Tactica: Ramos

[Angus Khan]

So I have put together a 25 ss list including Ramos, Joss, Alyce, and a brass spider. Before I do it (gonna try either way), can it work? Opinions please?

It would be possible to pull off, however I'm not exactly sure how good it would be... Crews composed primarily of high cost models are almost always outnumbered, however each model hits pretty hard. (Typical for "elite" armies) Play very carefully and you can get this crew to work, however if you make a mistake you could really be punished for it.

[Parius]

A few thoughts on Ramos...

The list that I've been playing with uses 8 models, and usually nets between 9 and 14(ish) activations per turn. Everyone can agree that with his low DF, and wk speed Ramos simply can not be an effective front/center brute force. Everything you've read so far in this thread about Ramos being a support master is almost completely true... I think he makes a much better reactive support master.

My list is Ramos, a Brass Arachnid (team mvp by far), 1 swarm, and 5 single spiders. This nets 4 extra soulstones, for a total of 6. (30ss)

typical strats...

For starters, I like to give my opponent targets. It usually works out much better then letting them choose for themselves. I like to use the large number of actions to limit the amount of interaction my opponent has for the first few turns, allowing me to control how the turn goes once my opponent is out of activations. I like to open with Ramos, using Scavenge under fire to attempt a spider, as well as going for a creation on the first turn (netting and extra activation or 2). There simply is no reason to move him at this point... you want your opponent to get tangled up with your other stuff. If the creation was successful, I activate that next, moving it up, front and center. If not, the single summoned spider moves instead. I've found that opponents will try to shoot it down, or will position themselves to avoid it. 4 single spiders then move up 4 inches in a diamond formation (all in base to base) one at a time. The front 3 go defensive, the 4th one makes a swarm. The swarm goes next, moving itself in front of the other spider. At this point, I have a creation or a single spider 10 inches up, a swarm 8 inches up, a single spider 4 inches up, and I still have a swarm, my totem and 1-2 spiders to activate. I've used 7 activations. Based on my hand, I try to give reactivate to the unmoved swarm at this point, so it can be set up for a 12 inch run/scatter, or a 16 inch run. (I like to use this model to go for sabotage... scattering and then having the newly made spiders perform (1) interact after separating next turn) If I can get really lucky with my reactivate, I'll try to hit Ramos as well, for another salvage/spider/creation/arc screen attempt.

The rest of the game is spent trying to keep swarms in melee, and relying on their self healing abilities and Ramos to keep them above 5 wounds for the extra + to dmg. It's a good game if you can get a third swarm going as well, off of summons. Use reactivate as often as you can! I know it's 11+ of tomes... You should be able to cheat it every other round, and if you just cast it off the top, you will sometimes get it... It is amazing on the swarms with their ability to get 4 attacks off per activation. If Ramos is safe, then freely burn stones to summon spiders. Without taking deck contents into account, it's almost a 50/50 gambit without cheating.

Ideally, this will all cause your opponent to become a tangled mess in the middle of the board. This worked very well in my match ups against the Ortegas, and Marcus. Unfortunately, I was paired against Lilith twice on Sunday, and this strat simply doesn't work against the heavy "come to you" lists. As mentioned before, Ramos is fragile. His low Df score means your opponent will almost always be able to cheat their dmg. Even with his healing abilities, Ramos will only stand up to 4-6 hits (even using soulstones to reduce dmg) For this match up, (and similar) I will be trying to keep a swarm and a single spider back to play bodyguard. Lilith is tough to work around, I found Ramos in h2h on the 2nd turn both games due to the nephlim carry ability. The only advice I can give, is try to do as much as you can to Lilith on the way in, and focus on her once she's there. Trigger Paralyze off the swarm if you can, or Grip from Ramos. Arc screen becomes very important as well.... Get in as much dmg as you can asap, and keep up with the healing!

This list was very fun to play with, but I think it will be flawed against the melee rush crews. In the future, I intend to start with Ramos, Totem, Alyce, a swarm, and 2 singles. (3 extra stones) This will drop my activations a bit, but the extra cards will make reactivate and summons a bit smoother, and Alyce will provide a much needed bodyguard for Ramos.

[Wombats]

Thanks, Parius, thats a really nice run down.

I haven't faced Lilith but I have started creating a cordon of single spiders around Ramos when Silurids are in charge range next round.

At just over 2"+30mm away from him they have to try and break out of melee if they want to hit Ramos...might work against Lilith.

Reforming and opening up with Melee Master really only loses you 1AP and Ramos is free to cast Electrical Fire.

[Karuson]

How do all of you guys use the Brass Arachnid in a gang with Ramos? I'm still waiting for my rulebook and all my models so I'm not even sure what he can do.. I'm just hearing he's a welcome addition in alot of Ramos gangs lol

Edited December 2, 2009 by Karuson

[Wombats]

Between Ramos and the Brass Arachnid you can shoot 5 Electrical Fires in one turn...sorted out Seamus in one activation (they are Companions) last game.

