brdparker Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 So when I started malifaux, I loved these little buggers, the idea that I could devour a ht. 2 model and do upwards of 8 damage in a shot was really cool to me... and then I saw how valuable speed was, especially in a Marcus crew, and how rare it was to go against living models, and the value of the Hoarcats shot to... a basically constant state of being benched. Doesn't help that the reason for healing them is so they can deal more damage on strikes, and the only way to heal them inherent in the card ends their activation. Harmless is... marginally better than not having that ability at all. Evasive 3 is good, if situational. So now I'm looking at them again because, honestly? I bought them, and I want a reason to use them. There are interesting combos (Myranda's in Hoarcat form to Animal Instincts their Devour, with aMarc, can give a +2 Cg, and activate them next with beastly damage, which is nice) but them feel like they need something more. Any thoughts on how to effectively use them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geistwald Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hoarcats are tutorial-level easy to neutralize, and they're too expensive to find their strength in numbers. They are slow, their nice melee capability is volatile, and devour is hard to use (or upright useless) vs most opponents. Okay probably this isn't the most constructive answer you'll get in this thread, but my best advice is: don't frustrate yourself with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brdparker Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Saddening, but unfortunately, I don't think there is going to be another answer. Thanks for the reply at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Eh unfortunetly there are a few book 1 minions that were kind of sub par book ome and have been totaly back burner book 2. I hope some of them will eventualy get some love some how. Beyond that best use for them. Teach new people the game and use them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancor709 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The Hoarcats are something for Zombie Dogs to chase. Sorry couldn't resist. Hoarcats are a unit that is exceedingly niche in its uses mainly causing problems with living models and eating ht1. Which while useful in the realities of your local scene and the game since the second book was released the cats just aren't the meow anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm not sure they were that good before book two TBH. If they were 4 stones, or had a Guild Hound like ability to get cheaper, say 3 for 10ss or whatever they would be better. Arcanists have always struggled with not having cheap significant models (<6ss) worth taking. That's why the amazingly average Molemen still see so much play. Union Miners may solve this issue for us to some extent. Given they're; mobile, significant and cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rascally Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 :sadpuppet2 Have bought a set to go with my new Rasputina crew. Mostly because I thought they looked cute. Will be getting another set. However, I can't help but feel their most useful feature will be to lull my opponent into a false sense of security. Play them against him a couple of times, make him think I'm easy to beat, then drop 'em for something else and eat his face. :happypuppet1 Don't know what I'll replace them with though..:confusedpuppet2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Use them to help base your models. Do a crazy cat woman list with cerebus, blessed of December, and raspy. Put individual hoarcats on their bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rascally Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ooh, yes.. mythicFox used one on his Colette - it looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thanks reascally. There's a (not great) photo of it at the bottom of my blog post here. Like everyone else I bought a couple of packs 'cause they look cool, now they're going onto bases like this. I'm thinking of having one or two trying to catch one of my Mechanical Doves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Vening Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think it's too bad they didn't go with a Hoarcat/Hoarcat Pride thing, like the Arachnid/Swarm thing. Allow them to form together, or separate. Give them some flexibility. Morgan Vening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guild Monkee Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The best reason to play them is because they're rubbish. Everyone knows they're not the best, including your opponent, so if you win with them you can make the gloating last for weeks! That is of course only a theory, sadly I've never had them survive past turn 3 because they're so easy to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBarlekamp Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I plan on using them with Hamelin, in my ongoing attempt to find a list that won't $$$$$$$$ off my opponents. Hello Hoarcats and crooligans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalumps Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The Hoarcats suffer from a common affliction: "Arcanist Minion Suck Syndrome." For whatever reason, Arcanist minions tend to be overcosted or under-ruled compared to other faction minions. In the case of the Hoarcats, they're too expensive for how fragile they are. One half decent hit, and they're toothless, unless you manage to nibble your opponent to death and heal them back up to full. I had a game with the Hoarcats where they performed to their absolute peak: my opponent failed Harmless checks left and right (luckiest of the lucky there,) and I managed to get Eat Your Fill twice. For that one game, they were worth their SS cost. However, in the post-Book 2 world where everyone has a speed gimmick or some other shenanigan, something as "vanilla" as the Hoarcat Pride (especially with its fragility) doesn't work very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brdparker Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Use them to help base your models. Do a crazy cat woman list with cerebus, blessed of December, and raspy. Put individual hoarcats on their bases. Ha, I did do that with one of mine when I got my rogue necromancy. The cerberus head (which I put on upside-down for kicks) has the tail-end of a cat sticking out of its mouth (and the front half is at its feet, the poor kitty). