The secret of Marcus?

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

Hello World,

I've only just recently started Marcus and have not succeeded many times with him. But, as I play him more, I start to see things about him and his crew. I think the flaw in the way I run Marcus, and the flaw that maybe some others are too, is that I rely on him to run his crew.

In the same way that the Dreamer, or Lilith, or Von Schill, or Collodi, or Collette, or any of the other Masters I've used, I expected Marcus to be a strong leader who really synergizes with his crew; he does not. Marcus only has one ability that he uses to buff them, and that is howl (+3 willpower), he can heal but it’s not an easy spell and requires one of his precious AP’s. Then you look at him as a melee master, since he is not going to be positioning his troops or enhancing them, but even this he does not do. Compared to the other melee master’s out there, Lady J, Viki’s, Lilith; he doesn’t stack up.

So then what the hell is Marcus good for? The answer is, nothing. That’s right, Marcus is not a pivotal member of his crew once it is built. Marcus’s purpose to allow access to any beast in the game. This give him access to more models that I think anyone else. Unlike other Masters, whose job it is to carry the game, it’s actually the crew that carries the game for Marcus. Finding the right combinations and synergies with beasts from other factions is what gives his crew power.

Marcus is the most tactical master, in that, he has to play to the schemes and strategies of the game to win. Unlike some masters, who can be put down regardless of objectives and really on their own innate abilities to deliver death, Marcus and his minions have to bring exactly the right tools to the job. Which, luckily, they can. If one where to have a complete beast collection, they could build a crew to accomplish any mission. I think that playing Marcus this way is they way to victory. I will probably leave him with little to no SS and hide him the corner. Or, use him as a support role for taking down middle class minions. In no way, do I feel, Marcus is a master killer or a 8 and higher SS minion killer. He simply cannot handle the damage nor give it out. Failure to optimize his Wild Hearts spell leaves him with impressively bad 1/2/4 damage. Hell, even his totem doesn’t do jack (pun intended) for him.

I’m going to be trying my theory out over the next couple of months and seeing if I am correct. If you agree/disagree or have any insight into this concept, or a concept of your own, I’d like to discuss it.

Thanks

[ukrocky]

I'm currently revising so can't spend hours revising, but long story short, Marcus is a hit and run master who can happily deal out the damage to all but the best combat masters. I find his two worst match ups are Lady Justice and Lilith, but stuff like Teddy he can quite happily take on and kill, and I'd never run him with less then 8ss.

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

"I'm currently revising so can't spend hours revising"

I got to say I dont understand what you meant here.

[ukrocky]

I meant to say replying instead of the second revising. Brain = mush.

[Ebonstar]

I play arcanists pretty much full time, and Marcus represents pure fun to me.

I don't normally win with Marcus. It doesn't seem to matter to me though, he is crazy fun. I have to agree that a Marcus crew is really a list-builder's dream- this isn't the type of crew that you want a "set power list" mentality, though having core units for strategies are important. The beauty of Marcus lies in players that have a wide range of things available and simply know when to bring them out and how to capitalize on Marcus' overall diversity.

With other masters, you get a fairly good idea of what you might see on the board. It's not that simple with Marcus.

That said, I am terribad with Marcus, because I like to do dumb things that sound really fun, lol. Like in that last game I mentioned, I ran this as a 25ss list against Ophelia:

Marcus

Jackalope

2 x Silurids

4 x Night Terrors

Desperate Merc (I forgot to bring my Malifaux Raptor, LOL)

This was my "super fast run up and die in your face" list. It's freakin hilarious versus gremlins. We had shared destroy the evidence, so I took Power Ritual and Primal Source as schemes. I flew the bats straight into his gunline, snagging 2 evidence counters on the way and ritual'ing two corners but getting clogged at #3 (plus he was using a McTavish I lent him for more skeet shooting LOL) since my opponent accidentally stood over it.

The game had to end early but after three turns I had power ritual done and 2 evidence markers claimed, and was also wiped off the board, LOL.