Leprechaun should have charged me

He also has Stoke which requires a high :malitomes but gives a model Reactivate.

This can be fantastic - I stole my opponent's treasure objective with a Reactivated Steamborg and a good Initiative draw.

His Necropunks would have been and gone before I came near it otherwise.

Did take the Red Joker to cast Stoke, though.

You can do some fun stuff putting Reactivate and Companion (via Ramos' Linked In) on a Swarm and then splitting it into spiders who now have Reactivate...6 free attacks and/or detonates

[maverickman5]

Between Ramos and the Brass Arachnid you can shoot 5 Electrical Fires in one turn

Only 4 times unfortunately, as Magical Extension states that it may only be used once per activation. Four times is usually sufficient though.

[Wombats]

Caligula, I wouldn't stress about them moving fast, its not like our spiders can shoot them coming in anyway.

Try and take the hurt on swarms and heal them back up.

Remember their +damage flip and Paralyze trigger and free attacks from Melee Master.

If you can get three targets don't hesitate to go on a bombing run.

I'd be backpedalling with Ramos or just making spiders (unless the mission requires you to move forward) he's the one part of your crew you need out of combat.

Not sure if the tots can mature of construct kills, maybe keep the single spiders up the back obscuring charges on Ramos until you have enough to swarm?

Dv8guy, that sounds like an interesting list, I've never fielded Alice or Joss before. Let us know how it goes.

[archangelq]

Only 4 times unfortunately, as Magical Extension states that it may only be used once per activation. Four times is usually sufficient though.

Nothing saying the brass arachnid can't channel it's one though, so there is that

[Wombats]

Hmmm.

I'd like to be able to channel with the Brass Arachnid.

Turns out I've been cheating shooting two Electrical Fires from my Brass Arachnid.

I reckon the (1) action on the Arachnid and the fact it specifies a (1) casting cost spell would preclude channeling one way or the other.

A (1) cost spell channelled would then be a (2) cost spell...and therefore not eligable for the whatsadooverlaki?

I kind of like the idea of only being able to cast one spell, means you may as well try for a Stoke on a straight flip and cross your fingers.

[archangelq]

I think you have that backward. The Action, Channel(2), allows you to cast a spell that costs (1). Magical Extension is a (1) spell on the Brass Arachnid, with the stipulation that you basically get all it's stats/effects from the master, and you can use soulstones for it. So afaik, it should work.

[Fool]

What about using Renegade Steamfitter Johan as a bodyguard for Ramos? Ramos is a MS&U menber so Johan does not cost more, if he's close to Ramos he gets +2cb and he has good ranged and close combat weapons.

[Keltheos]

They're a nice matchup as well, fool.

Interesting thread, I can't believe I hadn't skimmed through it all until today!

[archangelq]

Only problem for me, I can't stand him or the convict gunslinger's models for the same reason. All that man chest is just, bleh.

[paperbag4]

Spend some time in jail, you'll come around

[archangelq]

Yeah, how about no?

I can see a convict gunslinger alt sculpt, because he's not unique, but Johan I figure will always remain disturbingly underclothed. If I want to use him, I figure I'll have to give him a shirt with some greenstuff

Because honestly, in game, he's a good fit, and other than the chest thing, it's a nice sculpt.

Edited December 6, 2009 by archangelq

[Wombats]

I was against the hairy chested minis as well.

Mind you, now I've seen Marcus up close I don't mind him.

I'm guessing the other bulkier looking minis won't look so bad up close, the small size of the minis stops them looking like a big chunk of lead.

[Darkover]

Hiho and greetings! :itsme:

I'm completely new to the game and it seems like I've once again picked one of the most difficult teams... Ramos is definitely a cool guy and his minions look awesome, but after reading this thread I'm a bit scared of my first game.

To make things even worse, the new errata has changed the rules for latch-on a bit. Do You think that this will significantly harm the arachnids in battle? Or is the good old combo Ramos, Joss, Spiders still a good way to go?

Any help before my first game (against guild or resurrectionists) will be truely appreciated (although this thread was already a great help for me).

Best regards! :clap:

[CserZ]

Don't worry, Darkover, Ramos is "da man"! :-) With Joss and one swarm plus totem and 1-2 single arachnid you can win anytime with good placing and a bit of skill of terrain-using!

I use Big R in three roles:

1.) Spider-factory: (2)Scavenge under fire (0) Construct Spider and (1) Electrical Creation in one round with good Hand is just great! If you have enough spider swarm them together to fight tough guys; scatter them to go to positions (+2Df is great advantage!)

2.) Support master: Arcing Screen and Combat Mechanic to support the fighting Minions

3.) Spellslinger: 3xElectrical Fire can ruin the day of the most enemy :-)

Or combine the three role to the win :-D Joss and the Swarms are melee monsters, maybe Johann or Alyce for ranged options.

