Showgirl Tactica

[redphantasm]

MrNybbles - The way I read it is that both Instincutal and Subconscious Actions count as specific AP. ie they grant action points that can only be used on specific things.

As far as a Duet using (0) actions goes, my reading of it is that the Duet would get it's full complement of (0) actions, but could not use any that one of the two Coryphee had used.

[tadaka]

I am curious what do you use your performers for. I often find they get left behind the rest of the crew and don't ever seam to do much but die for Colette. Am I missing some thing? Often the same thing with the mannequin. It links to some thing but being as they don't move with push it seams like every game link gets broken and they become useless .

[Uncle]

I am curious what do you use your performers for. I often find they get left behind the rest of the crew and don't ever seam to do much but die for Colette. Am I missing some thing? Often the same thing with the mannequin. It links to some thing but being as they don't move with push it seams like every game link gets broken and they become useless .

I used to feel the same way (and sometimes I still do). However, here's what all you can do with the Performer and Mannequin...

The Mannequin's Companion allows you to chain-activate pretty much your entire force if they're in range, letting you alpha strike. Aside from that, it's basically mobile terrain for blocking charges and the like.

The Performer gives out Slow, which is very nice, and with some intelligent positioning can Paralyze your opponent. Aside from that, she (and the Mannequin!) exist as a point where Colette can warp in and start Magician's Dueling things to death.

To be honest, if you're finding the Performer useless, it's likely that you're doing a little too well with Cassie and the Duet.

[tadaka]

Eh perhaps I am missing some thing. How does the ability for a mannequin to compainion make for an alpha strike?

I guess you could compainion mutiple mannequin to another showgirl but I just dont see that as being all great.

Teach me

Your right about me doing 2 well with other models the rest of the crew has been kicking butt for me. I just dont see how the showgirls themselves are usefull. I take one set each game but like I said they just get stranded on there own.

[Uncle]

Eh perhaps I am missing some thing. How does the ability for a mannequin to compainion make for an alpha strike?

I guess you could compainion mutiple mannequin to another showgirl but I just dont see that as being all great.

Teach me

Your right about me doing 2 well with other models the rest of the crew has been kicking butt for me. I just dont see how the showgirls themselves are usefull. I take one set each game but like I said they just get stranded on there own.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16719

There's the thread I made about them in November of last year. Like you, I was underwhelmed at the time. Nowadays... Well, I still wouldn't take two Performers, but they're worth the points.

[MrNybbles]

MrNybbles - The way I read it is that both Instincutal and Subconscious Actions count as specific AP. ie they grant action points that can only be used on specific things.

As far as a Duet using (0) actions goes, my reading of it is that the Duet would get it's full complement of (0) actions, but could not use any that one of the two Coryphee had used.

To me this seems to be the most logical answer. However, I have already come across the argument "Zero-actions are not AP" so I kinda need either something in the rulebook or a ruling to refer to. I'm not in any way an authority on the rules and can very well be wrong.

TODO:

Add to Tactica an explanation on why instant-kill effects (such as Headshot and Decapitate triggers) will still kill Colette, even if she does a healing flip. Long story short: model is killed is not the same as 0 Wounds. Also, I need to double-check the rules on this.

@tadaka: The Performers are debuffers so only take them if you want to debuff your enemies. If your opponent's models have immunities to Wp duels or high Wp then they are probably not the best choices to take.

The Mannequins are great for any situation you need to Alpha Strike with the Showgirls and kill something, though you probably would want to link it to Coryphee Duet or Colette to make sure it can keep up. The new Malifaux: Rules Manual explains how you can activate all your models.

Malifaux: Rules Manual, p115 "Quick Reference"

Companion(Model or Characteristic)

Before activating a model with Companion, nominate any number of the referenced model(s) or model(s) with the corresponding Characteristic within 6" of one another. These models activate simultaneously. Choose one of the nominated models to activate first, and complete its entire activation. Then the Controller chooses and activates another nominated model. Continue activating the nominated models until all nominated models have completed their activations.

