wrabbit37 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 I don't have the book in hand. I don't have much more than this page. But I figured you might be curious as to what I had: Her cast goes up by 1, her defense drops by 2. She loses the sword but has paired claws (2/4/5) and a ranged attack called Thorny Vines. She has armor, keeps Black Blood, and gets blood when stuff near her and in forests gets killed. She's still got Drain Blood too, and Blood From Stone. She can make claw attacks at people near the forest she's in, and she can make Thorny Vines attacks at people near any forest. All friendly non-Unique Nephilim get Wicked. She keeps Fast, Master of Malifaux, Rush of Magic and Wicked herself. She can ditch a blood counter to, as a (1) action, attack everyone in a forest with her and move herself. She can also engage in a WP duel with someone in a forest near her to cause damage to them and stop them from moving. Her claws have the same trigger as her sword before. The thorns have a trigger that pushes the model towards her. She loses Invisibility, but has a different trigger that she auto-succeeds in that if she's missed in melee, she pushes 3" ignoring terrain. She has Earthquake still, and three other spells. One makes a forest bigger by ditching blood. One is similar to Translocation except it requires the targets to be in forests, and the last is a (2) action that costs a blood token that forces every enemy in or near a forest to succeed in a high DF check or take wounds, and if they die, she gets blood. Manifest requirements: 10 wounds to enemy models in base contact with woods. Cast Illusionary Forest twice in two different turns. When she manifests, in addition to everything everyone else does, she drops three 3" forest templates around the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmikehill Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 oh..my...god. That's really cool. I can't really make a constructive comment on this... this is just awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneGrey Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Sounds like we're going to be seeing more Waldgeists showing up with Lilith now. The possibility of a large piece of forest terrain becoming horrific death on the field for enemy models inside of it is a nice one. The nature of Malifaux itself coming alive to kill the enemy is a nice image for Avatar Lilith. Especially when you think you can play it safe and keep away from them, only to have the foliage come to you instead. Sweetness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 In book 1 I wasn't at all interested in Lilith. She just seemed like a one-dimentional beatstick and I was after something more than just that. With Book 2 and the release of the new Nephilim my interest in her picked up considerably. Nekima was too costly for my tastes (that, and the model scares me) but the Black blood Shaman in particular was pretty cool for all the support and blood-related tricks he could pull off. ALilith however.... she's definitely one of the Avatars I'm most excited about, and I'm really looking forward to buying her and causing all kinds of Waldgeist-powered, forest-related madness on the table. :smugpuppet1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osoi Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 In book 1 I wasn't at all interested in Lilith. She just seemed like a one-dimentional beatstick and I was after something more than just that. With Book 2 and the release of the new Nephilim my interest in her picked up considerably. Nekima was too costly for my tastes (that, and the model scares me) but the Black blood Shaman in particular was pretty cool for all the support and blood-related tricks he could pull off. ALilith however.... she's definitely one of the Avatars I'm most excited about, and I'm really looking forward to buying her and causing all kinds of Waldgeist-powered, forest-related madness on the table. :smugpuppet1 I'm in exactly the same boat as you Rath, and heres me trying to avoid getting any Neverborn :confusedpuppet1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Osoi, noooo don't fall into the....dark....er....side...? Think about Molly! Molly! Molly! Molly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osoi Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Osoi, noooo don't fall into the....dark....er....side...? Think about Molly! Molly! Molly! Molly! Molly is a dear girl indeed I could never forget her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Bah bah bah..... I'm sorry I didn't caught all that. There is too much noise coming from my bag in the corner. My Waldgeist won't stop screaming for joy. I already put a waldgeist in all most all my Lilith lists, but now I think I might finally paint the second one. Seriously this info just made my day. Also I didn't know Avatars would Manifest in game instead of being purchased at the beginning. Of course now none of my opponents will allow me to place any forest terrain with her.:puppetsad2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblyn13 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 you do both, you pay 2 Soulstones to attach the avatar during the hiring process as well as having to pull off the manifestation requirements in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucket_boy101 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Makes me glad I put myself down for Lilith in the World League. @Rathnard, I agree completely, mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 So she's a suped-up, super-sexy waldgeist..........can I hire her with Marcus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 So she's a suped-up, super-sexy waldgeist..........can I hire her with Marcus? I'll never agree to that!