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The Hoarcats suffer from a common affliction: "Arcanist Minion Suck Syndrome." For whatever reason, Arcanist minions tend to be overcosted or under-ruled compared to other faction minions. AMSS, I'm so using that. The best example of AMSS is the Large SPA, it has two abilities (Spare Parts and Cut Away) that do nothing practical at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastDinosaur Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I like how noone is even trying to defend the Hoarcats as being any sort of useful, usually when discussions about subpar minions come up there's some that claim for them to be awesome ~_~ AMSS, I'm so using that. The best example of AMSS is the Large SPA, it has two abilities (Spare Parts and Cut Away) that do nothing practical at all. LSPA is golden with Ramos though, due to its high Scrap per SS ratio - that's reason enough to take two of them - also they can be remade by aRamos' Hasty Assembly. Every Ramos player should be thankful to whoever sculpted it so big as it was set to be put on a 40mm base initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalumps Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 AMSS, I'm so using that. The best example of AMSS is the Large SPA, it has two abilities (Spare Parts and Cut Away) that do nothing practical at all. Aside: My buddy (who plays Ramos) is absolutely mystified by the Large SPA, because of how wildly the fluff blurb differs from the actual rules. The saddest part is, for how much chaff the LSPA has on it, it's still one of the better Arcanist minions, by virtue of it's company. Sure, it has extra goofy rules, but at least it has a decent melee attack, Melee Expert, and a little Armor. However, to leave no wound unsalted, it suffers from another (less acronym) friendly syndrome: almost everything in Book 2 that is good for Arcanists is part of the M&SU Asset Special Force. That wasn't a big deal in the context of Book 2, but as early as Book 3 we're already seeing conflict: if you want that nice, shiny Arcane Effigy, you have to give up all those swanky M&SU models you love so much. Depending on how many more Special Forces Wyrd plans to add, this problem could get worse. Though it could also become less problematic if those Special Forces present better options for each of the Arcanist masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 LSPA for scrap every time, 3x counters for 5ss is pretty useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 LSPA for scrap every time, 3x counters for 5ss is pretty useful Especially with Lazbot running around. Oh, so many tricks. Why, yes, I would like a third soulstone user in my crew. Thank you very much. I think it's too bad they didn't go with a Hoarcat/Hoarcat Pride thing, like the Arachnid/Swarm thing. Allow them to form together, or separate. Give them some flexibility. Morgan Vening That's something I'd love to see. Go from insignificant to significant, back and forth, and other Arachnid Swarm kinda tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brdparker Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Here's a fun model idea to help the cause: Game Master: Cost - 2 SS's per undervalued model that you have hired Grant Value: All Hoarcat Prides, LSPA's, Bishops, Molemen, [inset maybe 5 more models here that I can't think of off the top of my head] gain the undervalued characteristic. Put Forth Value - This model may make melee strikes anywhere within 1" of a friendly model with the undervalued characteristic. Spells (1) Inflict Value [CC: 15:tomes, Rst: -, Rg: 6"] - Grant one of the following benefits on target Undervalued model. If cast on the same model multiple times in a round, different effects stack: - +3 Wk/+3 Cg - Brutal and Critical Strike triggers for melee strikes - +1" Rg on melee and ranged weapons and push target model up to 3" (1) Mass Inflict Value [CC: 17:tomes:masks, Rst: -, Rg 6":aura] - Until the end closing phase, all friendly undervalued models gain one of the following benefits. If cast multiple times in a round, different effects stack: - +1Wk/+2 Cg - +1 Dg on melee attacks - Change this spell's aura to a pulse. Push all legal targets within the pulse up to 6" in any direction. - Terrifying -> 9. Discard any number of cards to give Terrifying +1 to each of these targets. I tend to have fun making these units. The above is largely for fun, but distilled, I think that's what they need to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Now that's just silly. Make it the master / henchman of an AMSS crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephir Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I cant help defend the poor kitties (who I would love to field more) But seriously how can you knock the LSPA, that thing is good for any faction. 5 stones, melee expert, decent damage, Armor, pretty high wds for its point, and leaves Ramos 3 scrap! thats a steal, so what cut away doesn't do anything, a lot of models have niche abilities that wont see much play, better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm not saying the LSPA is useless. I love them for Ramos, I just can't help but feel that it's short on abilities. It does also have two of the most conspicuously useless abilities in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasin666 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 hey the cats can devour hamelins rats that makes them useful lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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