Notice it says "within 6" of one another" and not within 6" of a specific model. I can only assume that means if all your Showgirls are within 6" of another one of your Showgirls then you can activate all of them.

Another use for the Mannequin is using Colette's Illusionist to get in and out of a dangerous location and swap with a Mannequin. Your opponents will usually rather beat up a model that isn't expendable, but will often go after the Mannequin anyway.

Edited March 15, 2011 by MrNybbles

[Sholto]

@tadaka - I take the Performers and Mannequins for the movement. Try this. Deploy Collette centrally, and have one Performer head to the left flank and another to the right. Keep them within 18". Have one Mannequin link to Collette and another to either Cassandra or the Duet. Cassandra and the Duet take up forward positions, again within 18" of Collette and both Performers. Put one Mechanical Dove near the Duet and any others near the Performers, out of LoS.

Now, using Illusionist (and see the Tactica for how Bashing Collette improves this) Collette has an enormous range of movement, and with various tricks she can fling her models around in dizzying fashion. You also have a network of Doves for the Duet to use as Soulstones if it has yet to Activate. This way Collette can easily overload a flank and take out an enemy that is splitting up.

[MrNybbles]

Quoted from another thread.

just an fyi its clearly defined in the new rulebook now. Page 53. Discarding a soulstone is an additional requirement so you must discard one before the Resist flip. Kind of sucks for Colette but it's a good thing to have this streamlined

Yeah, this is something a lot of people are going to overlook.

TODO: Make sure there is a reminder about this in the new Showgirls Tactica.

[LoboStele]

Quoted from another thread.

Yeah, this is something a lot of people are going to overlook.

TODO: Make sure there is a reminder about this in the new Showgirls Tactica.

Wha??? Crap. Will have to look that up. I already have enough trouble hanging onto SS.

[Absolution Black]

Wha??? Crap. Will have to look that up. I already have enough trouble hanging onto SS.

tell me about it!

I have to say that as a fledgling colette-ster this thread is proving invaluable.

There is always something new I discover everytime I look in it, rather like Mary poppins' bag.

[goldenjester]

One thing I love about the showgirls is how darned good they are with the movement-heavy objectives. My girlfriend started playing the same time as me, choosing Collette namely for aesthetics, but she understood the tactics behind it instantly. In her first game, She flipped destroy the evidence. With some clever Cassandra usage and Coryphee Duet skills, she destroyed ALL the evidence by turn two, completed an announced sabotage, and put Hans out of work. Cassandra put so much pressure on Hans that he couldn't do anything, really, and slowly, over time, via hit-and-run, she kept Ramos' swarms from ever growing. Collette is brilliant as a Master. Countering her requires a great deal of foresight, I've noticed, but from my understanding, so does playing her. In all my games against Collette, I've felt like the game was being played a turn ahead of what was going on. Great fun.

Also, out of curiosity, has anyone tried pairing the girls with the Convict Gunslinger? I've seen it mentioned in earlier posts I think, but I was wondering if anyone still did that.

[i_was_like_you]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but the Ronin factory idea doesn't quite work the way some people are describing it. Yes, you can hire one Ronin for 6ss, and maybe get a discount using her ability to hire a second one, but you cannot summon a third one because of the two mercenary from out of faction limit.

It's the same as not being able to grow a third Mature Nephilim, or to be able to have a third Viktoria on the table after summoning one to replace a buried one and later having the original one unburied.

However, if one wanted to keep sending Ronin after Ronin out on kamikaze runs, then that could work, although probably not as well as just using Doves to spam Magician's Duel or to explode near enemies or to do any of the other aforementioned tricks that they're so good for.

[Sholto]

Also, out of curiosity, has anyone tried pairing the girls with the Convict Gunslinger? I've seen it mentioned in earlier posts I think, but I was wondering if anyone still did that.