[Wombats]

Yeah, seriously, don't stress about Ramos.

He was my first Master and I picked him up fine and played very competitively with him.

His basic crew is fantastic if you add the Brass Arachnid.

Probably the biggest challenge is deciding what to use those big Tomes cards on - building spiders or Reactivating Swarms or the Borg to get them to an objective fast.

Don't get tunnel vision with Ramos - he can nuke, heal, add defense auras and summon new spiders - make sure you're doing what is needed to take out threats rather than focussing on one thing.

[Nutcase168]

I'll be really curious to hear the new debate for Ramos: Mobile took kit vs brass arachnid. One lets you stoke, the other lets you summon a ton easier.

Not to mention his new options.

I've been using him with a lot of success lately.

[Buddhanutz]

Hello Everyone

i am quite new to this game and I chose Ramos as my intial caster. I have not seen this discussed anywhere, but when I was looking at my friends copy of the seacond rule book I noticed a change to manual detonation (Ramos' ability to detonate a construct- I forget the name of the ability). It now states that when the model is killed it does not activate any pulse abilities that also cause damage. So now, I guess, there is no double dipping with the electrical creation (manual detonation + plus the damage that the electrical creation causes when it is killed), nor any double dipping with the gammins (manual detonation+ shatter).

How does this change things? Does it really matter?

[Nutcase168]

Hello Everyone

i am quite new to this game and I chose Ramos as my intial caster. I have not seen this discussed anywhere, but when I was looking at my friends copy of the seacond rule book I noticed a change to manual detonation (Ramos' ability to detonate a construct- I forget the name of the ability). It now states that when the model is killed it does not activate any pulse abilities that also cause damage. So now, I guess, there is no double dipping with the electrical creation (manual detonation + plus the damage that the electrical creation causes when it is killed), nor any double dipping with the gammins (manual detonation+ shatter).

How does this change things? Does it really matter?

It effects the ice Gamin for sure as they were a sick way to deal a lot of damage with controlled detonation.

You never could detonate the electrical creation as he is not a construct (common misconception.)

It doesn't change much for me, I rarely ran gamin with Ramos so I usually would detonate spiders.

(1) detonate spider 6" away

(0) construct spider from scrap token

(1) detonate new spider

(1) summon electrical creation to spot

(1) stoke Ramos

(1)purge electrical creation

Wash Rinse repeat

laugh maniacally. This will be a lot easier with mobile tool kit. but no stoke then.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Nutcase168

[Buddhanutz]

Hello Nutcase. I remember you from the PP forums. Anyway, thanks for the heads up; I never realized that the electrical creation was not a construct.

I am still trying to wrap my head around Ramos because he seems a little underpowered at first, but once he gets rolling he is suprisingly effective. It would be nice though if arcing screen was greater than 3 inches and benefited Ramos. I ordered the brass arachinid so hopefully casting the spell with the arachnid could help keep ramos alive a little bit. This is such a strange game- : )

Edited August 20, 2010 by Buddhanutz
poor english

[Nutcase168]

Hello Nutcase. I remember you from the PP forums. Anyway, thanks for the heads up; I never realized that the electrical creation was not a construct.

I am still trying to wrap my head around Ramos because he seems a little underpowered at first, but once he gets rolling he is suprisingly effective. It would be nice though if arcing screen was greater than 3 inches and benefited Ramos. I ordered the brass arachinid so hopefully casting the spell with the arachnid could help keep ramos alive a little bit. This is such a strange game- : )

He, IMO, is a more back of the field caster. Electric Fire is a decent spell with good range, but really IMO its about making spiders and blowing them up.

The guardian in the guild section(book 2) is a construct that he can take "borrowed technology" that reminds me of a Devout in MW. Its a protector that will help him out a lot. Check out the mobile toolkit and hunter as well. He really got a big boost in the second book.

The brass arachnid is solid, I usually move it and then either go for arcing screen or stoke, or another electrical fire.

And the game isn't strange, its Wyrd :footinmou

Edited August 20, 2010 by Nutcase168

[Xango]

Sorry guys, i can´t hold myself to step in and defend my man Ramos, just a few additions to all the great comments of the fellow forumites, i always use the steamborg, i play most of the time against pandora and with zoraida and even we have a 50/50 score, baby kade is just a f... nightmare for me with zoraida, so one day i decided to throw ramos crew against the pandora chumps, it was a massacre, i latch 3 spyders in baby kade and then explode them with ramos, boom!!!!! baby pieces everywhere, also use this combo... charge with your steamborg, let him do his thing, you know, body parts flying, other models pushed away etc. and then activate him again with your brass arachnid, and pam!!! more body parts flying, anyway, i like ramos a lot and i think is a great crew to play with.