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucklemonkey Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Wish I hadn't given away my second waldgeist now. I like the way she sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 I feel like im being a jerkoff on nearly everything book 3 related. but am I the only person who is curious about the decisions here? The terraclips products, created specifically by wyrd, with at least some thought of malifaux in mind, involved sewers, streets, and buildings. No forests. Most boards I've played on have a forest, maybe in a generous board two or three moderate ones. I dont get why Lilith's is all about forests now. She could create an illusionary forest, thats the only link. The nephelim never seemed like fairies or pixies, I always saw them as more demonic. she's the mother of monsters, not the mother of trees. Other then the somewhat odd change in direction to being a dryad, Her "avatar up" requirements are a bit of a concern to me. I imagine I will need to read the book and see all of the avatars, but Sonnia needs to cast inferno twice and do 10 damage with spells. Lilith needs to cast illusionary forest twice (which, assuming you want to use avatar form, is kind of a must every turn anyhow), and do 10 damage to models standing next to woods? Let me guess, Rasputina needs to cast ice pillars twice and do 10 damage to a models through an ice mirror. which one of those does not belong. I love the sculpt, and im not opposed to dryad lilith. I just dont get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Thats my concern, and has been, with the avatars since the rumors/speculations of how they come in the game began. Now that we know that Masters have 2 requirements to manifest their avatar, is this going to be fair? For X master, will it be that much better (rules wise)/easier to obtain, than Y master? Sonnia's seems really easy for her, considering she is meant to kill stuff with fire anyway. I hope that her cast "Inferno" twice means you need to do damage to enemy models with those two casts. Lilith's seems a bit out of the ordinary, but when you consider you can cast "Illusionary Forest", sling people in with "Transposition" and kill them in the forest, I guess it's not that bad. She ignores the penalty for movement, being Master of Malifaux and all. It does seem like Lilith will be going out of her normal plan to do this, where as Sonnia it does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucklemonkey Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 I actually agree with many of your previously raised points dolomyde. I don't think wyrd have handled this gencon at all well. With regards Lilith though I would have to disagree, it was the only aspect they could play on without taking her into Nekima territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) I feel like im being a jerkoff on nearly everything book 3 related. but am I the only person who is curious about the decisions here? The terraclips products, created specifically by wyrd, with at least some thought of malifaux in mind, involved sewers, streets, and buildings. No forests. Most boards I've played on have a forest, maybe in a generous board two or three moderate ones. Actually a year and half ago and back almost everybody played on the forested/swampy boards. These terrains are easy to get for everyone playing any sort of fantasy battle and even 40K players have lots of re-usable plants. I'm pretty sure the first Terraclips sets were designed to fill in the gap - to provide a city and an underground environment people cannot easily get. Remember that originally they were to be released with Book 2, which introduced indoors battles. Book 1 had none of those. I dont get why Lilith's is all about forests now. She could create an illusionary forest, thats the only link. The nephelim never seemed like fairies or pixies, I always saw them as more demonic. she's the mother of monsters, not the mother of trees. I think that's just your perception. Lilith is first and foremost a Master of Malifaux. Her unique ability is walking through forest and terrain and attacking through it without LoS. That ability has been cuddled for the longest time and restored only sometimes after Book 2, but that doesn't make her an "urban" Neverborn. Infiltration of human settlements is Pandora's speciality in the fluff. Waldgeist too, were originally linked to Malifaux wilderness and they are paired primarily with Lilith and Marcus. In Book 2 you have very little about Nephilim, but notice the area and circumstances in which Nekima (allegedly) appears - it's again a wilderness. I can only speculate at how other players perceive Lilith. Myself, just like you, I hadn't thought about fae when picking her up, but as soon as I posted my 1st crew I received a comment comparing her to fae. I've paid a bit more attention to that afterwards and indeed, many many players see her as a leader of a fae side of the Neverborn. Personally I hope anything more fae-ish than her doesn't make it to Malifaux. And a Dryad or a Nymph is not exactly a fae, is it? Either way, it isn't much of a change of direction, I'm afraid. Other then the somewhat odd change in direction to being a dryad, Her "avatar up" requirements are a bit of a concern to me. I imagine I will need to read the book and see all of the avatars, but Sonnia needs to cast inferno twice and do 10 damage with spells. Lilith needs to cast illusionary forest twice (which, assuming you want to use avatar form, is kind of a must every turn anyhow), and do 10 damage to models standing next to woods? Let me guess, Rasputina needs to cast ice pillars twice and do 10 damage to a models through an ice mirror. which one of those does not belong. I love the sculpt, and im not