I would love to try it, but I find that Showgirls are just so effective in a Colette crew that taking non-Showgirls really has an impact. If I flipped a defensive Strategy, however, I might consider taking him (or the Gunsmith).

[MrNybbles]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but the Ronin factory idea doesn't quite work the way some people are describing it. Yes, you can hire one Ronin for 6ss, and maybe get a discount using her ability to hire a second one, but you cannot summon a third one because of the two mercenary from out of faction limit.

This needs to be double-checked in case they stated things differently elsewhere, but in the new Rules Manual it looks like the Mercenary limit is a hiring limit, not a per-crew limit. The same with the Rare limit. This is something that really needs to go into a new official FAQ.

Rules Manual (Encounters, p.71)

6. Hire Crews

. . .

The following restrictions apply when hiring Crews:

General

. . .

* A maximum of the indicated number of a Rare model may be hired by a Crew in a Scrap. Twice that number may be hired by a Crew in a Brawl.

. . .

Mercenaries

* A crew may include up to two models with the Mercenary characteristic from any other Factions. Mercenaries from the player's chosen Faction do not count toward this total.

. . .

1) It says Rare# and Mercenary rules apply when hiring Crews. It does not say they apply elsewhere (unless I missed something written somewhere else in the Rules Manual which is possible because I'm writing this at narly 5am. If I did then please post where it is written in the Rules Manual).

2) The Ronin's Always for Hire ability doesn't give a discount, it is a flat summoning cost of 5. There are no maybes about this.

3) The rules for Summoned models on p.55 does not specify any limits for Rare # or Mercenary models.

4) Rare # and Mercenary are both characteristics and not listed in the new Rules Manual as having any special rules. However, they don't need their own special rules because they are referenced in the Rules Manual rules for hiring crews.

5) Rare now explicitly says it is a Maximum for hiring your crew (which is doubled in Brawls). This is a change from the original rulebook which use to limit how many Rare models could be in play at once.

However, if one wanted to keep sending Ronin after Ronin out on kamikaze runs, then that could work, although probably not as well as just using Doves to spam Magician's Duel or to explode near enemies or to do any of the other aforementioned tricks that they're so good for.

5 Soulstones out of your Soulstone Pool is a lot, and Colette can only create a maximum of 2 Soulstones in a single turn. In general I don't really recommend using her as a Ronin Factory, but if you are against a master like Ramos and want to summon armor ignoring melee models that get a on damage flips next to someone like Ramos, you can do this and it can work very well.

However, in a Scrap if you are creating 2 Soulstones each turn then you effectively have 2 Control Cards to use for offence and defense each turn. To use The Showgirls well means being able to manage your Soulstones well, but your Control Hand is also an important resource that you need to manage, and when your opponent uses abilities to have you discard cards you can also use Soulstone Manipulation to gain more Control Cards if you really need them.

In a Scrap if you start with 8 Soulstones (which is the maximum you may start with) and create 2 more Soulstones with Colette, you can then, in theory, summon 2 more Ronin which leaves you with ZERO Soulstones in your crew's pool. For a Showgirls crew this is normally a very bad thing.

One other thing that has changed is that Disengaging strikes no longer cause the attacker or defender to activate Triggers (Combat, p.48). This means that if a disengaging strike is made against Colette she can no longer trigger A Blinding Flash.

[Q'iq'el]

Page 9 clarifies that rules for Rare and Unique apply both to hiring and in-play.

As far as Mercenaries go, I'd read "include" as wider term than "hire", covering both the hiring stage and in-play.

[MrNybbles]

Page 9 clarifies that rules for Rare and Unique apply both to hiring and in-play.

Ah, they would put information about Characteristics somewhere unrelated like under Soulstone Cost on page 9. I want to play the game, not go on a preverbal Easter Egg hunt.

