Would you buy an updated rulebook?

[Justin]

Simple enough question: would you pay for a rulebook which includes all of the errata/FAQ and updates various things? (for example, in some of the examples models have abilities they don't actually have. In the section on slow and fast, in the example Nicodem casts Slow, a spell he doesn't have. In another section lure is made an example of and says that it also adds -2 to the target's defense, which is not actually a part of the spell) It would probably need to be marked as the revised copy, maybe with an "R" on the cover so people know who's book to reference if they are playing with conflicting editions. And it would have to be written in a few months, when all of the errata is totally sorted out and done with.

Would you shell out the money to get a book you already own, only with all the details just right? Or would you make do with your old one and a printed errata/FAQ?

Would you shell out the money for a new book, maybe in a year or two? Once all of the models have been released, maybe a hard cover book with all of the pictures of the new models, the errata, and maybe a painting/modeling section?

I understand there are printing costs involved and none of this may ever happen, but I thought a poll showing what people would be willing to buy might be a good thing.

Thoughts?

[higherbrow]

It's a very new minis game under a brand new company. I assumed from the get go there would be a second edition released sometime in the first two years, if not in the first year. Anyone who didn't probably didn't think about it. I'd probably need to see exactly what the second edition had, but an updated rulebook when the last of the minis came out with all the errata and initial issues cleared up, the language cleaned up a bit (if you don't know what I mean here, see the errata; half of it is just rewording for clarity and elegance), maybe include the fluff from the Wyrd Chronicles or even some original writing, or a nice section on painting. A Page 5 in Malifaux's spirit rather than Warmachine's would be nice too, since a lot of the appeal to this game is the gorgeous minis, the awesome setting, etc.

There's tons of stuff that would make a second edition worth actual money.

[Justin]

It's a very new minis game under a brand new company. I assumed from the get go there would be a second edition released sometime in the first two years, if not in the first year. Anyone who didn't probably didn't think about it. I'd probably need to see exactly what the second edition had, but an updated rulebook when the last of the minis came out with all the errata and initial issues cleared up, the language cleaned up a bit (if you don't know what I mean here, see the errata; half of it is just rewording for clarity and elegance), maybe include the fluff from the Wyrd Chronicles or even some original writing, or a nice section on painting. A Page 5 in Malifaux's spirit rather than Warmachine's would be nice too, since a lot of the appeal to this game is the gorgeous minis, the awesome setting, etc.

There's tons of stuff that would make a second edition worth actual money.

No page 5!

That said, I agree. There was word from Eric there would not be a revised version of the book, which I think is a mistake. But I understand that there are printing costs and economics involved that are above my head.

[skrulnik]

I voted for in a few years. Similar to the time between WM Prime and Remix.

They can include any errata in the expansion book they've mentioned.

From what I've seen on this board, most are former WM players and should find this workable.

I don't want this to get like Uncharted Seas. They are already on their 2nd ed book.

Maybe you are okay with shelling out $40 a year for a rules update. But not even 40k expects players to do that.

I would rather have $40 for another crew.

[Justin]

I voted for in a few years. Similar to the time between WM Prime and Remix.

They can include any errata in the expansion book they've mentioned.

From what I've seen on this board, most are former WM players and should find this workable.

I don't want this to get like Uncharted Seas. They are already on their 2nd ed book.

Maybe you are okay with shelling out $40 a year for a rules update. But not even 40k expects players to do that.

I wouldn't expect it once a year. Really, just once.

Once the errata is in there, there won't be much reason to update.

Sure, there will always be issues that need an errata/FAQ and for that we'll just have to go online. I wouldn't want a new edition every time somebody had a rules question or came up with a broken combo. But the current errata deletes whole paragraphs. The entire movement section was rewritten. That's a one time thing that has to do with the age of the game and the company, and I would be willing to buy a new book for the sake of ease.

And if you don't like it, just keep your old book and print the errata from the site.