[tadaka]

Lol ebon me and you going to have to have a marcus vs marcus game some time that way one of us can win a game with him

[Ebonstar]

LOL yeah!

Honestly I know I can be playing smarter with Marcus, but the stuff he can do is too fun to pass up. I admire ukrocky for showing us what a good Marcus player is really capable of, and I can be the example of what a bad player does with him, LOL!

[rancor709]

I really enjoy marcus. He is such a departure from my Ressurectionists and I really enjoy his play style. Marcus is hit and run its what he does best and what a majority of his minion options can do. But yes with him more than any other master in order to do well you have to focus on the strategy and schemes and play to them. he is a master that really rewards list design and a deep model availablity pool.

[Victoria]

Seems to me like the key to Marcus is knowing which pieces to play, and then being prepared to sacrifice any one of them at a moments notice to achieve your objective. I really admire a well played Marcus!

[tadaka]

Never understood the whole hit and run marcus idea as being his str. Run ya he can be fast as hell. Hit sure he can put out some nice damage but how do you get him in and out with out getting blasted. He does not ignore disengaging strikes has a free charge in but not a charge out. Just does not feel like he does more then hit and get hit back.

[TreeNinja]

I agree with ukrocky. Marcus's play style is true gorilla warfare. He is not about standing toe-to-toe with anyone. He is all about the strafing runs. The run around his opponents and cause them to go crazy tactics. it can be very hard to accomplish startagies such as contain power against opponents like Lady J. but he is super amazing at statagies such as destroy the evidance. Marcus is by far my all time favorite master, so I am kind of biased. I disagree that he has nothing to add to his crew aside from being able to put them together, however I will agree that he is not a lynch pin in his crew which if you ask me is a bonus. it is true his damage out put is not great but with his wild heard ability he becomes very versitile as he can add + flips to att and/or damage and even add +2 to the damage so that his 1/2/4 turns into a 3/4/6 which can be very respectavle the getting free attacks and even a 1 ap charge are not bad at all either. so no he doesn't due crazy damage but he can add in the extra umpf to make his strafing attacks really count where it matters.

The other thing to point out is when you do start to get Marcus down and start to win consistantly. other players just look at you with this confused look because they just knew going in that you using Marcus meant you would just never win.

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

Joes, I agree with that assessment. But, there really is not a lot of synergy with Marcus and his crew. I feel like he has three role in a game. Grab obectives (he is fast), kill middle tier minions, or harrassement (using Alpha). Can't think of anything else really.

[brdparker]

There not being a lot of synergy, I think that makes the amount there is all the more important. Howl (especially if you can do it outside of activation via Obey-effects like from McTavish), Alpha-striking, and Staring Down are that much more important because of lack of other combos.

[TreeNinja]

I think as brdparker points out there are alot more types of synergy combos that come into play when you start going outside of the Arcanist beast pool. I will agree there are not a whole lot when you are just using Arcanist beast. but I don't just look at abilitis, I also look at how a crew moves with one another, and when you look at how Marcus can keep up with his crew to take advantage of the hit and run tactics with his beast you see that the synergy is not in their combined abilities all of the models have but in the fact that the can operate as a unit.

[TreeNinja]

Almost forgot to mention Marcus's ability to turn other models into a beast which will allow for some interesting combos like teaming up a shikome with a coryphee duet.

As for getting him out of melee you can either raise his Df to a 7 which can help him get out or have one of your models charge him ans use his defend me trigger to pull him out such as the razorspines.

[Rathnard]

Doesn't Defend Me only work against enemy models?

[poulpox]

Doesn't Defend Me only work against enemy models?

No you can shoot or charge him with your own models, and switch Marcus with another of your beasts (not the one which charged though) to pull him out

[i_was_like_you]

Marcus, like a lot of Masters, is quite capable of going off and doing his own thing while his forces do something completely different. While your opponent is focused on your Master or on your other forces, it frees the opposite up to take them off guard. I certainly don't see a problem with that. Lack of synergy / diversity...Tomayto / tomahto.