As far as Mercenaries go' date=' I'd read "include" as wider term than "hire", covering both the hiring stage and in-play.[/quote']

That could be, but I think they used the word include rather than hire because you no longer hire masters, you choose them. This would mean that in a brawl choosing Victoria as a second master would take up a Mercenary slot.

[Q'iq'el]

Ah, they would put information about Characteristics somewhere unrelated like under Soulstone Cost on page 9. I want to play the game, not go on a preverbal Easter Egg hunt.

Well, it's not entirely unrelated. That page was the first place I checked when I saw your argument. Page 9 is where all the informations on the character's card are explained, so obviously the basic info for Rare and Unique, as well as model types, should be there.

Actually the hiring rules on the p. 71 are referenced from there, which kind of makes page 9 the start point for this.

Though I agree the subsection could've been chosen better than "Soulstone Cost".

That could be, but I think they used the word include rather than hire because you no longer hire masters, you choose them. This would mean that in a brawl choosing Victoria as a second master would take up a Mercenary slot.

Well, they use "hire" in the section about Rare and Unique restrictions, but I suppose you may be right about master-related choice of words here.

[Tuesday]

So, I played against C. Hoffman today and took Joss and Johan instead of two Performers (for a 35ss match).

And Joss is awesome. The strategy was Distract, so he and Johan were able to keep Hoffman's train of destruction at bay for long enough to let Colette get into the other deployment zone. Granted, they both died, but if it hadn't been for the constant machine-repairing that went on, they probably 'killed' the Guardian and C. at least twice. Nice for holding that group of monsters in one place while the girls zip around and get stuff done.

[tadaka]

I have not had any luck with joss glad some one else does. Every time I have played him he is dead long before he can do any thing.

[NeverEnding]

How have you guys been doing against ressurectionist masters? The other day I had a preformer hold up 2 punk zombies and a flesh construct for a good three turns. The only thing that makes me sad is the lack of damage. In a game I played today against nicodem at 35 ss. Last game I took corphee duet with the starter box for 35 ss exactly. This time I dropped cassandra and went with 3 doves. Killing power was lacking a bit minus corphees but SS dominated. Question is, at 25 ss would you run corphee duet? And how do you keep from overextending yourselves?

[MrNybbles]

Joss is a powerful model, though he will be a priority for your opponent to kill. For anyone who has trouble keeping the Performers alive Joss will also be a challenge and a bigger target. I know there is a Ramos Tactica thread around here somewhere which I need to read, even if it is just a thread of different people posting information and not a concise single post. I now have an assembled and based Joss model to use, but haven't used it myself.

From my current understanding Joss should basically stay behind cover as much as you can until you can get in close and use the Power Counters to deal extra punishment. High :tomes cards help with this because you can inflict extra damage via the Brutal trigger. He's a slightly complicated damage dealer with the need to keep track of Power counters and use his Brutal trigger, but he is capable of dealing more damage than the Steamborg Executioner.

As long as we are on the subject of non-showgirl models a couple of people have recommended the use of Moleman models in Arcanist crews. They are the cheapest non-insignificant model your crews can take. Hopefully someone already has information on how to use them well that I can link to. Basically, I think the Moleman models are the key to winning Reconnoiter.

How have you guys been doing against ressurectionist masters? The other day I had a preformer hold up 2 punk zombies and a flesh construct for a good three turns. The only thing that makes me sad is the lack of damage. In a game I played today against nicodem at 35 ss. Last game I took corphee duet with the starter box for 35 ss exactly. This time I dropped cassandra and went with 3 doves. Killing power was lacking a bit minus corphees but SS dominated.

With a pure Showgirl crew you will hot have any heavy hitting models so your damage will always be lacking. If you need something dead then you need to swarm it and kill it. Joss and the Steamborg Executioner are good heavy hitting models if you need them, while the Soulstone Miner is good for popping up wherever you need it, gaining Melee Master, and doing 3 to 4 attacks.