[Cenotaph]

Yes, but it would have to be better errata than we currently have as I think they are still not the clearest set of rules. Also the rulebook would have to have better examples with some diagrams to demonstrate situations like just about every other rulebook I have in my collection.

[Major_Gilbear]

I might, but there might well be more errata in the next book, and then you'd be back to square 1.

A better proposal would be to collate ALL the Errata into one document, and stick it in an appendix of the next book along with the FAQ. PP did this with WM, and it seemed like a sensible way to keep all the rules together and up to date without lots of reprinting.

All that said, if there was a reprint, I would like for there to be hardback book options. I find them much more robust and better-lasting than the softbacks (especially when they get old; the noise my copy of Rogue Trader makes when I open it makes me cringe every time - I wish I'd gotten a hardback edition whenever I consult my copy!). In fact, a hard back copy with a few sewn-in ribbon bookmarks would be perfect...

[N0rdicNinja]

I agree with Gilbearfor mostly, I think it would be best for them to release an up-to-date errata in the back of any expansion books they release in the future. This way they don't have to waste money with re-prints while players can still rely purely on printed material.

That being said, in a few years after they've released an expansion or two with accompanying erratas, I would likely re-purchase an updated core rulebook with all the errata changes incorporated. This would make life quite a bit easier as having to look up rules in multiple locations, while necessary and helpful, can get frustrating mid game.

So I choose numero dos Trebek

[Omadon]

To be honest, I would only consider it once they'd released everything they've planned to release from it. I figure a core book some point after then would be an idea, but not before they release the next one. New content > Old. Until then, I'll make do with postit notes

[karn987]

Yeah I have to say I would as long as it does include a ton of changes and really is worth the asking price for it. It would be handy to have it all there in final format just nice and easy for me to read and work through rather then my little errata binder.

That being said, a page 5 malifaux style would be kinda awesome ^^ They already have most of the propaganda in the book, "Cheat fate or lose your soul", that kinda stuff could easily make a great page 5.

[paperbag4]

The problem with not having a fifth page, is that unless you jump from 3 to 6, you'll end up with even numbers facing even numbers. The sudden shift to the even numbers being on the left page would weird me out. Trying to navigate that pagination would be a nightmare. The pages in your book would go 1:2, 3:4, 6:7, 8:9. It would be chaos.

[Major_Gilbear]

The problem with not having a fifth page, is that unless you jump from 3 to 6, you'll end up with even numbers facing even numbers. The sudden shift to the even numbers being on the left page would Wyrd me out. Trying to navigate that pagination would be a nightmare. The pages in your book would go 1:2, 3:4, 6:7, 8:9. It would be chaos.

Fixed that for you

[Calisto]

The problem with not having a fifth page, is that unless you jump from 3 to 6, you'll end up with even numbers facing even numbers. The sudden shift to the even numbers being on the left page would weird me out. Trying to navigate that pagination would be a nightmare. The pages in your book would go 1:2, 3:4, 6:7, 8:9. It would be chaos.

I'm hoping that either you're joking, or don't know what they are talking about.

If it's the latter, in the warmachine rulebooks, they allways print a blurb from the creator that's supposed to let you know the tone of the book, and the game. It's supposed to be a "Show newb this first" page, and allways ends in "Play like you gotta pair." Some find it trite, while others use it as a mantra and holy prayer. Either way, :offtopic:

I'd gladly pay for a second edition.

[Major_Gilbear]

@Calisto:

Yes, it is a joke. In response to Lalo's not wanting a 'Page 5', Paper's joking about physically removing the page numbered 5 from the next book.

Could you really not tell that?

[mechaace]

I'm with the I'd wait a few years crowd. As gilbear said if when we get the new expansion print the up to date errata in that, and then once we've got an expansion or so out when they do a major reprint of the book, just update the contents and stuff to the new things.

As for right now no. I mean I don't think the games been out a year, I think it's a bit early to start talking about new updated rulebooks.

[paperbag4]

I'm glad someone appreciates my overly complicated really bad jokes.

[nightgaunt98c]

I'm not in a rush to buy a new book, as mine is only 3 months old, but I would get it eventually.