opposed to dryad lilith. I just dont get it. May be related to the playstyle, but my Lilith fights a lot in the woods. Most of my terrain is definitely countryside-ish and there's always at least one GW forest going on. I almost never go without a Waldgeist and a forest is the best cover Lilith can get, as she moves through it and charges from it without any restrictions (not to mention, Waldgeist can move the forest where she wants it most). Illusionary forest is a wood too and I use it a lot to stop my opponents from getting away. Obviously the spell provides a decent LoS block against ranged crews, but it also is a solid piece of severe terrain that can be placed anywhere several times per turn, snaring two or more different models before they activate. Droping it on Lilith herself, when she's engaged in melee, can shield her from charges and makes it harder to reach her. I don't see myself having problem with "fight near forests" part. I see it as quite fluffy that she can become her dryad-like avatar only when she fights in the way true to her nature (whatever that may be). I do agree this may have odd effect on the balance, especially if Terraclips popularity swings the game towards urban and underground Encounters. Shouldn't be much of a problem with properly random encounters though. Edited August 5, 2011 by Q'iq'el Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 I'll never agree to that!!! lmao! Come on, how bad could it be? With regards Lilith though I would have to disagree, it was the only aspect they could play on without taking her into Nekima territory. I don't mind her direction, she is Master of Malifaux - she has the terrain-type abilities. She becomes more in tune with her world, I can see it. I'm also concerned about whether the manifest requirements will be balanced, but I'm optimistic and will wait until I can read and absorb the rules before I judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osoi Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 I am going to step in and play a little bit of Devils Advocate here. Lilith's requirements seem fine, she doesnt HAVE to cause 10Dg as there is the countdown clock so she can still manifest from the 2 casts of Illusionary Forest, just later in the game. Wyrd have said that the Avatars are giving us more options rather than an Avatar being an auto include, I know there may be some games where I DONT want the option for Seamus to go all Mt Hyde on me, but there will be others where the altered form will be just what I want. Yes Sonnia may only have to inflict 10Wd (big difference) on enemy models with spells but she also has to cast inferno twice, thats an important (0) action that you're not usually using early in the game, so there is a trade off present in all the manifestation requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 BTW, the fluffy link between Lilith and Waldgeist was only suggested before, not wit seems very clear. Don't her Avatar's abilities sound like a Waldgeist on steroids? I suppose Lilith+Waldgeist crew will come back to fashion. I'm a bit sad about it, actually, as I kept playing her with Waldgeist and felt a bit unique about that these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneGrey Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 We also need to see what Lilith's Manifestation clock looks like as well. It could be that she's able to manifest faster than Sonnia can, once she's hit a requirement, or she may even be able to do it without a requirement late in the game. Remember, they'd not put the 0 requirement in if they didn't plan to use it - I expect that it will actually be Pandora of all our casters who has a 0 requirement automatic manifestation... and may actually want to burn soul stones to put off an auto-manifest if she's not in a good position for it. So lets learn more. Really looking forward to Twisting Fates coming in next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 aLilith is all about forests now, and true she may be playing on a board without forests initially. Keep in mind, though, that when she manifests, she should have four forests out there. One for the Illusionary Forest she cast as regular Lilith, and three more for the ones she got as she manifested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 We also need to see what Lilith's Manifestation clock looks like as well. Manifest clocks are all the same. It's the requirements that are different. And attaching avatars to your list costs two soulstones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreyMalifaux Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 As a Lilith player, and her box set being the first I purchased, I'm actually quite excited about her avatar. I don't see why people would be up in arms about her being forest-centric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 Wait, there are players that don't see a connection with Lilith and forests? Really? I am surprised becuase I always felt Lilith and forests went hand and hand. And Waldgeists were always paired with Lilith in my mind ever since I read Book one. But I guess everyone sees what their interests lie in. If you are not about monsters running around in the forests using ambush attack styles to cut up their opponent you might miss the connection. As far as her requirements go I am fine with it. My only issue is I tend to play Lilith a little more reserved than most and use her as a support master till turn three when I have split my opponents crew and can go in for some good kills.(I see leading in with Lilith as a good way to get her killed by turn two if your opponent alphas on her, which they should if they get the chance.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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