shekbo Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 As for Malifaux "good guys" it's an interesting shade of grey all around. Yeah, the neverborn might have a decent cause, but they're nasty little things anyway. The guild might be protecting the people, but they are pretty repressive. By far, though, I think of guild guard, even when led by lucius, as the closest thing to good guys in Malifaux. They're just normal folks trying to protect their friends and family, and if they have to operate under the guild's orders, they will. There are plenty of good guys in odd corners of malifaux though. Von Schill, for example. The Viktorias work with mercenaries but they're not bad guys. Ramos is a classic example, and the dancing girls aren't all that evil. Malifaux kind of reflects a world in a more human sense. Dark, but not all dark. the world is vastly shades of grey, and Malifaux tends to reflect that, even if it is on the darker side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paradox Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 I wasn't specifically saying that they were good, but of the three evils, Perdita is the most noble. Because hunting down and eliminating Resurrectionists is overzealous, ignoble and evil????? :suspiciou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispep Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Because hunting down and eliminating Resurrectionists is overzealous, ignoble and evil????? :suspiciou If you are a Resser, yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Actually I'm gonna stick up for LCB here. People seem pretty happy to consider him a cruel, vicious monster, but if you were an entity that lives off of the fears of small children, what else are you going to do? Besides, he's more than happy to protect the dreamer, which is alot nicer than what every other Master gets up to. And Kirai? That girl just won't let go of a grudge, won't she? Maybe she's not pure evil, but she's definitely the craziest, most bitter B***h in Malifaux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werecat Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Wouldn't you be bitter if your first, most significant love was gunned down right before your eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenz Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 I always pictured the Arcanists like Zorro all rich nobles on the surface with a secret hidden side that is out for the people this makes the guild the army that is always hunting Zorro (AKA the Arcanists) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Wouldn't you be bitter if your first, most significant love was gunned down right before your eyes? Sure.. But I fail to see how this justifies the killing spree she subconsciously started. She is in no way a better person than the captain who gunned Francis down (who by no means was a good person, but at least cared a bit for his family). I don't consider Perdita as altruistic either, not at all. It's just that her egocentric nature pales in comparison to Sonnia's. A fanatic and a weak manipulated man doesn't fit the hero role that well either, although I wouldn't consider Hoffman a 'bad guy', not so sure about the Lady - she must have seen her fair bit of corruption and such given her status and done nothing about it. The Arcanists..? C'mon.. Those aren't better than the Guild at all, they're merely a less powerful organization. All their beneficial works are merely a play for propaganda against the Guild and a way to keep their illegal business covert. Really. Neverborn are hard to place, with our ethical framework they're definetly not good guys, but I'm not sure it's right to judge them in this way. The same goes for Hamelin and the Gremlins. Although I usually do consider Hamelin to be the most evil master. Ressurectionists well.. No. Definetly not good guys. There's lovely Molly though . Leveticus, Viktoria and Von Schill.. Works for anyone for own personal gain, again.. Not exactly good guys. The two of them aren't inherently evil either though, I'm not so sure about Leveticus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Wouldn't you be bitter if your first, most significant love was gunned down right before your eyes? Yeah, I'd be somewhat miffed, but I wouldn't be calling on the spirits of the departed to slowly torture to death everyone who had even the slightest link to the whole operation. That's just not cool dude. And in all fairness, the dullard got himself killed - that bullet was meant for Kirai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poulpox Posted October 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 @Wodschow: I think that's a pretty good summary, in fact it shows something: all the characters seem to have given up on being kind with others for the protection of either a loved one/brotherhood (Hoffman, LCB, Arcanists and Neverborn) or mostly protection of self, in a world where security is scarce and danger everywhere. In that regard all the masters have fallen into a dark place I think as they are ready to sacrifice others for their own purpose (as opposed to sacrifice self for others, yet this is debatable too, as if one agrees to go into battle for a cause, one is also agreeing to the possibility of losing their own life for that cause), although as we've seen the purposes might have debatable nobility (Lady J for me for instance stands for the cause of stoping a movement against nature, which is respectable). This reminds me a lot of The Road movie, where each one is fighting for survival; interestingly the movie constantly tries to show how there is a choice possible not to fall into the mass of darkness but stand against it, that even in the darkest time there is a choice of keeping the light inside going. Where Wyrd did well I think is that we can have simpathy for most (all?) of the masters in some respect maybe with the exception of the resers: a lot of people seem to agree that resers are doing something dodgy: somehow our human instinct doesn't allow toying with death, as it touches counter-nature matters, again except for a few. Somehow I can't make myself see McMourning's morbid hobby/curiosity as a very sane one! Out of all the factions it seems the Guild is the most oppressive one amongst its own kind, which is why I feel it is slightly darker than the others. Lady Justice, save us all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniele Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Actually I'm gonna stick up for LCB here. People seem pretty happy to consider him a cruel, vicious monster, but if you were an entity that lives off of the fears of small children, what else are you going to do? Besides, he's more than happy to protect the dreamer, which is alot nicer than what every other Master gets up to. I'd say a creature that feeds on the fears of children can be considered purely evil. Caring for one of its former targets wouldn't make this all up, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Besides, he's more than happy to protect the dreamer, which is alot nicer than what every other Master gets up to. Yeah, but why is he so happy to protect the Dreamer? What's motivating him to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvatarForm Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Cookies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werecat Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Yeah, I'd be somewhat miffed, but I wouldn't be calling on the spirits of the departed to slowly torture to death everyone who had even the slightest link to the whole operation. That's just