So far, the versatility of his lists is exactly why I haven't picked up Marcus yet. Far too many models and tricks I'd want to try out. The February release of Marcus' alt and avatar, for those of us who hadn't picked him up from GenCon, is tempting me to finally give him a go. That, and I've had a paint scheme in mind for at least Myranda and the Cerebus (even if most people avoid using both) for awhile now.

Besides, most of the real synergy in crews comes at a cost of diversity. Some Masters work extremely well with an exceptionally small pool of models, almost as if they were just barely a step above the hiring restrictions placed on Henchmen. Sure they can hire other models, but usually it cripples them in other ways.

[Nephalumps]

Seems to me like the key to Marcus is knowing which pieces to play, and then being prepared to sacrifice any one of them at a moments notice to achieve your objective. I really admire a well played Marcus!

Expanding a bit on this: part of playing Marcus well is also knowing what pieces not to play.

Marcus has a huge model selection, but in reality, only a portion of those models are really useful. A big part of being able to run Marcus well is figuring out which models work well in general, then which models are suited for each strat/scheme. From there, you can start to build your lists effectively.

Combine that with how tricky Marcus is to use (he resets every turn, and his Wild Heart ability gives you at least one big decision to make every turn,) and its definitely a crew that takes a lot of practice to use well.

If I were to give one piece of advice to anyone starting out with Marcus, it'd be to limit the amount of models you end up buying! Keep your pool to a small set of useful models (which will probably still big a bigger pool than most Masters have access to,) and you'll be able to refine your in game tactics, instead of doing constant list juggling.

[i_was_like_you]

If I were to give one piece of advice to anyone starting out with Marcus, it'd be to limit the amount of models you end up buying! Keep your pool to a small set of useful models (which will probably still big a bigger pool than most Masters have access to,) and you'll be able to refine your in game tactics, instead of doing constant list juggling.

I haven't done the model count, but I'd say Nicodem, Leveticus, and Zoraida are also up there on the variety of models they can hire. Sure, those will tend to get pared down to multiples of a few consistent models, but the options are there.

[TreeNinja]

Doesn't Defend Me only work against enemy models?

No it can be any model that performs those types of attacks against Marcus. the only stippulation that you have to keep in mind is that you have to have another friendly beast within 3" of Marcus to pull it off.

That is where using the razor spine can be useful as you can move without drawing disengaging strikes against it or myranda who whould then (if you time the activation right) use her +1 melee then shift to something like the sabortooth and use her +2 melee along with her last AP.

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

I need to buy more models. I want all the beasts in the books. I wholely believe that its the composition of the list the makes Marcus good. I also think using him to Alpha important enemy models is definetly the thing to do.

[Koali]

I would not rely on Alpha...

there are 4 negative Points bout Alpha

1) It needs a Mask (OK.. if you have one)... therefore it does not work against Immune to Influence Models... but thats not so important.

2) Its a 2 AP Action... so nothing else to do for marcus this turn! Leaves him allon near the enemy...

3) You have to make the enemy a beast first... that makes 2 Spells the opponent can Resist... hard to pull of.

4) It has no long range... to be in 8" around the Enemy beatstick or important model means that marcus will get a lot of trouble if you cannot make the spell... and even if you make it... he is still in trouble.. beeing infront of the enemy with no AP left to run... and that is what Marcus is realy good at.

if you have Marcus around somthing and your Oponent was that stoopid to have his beatstick next to marcus at the end of the turn without support... and marcus still activating... well OK... but even than i woul prefer to hit this model very hard with meleeattacks... and +2 Damage and Positive Attackflips... means in best case Dead Beatstick... insted of enemy beatstick runs amok and is still there and next turn he´ll rip Marcus´s Head of...

Hmm...

So see Alpha as a supporty Spell thats realy not that thing you can rely a strategy on!

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

Well if you have a 9 of mask in your hand then you're good to go. Cost an important model a activation is work the SS's IMO. Just because you can use that melee to wreck someone's day. Or force them off an objective and they lose an activation (possibly)

[ukrocky]

I still haven't used alpha in 60+ games with Marcus, you swap Marcus' activation for someone elses, and to do it means you're in charge range.