i_was_like_you Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'm sure it's been said before... I know I even said it once when reading through book 2... But... We can hire one Henchman per Master in a Brawl Unfortunately, until we get other Henchmen with the same Special Forces characteristics as the ones we have now, there's no way we're allowed to hire more than one Henchman per Master. So if Minions ever get the ability to upgrade into Henchmen, they'll likely have to take on default Special Forces types. So Samael becoming a Henchman would have to be part of the Elite Division, if we expected to run two Guild Masters, say Sonnia and Perdita and two Guild Henchmen, in this case Sam and either an upgraded Ortega or Lucius. That example seems to make sense...But let's look at the other factions: Other Outcasts joining the Freikorps? Probably not going to happen. Sure, it seems like Misaki will be leading her own crew of Ten Thunders Brothers, but that will just be like the Freikorps, another mercenary crew that can be hired whole-cloth by by another faction, at an extra 'stone per model. So they can't work together in that capacity. Gremlins...Yeah, they could all be Kin, alright. Neverborn promoted to Henchmen couldn't / wouldn't possibly just all become Dolls, now would they? There's only one group of Nephilim...Then there's just other random Neverborn. Rezzers: Sure, Horrors is vague enough that anything could become a Horror. To Ramos, everything is an M&SU Asset, even if it doesn't realize it. I can't wait to see how this plays out come book 4. Ratty, I hope you're already privy to any details related to my wild ass speculations because if I'm even remotely correct, you're going to need the head start to get the Crew Creator able to accept two Masters and two Henchmen in a Brawl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaeVictus Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) @i_was_like_you - Excuse me, I'm new around here. We are currently at book 3 right? Twisting Fates. Now are there any official statements about book 4 and in general has there been any voiced... intention about the the way Malifaux is going to expand in the future. New factions? 2nd Edition? Any new rules in particular? Edited January 19, 2012 by VaeVictus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ratty is heavily involved in the development of Book 4, and for some reason I cannot fathom all new models have the Vermin characteristic @VaeVictus - as far as I am aware, nothing has been publicly stated about Book 4 yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 If things go as they have for the last few years, we'll see book 4, which, as rumor has it, is going to focus on Special Forces, as soon as GenCon rolls around this coming August*. Personally, I think that doesn't leave nearly enough room for playtesting between books, as not everyone allows / uses proxies prior to the actual release of models and the stat cards of models often have revisions that have been made between the publication of the book and the release of the actual model. *When GenCon happens, any GenCon-only Limited Edition figures will be available both at the convention and in the online store, along with any other models they might release early. This past GenCon they had pre-released many of the alts and avatars that have only been released recently, for example, Marcus' alt and avatar are on the February release list, which means we should see them by March. This has led to some other issues over whether avatars should be allowed when 1) In official tournament, proxying of unreleased models is not allowed, even though they are printed (in at least nearly final draft) in the book. 2) Not all avatars have even been released as models. 3) Not everyone purchased the avatars that are slated to be released during the GenCon pre-release. So, yeah, I'm aiming a bit far forward, but seeing and realizing that we have the potential to get yet another great game-changer with the next book kinda stoked me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ratty is heavily involved in the development of Book 4, and for some reason I cannot fathom all new models have the Vermin characteristic That's not what I heard. *waggles eyebrows* I heard that all vermin count as beasts now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 That's not what I heard. *waggles eyebrows* I heard that all vermin count as beasts now. It's a complete lie... some of them are human slaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 It's a complete lie... some of them are human slaves. Like this one? If not, I'll just have to add some lil' horns, match the skin tone to that of my other Nephilim, and call it Perdita's totem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ratty is heavily involved in the development of Book 4, and for some reason I cannot fathom all new models have the Vermin characteristic @VaeVictus - as far as I am aware, nothing has been publicly stated about Book 4 yet. Expect the Overload of Rats as a new master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Of all Neverborn minions, the one that strikes me the most as a potential henchwoman is Nekima. There were hints in the forums here that the +:masks from Nekima could be more useful one day. Wait and see. from http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showpost.php?p=327824&postcount=48] The big issue is that Lilith currently has dibs on the whole Nephilim thing, and as stated above, they are all bunched in one single force, even if some are radically different than others (lelu, lilitu vs rest of em). However lilith seems to be more oriented toward forests (we could actually see more of that theme...even a special force of angry trees). For Arcanists, a similar question can be asked of Snow Storm, to a lesser extent. There are hints in the fluff that she could be independant, but how different would she be from Rasputina? Edited January 19, 2012 by Sybaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JisaacT Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I would love to see some more forrest and nephalims! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keltheos Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Cheese Gamin, I think Ratty's pushing for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Cheese Gamin, I think Ratty's pushing for them. yeah and they are definitely not Vermin, they have the 'Light Snack' trait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keltheos Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Light Snack Counters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Personally, I think that doesn't leave nearly enough room for playtesting between books, as not everyone allows / uses proxies prior to the actual release of models and the stat cards of models often have revisions that have been made between the publication of the book and the release of the actual model. Alpha playtesting begins way before the beta tests and those test cycles have occured several months prior to the Gencon release. They are gruelling endevours for sure. The big issue is that Lilith currently has dibs on the whole Nephilim thing, and as stated above, they are all bunched in one single force, even if some are radically different than others (lelu, lilitu vs rest of em). However lilith seems to be more oriented toward forests (we could actually see more of that theme...even a special force of angry trees). Nekima's fluff suggests that she has a Nephlim force that is loyal to her instead of her keniving sister. Light Snack Counters. Please no more counters!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hmm, that's an interesting tidbit there, OP. The "One Henchmen per Master" rule does indeed seem to imply that if nothing else, they've left some room open for additional henchmen from the same Special Forces. Or maybe there could be henchmen with no special forces group (ie. Generic Henchmen)? It might actually make it easier to include Henchmen versions of existing minions without having to introduce a whole new set of special forces. That said I'm not sure if the rules have left room for this - I'll have to reread the book. On a related note, I've said this before but doing henchman versions of existing models is a tricky balancing act. If the Henchmen models are just upgraded versions of the existing minions then you run the risk of that minion becoming obsolete. In other words, the henchmen would need to fill their own niche in the game. The other tidbit I picked up from Book 3 was about Avatars. I don't have the book in front of me but the rules had something along the lines of being able to assign only one Avatar per Master. So... additional Avatars? Would be very cool, and I'm sure Wyrd would love to do some more extreme/awesome Master-type models. :smuppuppet1 There was also rumours of story scenanarios, including a "Story Scenario Pack" in one of the Gamers Lounge Episodes, so perhaps that could be part of book 4? Right now, my guesses for Book 4 would be any of the following; - Additional Special forces (with Attached Henchmen) - Generic Henchmen? - League Rules - Campaign Rules - Story Scenarios Probably later down the track; - Additional Avatars per Master And awesome things I'd like to see one day; - Masters changing factions (I Seriously want to see an Outcast Zoraida who can take in-faction gremlins)! - Models that take advantage of the Transformation rules in the Rules Manual, like some kind of Werebadger or Werecroc (currently it's just Myranda :sadpuppet1 ) - More reasons to take the Malifaux Child and/or Bishop - More Bayou/Swamp Creatures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Generic special forces seems like it'd be the way to go. Having them become the Henchman for X Special Force would allow them to either go it alone, in place of the other Hench, or team up with them in a Brawl. I think it should be like Avatars, merely be an upgrade to existing models so that the existing models have every reason to shine. Sure, you can release an alt for some of them, but the stat cards for Generic henchman upgrade could just come with book 4, maybe one or two blank ones per faction. Just shrink wrap them with the book or send them in the cases with the books. It'd also allow for the possibility of having nearly any model (except Ronin) become a Henchman. I'd love to see people have the option to run Minion Hamelin, Hamelin the Plagued, or just upgrade Minion Hamelin into Henchman Hamelin. I don't really like the Plagued aspect of Hammie, but I'd be down with running a more powerful version of his normal self. SS use to help with Obey would be scary on its own. For Guild, sure I'd like to see Sam as a Hench, but I'd also like to just be able to have the Witchling Handler take a 25ss crew of Stalkers with one or two other support models and see what happens. As much as I like options that let the game size grow, I really want to see options that let us get some quick and dirty Henchmen battles in too. I'd noticed the only one avatar per master and you don't have to announce which avatar it is. It certainly suggests that if I'm not a fan of some of the avatars, I could wait it out until, what, book 5, before getting some new options. I've commented that a lot of masters completely change their semi-default crew lists, especially for new players who just want to pick up their crew box plus a totem and a model or two, and then just buy the avatar to add onto it. Oh, you bought Lilith and want to make the best use of her avatar. You should have just bought her and her avatar and a couple packs of Waldgeists. You don't want her tots and other Nephilim getting in the way. Same with Levi. People had waited awhile for Ashes & Dust to be released only to find that his avatar is meant for four other small box