not cool dude. Sure. But she didn't say "hey, Ikiryo, could you pretty please go torture and murder these dudes? K thx bai." she didn't even know it happened till it was all over. I don't think she can be blamed for how her pain and sadness manifested in the twisted little world we call Malifaux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) Yeah, but why is he so happy to protect the Dreamer? What's motivating him to do that? Because it gives him the ability to manifest himself out into the real world to wreek horrible horrible havoc, and kill, kill, kill? I think his delight in pain ability doesn't seem like it is making him a good candidate for being good. "Oh, I'm killing you, or that Guy is killing you next to me, man I feel like I'm healing alittle." Doesn't seem good to me. I feel Marcus is the most neutral out of all of them. Ya he is making chimeras, but it is not like he is ransacking villages with them. He is just living in the wild with them. You could also argue Hoffman as a true good Guy. He came to malifaux to get help with his polio. When they went through the breach, it damn near killed his brother, And gave him powers to talk to machines. And now all he wants to do is save his brother. Seems like a justifiable thing to do. Edited October 4, 2010 by Iamwyrd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Yeah, but why is he so happy to protect the Dreamer? What's motivating him to do that? It seems to suggest that LCB feeds on the fear of dreamers. I think The Dreamer creates enough fear and nightmares that it's like he's laying on a buffet for LCB every time he appears in Malifaux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 This thread is invaluable! Clearly we didn't fully paint up LCB's motivation. >adds notes to the "get this done" file< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poulpox Posted October 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 This thread is invaluable! Hehehe, I recently started my degree in Social Work and I thought a little bit of applying what I learn to my game would be fun, and it is indeed, I enjoy the reading!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 Yeah, but why is he so happy to protect the Dreamer? What's motivating him to do that? This thread is invaluable! Clearly we didn't fully paint up LCB's motivation. >adds notes to the "get this done" file< No i belive you said that Lord Chompy wants to understand how the dreamers abilty to twist reality and possibly take it for himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 scratches another line through an item on the "to do" list. Yep, Silver C. Thought I was going crazy for a minute there. I'm like, "Jeesh...I really remember writing that...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Issalbotproto Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 I respect the brash evil of the guild because it really is a state of profit over moral (aka it's business) if it was cost effective to have every citizen be happy they'd do it, but it isn't so they wont. But lady J seems the best to bring moral (however cost ineffective) to the guild, Peridta is just kinda in it for the pay check and the glory to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alemon Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 I respect the brash evil of the guild because it really is a state of profit over moral (aka it's business) if it was cost effective to have every citizen be happy they'd do it, but it isn't so they wont. But lady J seems the best to bring moral (however cost ineffective) to the guild, Peridta is just kinda in it for the pay check and the glory to me... She puts the wild west in malifaux to me. : ) pew pew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 (edited) ON terms of motives i see it as Lady J and the Judge Seem to have a personal vendetta aganst the undead, how far she goes with this is unclear, on the scale of good or evil. i would say netural at the moment she might saving people but her motive seem more personal than trying to save people Perdeta and the Ortagas Perdeta, i belive is trying to bring honnor and glory to her family, a Family girl at she would give her all for her family, how she treates those outside her family is unknown so is she is nertural but boarderline good due to her strong family ties C.Hoffman definitely good all he want is to save his brother, how the road to hell is paved in good intentions and hoffman seems easily manipulated so watched this space Sonnia Criid and Samael Hopkins Are verry difficult to label, one Sonnia side she does belive that what she does is for the greater good and the end justifies the means, Zealous and power hungry, but is she the woman Malifaux needs, i personly see her as good more than the others since she wants to avoid injuring baystanders in book 1 and in two she shows guilt for releasing december. Samael not quite zealous or powerhungry but motive wise very much the same lucius Power hungry and ruthless all i can say since not much is told about him, but for now he gets the BIG EVIL stamp Edited October 5, 2010 by Sliver Chocobo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paradox Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 My take on it has always been that each splinter of the Guild is slowly becoming the thing that they hate or hunt. Sonnia is becomig a rouge magic user with her own agendas for Malifaux, Lady Justice (well, more shown through the judge, but she DID just have a house dropped on her....) is becoming a Rezzer (or undead) and the Ortegas are becoming like the Neverborn (at least to the gremlins, as shown by Ophelia). Hoffman is slowly becoming a machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvatarForm Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 ON terms of motives i see it as Lady J and the Judge Seem to have a personal vendetta aganst the undead, how far she goes with this is unclear, on the scale of good or evil. i would say netural at the moment she might saving people but her motive seem more personal than trying to save people Perdeta and the Ortagas Perdeta, i belive is trying to bring honnor and glory to her family, a Family girl at she would give her all for her family, how she treates those outside her family is unknown so is she is nertural but boarderline good due to her strong family ties C.Hoffman definitely good all he want is to save his brother, how the road to hell is paved in good intentions and hoffman seems easily manipulated so watched this space Sonnia Criid and Samael Hopkins Are verry difficult to label, one Sonnia side she does belive that what she does is for the greater good and the end justifies the means, Zealous and power hungry, but is she the woman Malifaux needs, i personly see her as good more than the others since she wants to avoid injuring baystanders in book 1 and in two she shows guilt for releasing december. Samael not quite zealous or powerhungry but motive wise very much the same lucius Power hungry and ruthless all i can say since not much is told about him, but for now he gets the BIG EVIL stamp +1, however, at the end of the day, "It's just good business..." Points if you can name the movie that quote is from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poulpox Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 lucius Power hungry and ruthless all i can say since not much is told about him, but for now he gets the BIG EVIL stamp I'm with you here, knowing he's closer to power than the others is the scary thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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