clearest in the world).

I think you may have found an interesting, if incredibly situational, loophole.

The RoE has been revoked with the release of the Rules Manual - I'm not sure if you were around at the time but it got VERY messy and Wyrd pulled it for the sake of keeping things simple.

Surely the default is "drop Corpse counters equal to your base size, unless you're a construct, then drop scrap"?

Mike

The abilities put forward by the OP are for models which are both undead and constructs (I think that's why they have their own rules tbh) so the question is which would it default to if it happened. Good catch imo, if not very situational

[Alex]

I would recommend in such an odd corner case, for each counter that might be dropped, agree to flip for which type, perhaps with odd being one type and even being the other. Also, the Zoraida player gets two demerits for being a pain. *wink*

[Fetid Strumpet]

Well, taking the Dead Rider as an example, if you hexed off decayed machine, wouldn't it drop 3 scraps and 3 Corpse Counters?

[Lucidicide]

Well, taking the Dead Rider as an example, if you hexed off decayed machine, wouldn't it drop 3 scraps and 3 Corpse Counters?

Yes. There's nothing to say it wouldn't that I know of. Undead drop corpses. Constructs drop scrap. There's no reason it has to be one or the other. When it dies.

Besides which, there aren't that many times there will be a graverobber and a scavenger on the table, and even fewer times where one side will have both.

[CannonFodder]

Well, taking the Dead Rider as an example, if you hexed off decayed machine, wouldn't it drop 3 scraps and 3 Corpse Counters?

Before final ruling is made on this I'd like to add a comment that this can lead to abuse with Widow weaver. Sacrifice a 8-9 point model for 6 counters, would give the widow weaver enough counters for a Teddy & 2 left over for further summoning, either a second teddy (rare limit) or 2 more Wicked dolls.

[magicpockets]

Before final ruling is made on this I'd like to add a comment that this can lead to abuse with Widow weaver. Sacrifice a 8-9 point model for 6 counters, would give the widow weaver enough counters for a Teddy & 2 left over for further summoning, either a second teddy (rare limit) or 2 more Wicked dolls.

You're right, but I don think it's too much of an issue as a lt of crews can get 3 scrap for 5ss

[Hateful Darkblack]

I really doubt that a Rules Marshall is going to step in and resolve this, mind you.

It would be hilarious if you could use this to get double Scrap and Corpse counters. At that point, it may actually be a viable trick, if used with a Zoraida/Collodi/Weaver Widow grow crew.

I was thinking of it more in terms of "What is Zoraida wanders around Hexing things, trying to break rules and create tears in the Fourth Wall?"

A flip is probably the right way to go.

[CRC]

Point: Necrotic Machine can make things Undead.

Imagine a Leveticus / Molly list with the NM making a Large Arachnid an Undead/Construct. That's 3 scrap and 3 corpses, enough to make a Waif, Sybelle, and most of a DE, for only 5 points.

If you can afford to bring Alyce in there, you can do it all (cards willing) first turn.

[Lucidicide]

Point: Necrotic Machine can make things Undead.

Imagine a Leviticus / Molly list with the NM making a Large Arachnid an Undead/Construct. That's 3 scrap and 3 corpses, enough to make a Waif, Sybelle, and most of a DE, for only 5 points.

If you can afford to bring Alyce in there, you can do it all (cards willing) first turn.

Ha. Thanks for pointing this out. That's kind of awesome.

[rancor709]

Nice attempt but neceotic maxhine can only make a living model undead

So it wont work on construct

[Lucidicide]

Nice attempt but neceotic maxhine can only make a living model undead

So it wont work on construct

Aww. Rain on my parade.

[CRC]

That's both good and sad.

Oh well, next time....

[Lucidicide]

The Dust Storm is both a Construct and Undead, and the card has no mention of what happens when it does, unless I remember very poorly.

[Cunning]

The Dust Storm is both a Construct and Undead, and the card has no mention of what happens when it does, unless I remember very poorly.

Fairly sure it says generates no counters

[Sliver Chocobo]

Silly question here, Isn't the undead rider Immune to influence, so you can't hex it away

[Mydnight]

Silly question here, Isn't the undead rider Immune to influence, so you can't hex it away

I think in this instance it's more an example. Necropunks are both a construct and undead (was going to say Flesh Construct but it turns out he's immune to influence too.)

[egoon]

I think I've read somewhere that a model can never drop more counters than its base size allows. It still doesn't explain which type of counter is dropped though...

[Csonti]

Silly question here, Isn't the undead rider Immune to influence, so you can't hex it away

This is a real issue since Insidious Madness can get rid of ItI. Or Pandora in a Brawl.

[Elazar]

Did anybody find an answer to this? The part about Dust Storm is valid regardless of Zoraida hexing abilities off etc.

Ashen Core has the rule Decayed and doesn't drop any counters when killed.

The Dust Storm is a Contruct & Undead also but has no such rule so does it drop 2 of each type of counter?