I try really hard to not start with less than 5 Soulstones, but the more the better because in general you need them to hit your opponents high Defense/Resist models with at least a neutral (no or ) damage flip.

Let's look at Cassandra (Cb 7) or Coryphee Duet (Cb 7) v an enemy with Df 5. If you flip an 8+ and use a Soulstone then the chances are you are going to hit the other model. Your opponent could flip a 13 which would mean you would need to flip a 2 or less to miss. (7 Cb + 8 flip + ? Soulstone = 15+) (5 Df + 13 flip = 18). It is possible for your opponent to flip or cheat in the Red Joker, or your additional flip might be the Black Joker, but the odds are against it.

Remember, with Cassandra and the Coryphee Duet you can take a moderate flip of 8+, spend a Soulstone to add to that flip, and most of the time be able to hit minions without stellar Df values. The chances of you flipping a 4 or less and your opponent flipping a 13 are rather low.

As for Resurrectionist Masters, they have some variety, but mostly come down to many cheap and/or replaceable melee models. Basically if you don't outnumber them in Melee, then you're in trouble if you get into melee with them.

[Flesh Construct]

* It is one of the better Resurrectionist models in melee, and some masters can summon this model making it expendable.

* This model has Immune to Influence making it immune to the Performer's debuffs.

* Hard to Wound 2 means your Damage Flips probably will be Weak and uncheatable for obvious reasons.

Basically you gotta swarm this model and hit it with lots of attacks, like 5 attacks with Weak damage of 2.

You could also have Colette cast Disappearing Act and try to trigger Mannequin Replacement. Good luck, but make sure you plan things out just in case Mannequin Replacement doesn't trigger.

Question is, at 25 ss would you run corphee duet? And how do you keep from overextending yourselves?

Depends. I once ran Coryphee Duet in a 15ss game and tied. In general they are a hefty investment, but in a small game where you want to avoid combat and just get to the objectives they can work very well and survive almost anything except an enemy master.

[NeverEnding]

Yeah ive been playing for a while now and own a rasputina crew plus cerberus as well as the viks (johan is m&su) reason im asking is because this saturday im heading down to a tournament with my 2 arcanist masters. I got colette not long ago but have played her at least once a day since she arrived so i am fairly confident. The only thing holding me back from using johan at least once is his lack of mobility. So far im leaning more towards the cerberus for more punch but would much rather keep the duet but thats alot of points.

[MrNybbles]

Johan's strengths are that his weapon is magical and it ignores armor. This is great against some masters like Kirai who have spirits that he mostly kill in one hit, and Ramos who has a heavily armored crew.

I believe that under the new rules if you use the Knock Aside trigger while in base to base contact the enemy model would still be just within range for a second attack.

There is a costly way around his lack of mobility. You can have Colette cast Disappearing Act on him to bury him. By the end of the turn you just need to have Colette sitting within 6" of wherever you want him.

I need to check the rules for indoor locations to make sure you can place him on the other side of a wall.

[LoboStele]

I believe that under the new rules if you use the Knock Aside trigger while in base to base contact the enemy model would still be just within range for a second attack.

Yeah, this was clarified somewhere, but if the enemy is in base-to-base contact to start with, then they would end up exactly 3" away at the end of the push, and still within range for another strike. BTW, Johan's trigger is Knockback (Steamborg is Knock Aside), just to be clear.

I need to check the rules for indoor locations to make sure you can place him on the other side of a wall.

As far as I know, there's no problem with this. No 'target' word in the placement effect. Would be no different than summoning, which allows you to ignore walls/terrain.

[Blastercrazy]

This post/thread is great! I have not played Colette mostly because I thought her play style was very complicated and I could not figure her out. This Tactica has helped me understand what she can do. However I am having problems deciding what to do in different situations. I guess that will get easier with practice, though I wonder if there is a certian set of actions to use during every turn that a novice such as myself could learn.