[ispep]

I'd gladly pay for a second edition.

If around the time of the expansion, their was an updated Special Edition, that wasn't just an updated version of what we have now (I'm talking leather bound, ancient looking, coffee table quality type deal) I'd certainly be interested. But barring that or some catastrophic event which annihilates my current book, I doubt I'd buy just an errata'd version of what I have.

[Lionheart]

Another company did a really good thing when they put out an updated rulebook: if you brought your old book into your FLGS, they would mark it, and then you would get the new version for a lesser price. It was a great bit of customer relations.

[Justin]

They're going to have subsequent print runs of the rulebook as more players get into the game. The way I see it, there's no reason not to stick the errata in there as well to stop the newer player's confusion before it starts. And the rest of us could choose to update or just print out the errata. Not even a new edition of the book, really just correcting the subsequent run.

[Wombats]

I would certainly buy it...

...but there is no need for it.

[artificer]

I haven't even gotten my copy of the 1st edition rules yet :frusty:.

That said, once everything is actually released (no more proxy models) and run for a while (maybe a year or two) I'd gladly buy a new improved edition, or even better, a 'bumper-fun-double-edition' with the completely revised rule set and the expansion all in one (fingers crossed)

[Apollyon]

I have to ask... and this is a constant question for every gaming company... Why keep printing and selling these books? If the cost of printing and storing, shipping and stocking is so high, just put the pdf of the book out there and let people print it themselves.

Give the rules away. Let people buy the minis and accesories - Wyrd's real product. Unless there are IP issues with letting the core rules go for no charge.

[Nathan Caroland]

And that sir is the first way of going out of business. Good luck with that plan and let me know how it works if you decide to go that route yourself in the future.

There are high costs,and yes it does take up room and storage, but if you don't have a tangible product in which retailers can put on a shelf in order to entice players to pick up your product then there is no reason for them to carry the accessories at all. Retailers have to have a reason to push the product as well, they aren't there just to play games even though they like to themselves. It's a business.

We, along with any other gaming companies print and sell these books for a very obvious capitalistic reason. The book, along with everything else, is Wyrd's real product.

Walk into your FLGS, tell me how many of the products sitting on the shelves are just accessories for a game which can be downloaded for free online. Odds are none, or if so, you've walked into one of a handful of specialized stores due to their owners having taken a special interest (I know of a few across the US, not many).

[Justin]

And that sir is the first way of going out of business. Good luck with that plan and let me know how it works if you decide to go that route yourself in the future.

There are high costs,and yes it does take up room and storage, but if you don't have a tangible product in which retailers can put on a shelf in order to entice players to pick up your product then there is no reason for them to carry the accessories at all. Retailers have to have a reason to push the product as well, they aren't there just to play games even though they like to themselves. It's a business.

We, along with any other gaming companies print and sell these books for a very obvious capitalistic reason. The book, along with everything else, is Wyrd's real product.

Walk into your FLGS, tell me how many of the products sitting on the shelves are just accessories for a game which can be downloaded for free online. Odds are none, or if so, you've walked into one of a handful of specialized stores due to their owners having taken a special interest (I know of a few across the US, not many).

I completely missed this. I only came in here because of the link in the other thread on this topic.

I'm very glad to see the. The game store are the heart and soul of a miniatures game. Things like Magic and various roleplaying books can usually be downloaded/bought online for greatly reduced rates, and that's fine. For them, the internet is the marketplace, they've cut out the middle man. But, mini games take up a large amount of space, require terrain, etc. A gamestore generally provides all these things, enticing people to play and, in turn, pick up the game. D&D and Magic you can play on the kitchen table, but the game store is essential for minis. So, it's good for companies not to piss them off by releasing their products for free/reduced cost online.

Obviously you understand this, Nathan. I was actually pretty glad to read that you stopped having special edition models for large sales through your online store. I just thought I'd voice my support in a long-winded, round-about way. I very much like where Wyrd is going. Two thumbs up.