models. Sure, I'd wanted to run Levi with the Horsemen, with the Peacekeeper as the fourth, but then when they actually made it worthwhile, I was already too far behind on that idea. I still have none of the riders. Maybe come book 5 or so he'll have an avatar that does something else. That's not to say I don't want to run this version, it just makes it seem like it's going to be the most expensive crew and isn't really going to shine unless I play it in a higher ss game. Besides, having a few avatar options, hiring one, start going for the requirements for one of them to throw your opponent off guard, then totally just fulfilling the other one and manifesting could be a very fun tactic. But I thought you were going to go with his new avatar Sorry, haven't bought that one yet. Don't tell me you're sick of his old one already? With Masters changing factions: Before book 3, I'd written a short fiction of Colette & her showgirls being assassinated by Levi & Co., only to have Cassandra wake up on a gurney in McMourning's morgue. Just adding the option for Colette and her crew to add Belles to every instance in which they have Showgirls would certainly spice things up. Imagine Seamus' delight in hiring Colette and her Showgirls in a Brawl. We already have seen a hint of this in the Dead Doxy. Oh, and as far as story scenarios, I thought they were already available for download. Edited January 20, 2012 by i_was_like_you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgar Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'd be quite angry. Colette is one of the few Masters who isn't an utterly terrible human being. I think an option to raise some of the existing unique models to Henchman status is in order. Either a henchman version, or something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I'd be quite angry. Colette is one of the few Masters who isn't an utterly terrible human being. Then you'll really hate it once I post the story...at some point. I wrote it nearly a year ago, on my old cellphone. The idea just kinda came to me at work one day [Had quite a bit of time to think at work when I was working at a greenhouse, packing flowers and vegetables to mail cross-country. Even gardeners buy "pre-painted, pre-assembled" miniatures.]. I think an option to raise some of the existing unique models to Henchman status is in order. Either a henchman version, or something similar. As much as using Uniques would make sense, I'd still like to see a little more versatility with it. Like with my Witchling Handler example, being Rare 1, if we upgraded her to Henchwoman, we could still only have that one in a Scrap. But in a Brawl, We could have two Masters and still hire two Hench Handlers to help wrangle those Stalkers. I'd much rather run a crew that way, very flavorful and yet still able to function, than to go, Okay, so I can hire Lucius as my one Guild Henchman or I can hire VonSchill, but I want to do this instead. Oh, this came up the other day when I was playing Sonnia versus Rasputina: When are we going to get the Fire Golem to go against the Ice Golem? There's clearly already been artwork for it as far back as book one. Edited January 20, 2012 by i_was_like_you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 - Additional Special forces (with Attached Henchmen) Pleasepleasepleaseletmefinallygetatenthundersspecialforcesplease Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'd be quite angry. Colette is one of the few Masters who isn't an utterly terrible human being. I think an option to raise some of the existing unique models to Henchman status is in order. Either a henchman version, or something similar. Hoffman Lady J Lilith Also aren't terrible people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hoffman Lady J Lilith Also aren't terrible peopleNeither is McMourning, if you really look at it. He's just doing what he has to do...FOR SCIENCE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Neither is McMourning, if you really look at it. He's just doing what he has to do...FOR SCIENCE! .. and the people who are still alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgar Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Neither is McMourning, if you really look at it. He's just doing what he has to do...FOR SCIENCE! McMourning just randomly kills people because murder is more convenient for him. He's not a good guy by any stretch. He's probably not actually bad as Seamus, but that's setting the bar really really low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgar Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hoffman Lady J Lilith I did say one of. Hoffman you can't really say anything about as he really hasn't had to prove himself one way or another. He seems like a nice enough guy though. Lady Justice is firmly a good guy, although she doesn't work for good people. Lilith I'm not so sure. She seems to have reasonably pure motivations (saving Malifaux and stopping the Tyrant Entities), but her plans seem to involve too much manipulation and murder to really put her solidly with the good guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiles Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 McMourning just randomly kills people because murder is more convenient for him. He's not a good guy by any stretch. He's probably not actually bad as Seamus, but that's setting the bar really really low.Doesn't seem so random if you read. He killed those guild investigators to cover up his experiments. If they had caught him, his experiments would have stopped. No experiments = no SCIENCE! He's just doing what he has to do. (Sebastian actually does most of the murdering.) He mostly uses the corpses brought in for autopsy for his experiments. They're not using their bodies anymore, where's the harm in that? He's just misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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