Guild in the Founder's Return!

[Maniacal_cackle]

Well, I've finally signed up to an event as Guild! So I thought I'd make a thread.

This is Round 1...

What are people's thoughts? I look at that and go "hot damn Lucius smashes this."

Sly is also really good at this pool I think.

I've heard Dashel is bad at Cursed Objects cuz summons...

Nellie seems pretty good but the schemes aren't something I'm wild about, unsure of how to approach the pool.

Overall I'm keen on playing Nellie/Lucius/Dashel and maybe a bit of Perdita. Suggestions? Is Dashel that bad on this pool?

[theamazingmrg]

If you're wanting to try Dashel, go Butcher rather than Summoner.

 

Butcher, Executioner, and a Mounted Guard/Pale Rider (to move the Executioner) should be your starting point.

 

Summons can be a liability on Cursed Objects, but Butcher can cover a huge amount of table when he needs to (Without any outside assistance, you're looking at 26" plus his 2" melee range.  With a Sergeant that goes up to 30".  And obviously there's Ride With Me potential on top of that).

 

It also helps that he's brutal when he gets up close too!

[im_open_to_suggestions]

I have been toying with a Butcher Gunline list.  Being able to stone in executes from the riflemen seems like it could be fun. Cursed objects is probably the only viable strat for me to take the list into.  

[Maniacal_cackle]

7 hours ago, theamazingmrg said:

If you're wanting to try Dashel, go Butcher rather than Summoner.

 

Butcher, Executioner, and a Mounted Guard/Pale Rider (to move the Executioner) should be your starting point.

 

Summons can be a liability on Cursed Objects, but Butcher can cover a huge amount of table when he needs to (Without any outside assistance, you're looking at 26" plus his 2" melee range.  With a Sergeant that goes up to 30".  And obviously there's Ride With Me potential on top of that).

 

It also helps that he's brutal when he gets up close too!

Butcher summons even weaker models was pointed out to me.

5 hours ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

I have been toying with a Butcher Gunline list.  Being able to stone in executes from the riflemen seems like it could be fun. Cursed objects is probably the only viable strat for me to take the list into.  

Yeah sounds neat!

[Antipodean]

First well done on faction choice!

I actually think Dashel 1 is fine in Cursed Objects. The 'drawback' is extra curse tokens but then models I typically aim to summon - Executioners & Mounted Guards are very tough to kill and have above average mobility. 9w with HtK and Juggernaut or 8+2w with RwM isn't easy to take out. Most of your typical crew is going to have at least one token in any case.

Dashel 1 also plays well into Breakthrough, Catch and Release, and can defend quite well against Assassinate (something Dashel 2 can be less ideal in). I'd steer clear of Load Them Up as just not efficient enough for marker placement in Guild with Guard keyword. Sabotage a maybe.

Mounted Guard for Breakthrough/Catch and Release. Warden for cheap tough AP and slow, and dragging enemies in. Steward for tools, shielded and obey. Pick last 5-7 stone model dependent on enemy (or drop 2nd Warden for beefy 10-12 stone model like Pale Rider).

New Dashel Barker Crew (Guild)
Size: 50 - Pool: 10
Leader:
  Dashel Barker
Totem(s):
  The Dispatcher
Hires:
  Warden
  Warden 2
  Mounted Guard 
  Executioner
  Guild Lawyer
  Guild Steward
 

That being said Lucius 2 would also have fun on that board, I've recently seen him in action and he murders very well so is great in Cursed Objects. As a master or even... a second master. Does this event allow second masters?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Interesting, will have a look at practicing some Dashel!

Last event I almost soloed Lucius in Neverborn, so I'm keeping him as my safe fallback in case I don't have time to practice something else xD

No double masters in this event

[theamazingmrg]

17 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Butcher summons even weaker models was pointed out to me.

His summons are more of an afterthought.  He's generally better off using the other trigger on Break Protocol (Which helps with Breakthrough and Load 'Em Up).

 

If you're using Butcher to summon, you're doing it wrong.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I ended up locking Nellie as I don't think I'll be able to practice anything for this week (although been practicing Basse for round 2 and hope to add Lady J to the roster).

My list:

• Nellie 1 with LLC
• Totem
• Pale Rider
• Melissa Kore
• Lone Marshal
• Guild Steward
• Guild Lawyer
• 5 stones

His list:

• Ophelia 2
• 3 totems
• 3 Lacroix Raiders
• Sammy
• Bo Beep
• Rami
• Merris
• 6 stones

So I've gone pretty elite and he has gone very cheap-model oriented with a bit of a horde strategy.

[DuBlanck]

Perhaps this is more obvious to someone experienced with Nellie - why Nellie without her Keyword?
Just to control the Cursed interactions?

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

Perhaps this is more obvious to someone experienced with Nellie - why Nellie without her Keyword?
Just to control the Cursed interactions?

I just put together a list-building video explaining all my choices for the game, so there should be a great deal of explanation in there!

Short version, you pick the master before you know the opponent's master. For this round, there were at least 4 keyword models on my maybe list (and I would like to bring Allison 100% of the time if the matchup allows it), but.. Once he declared Ophelia I felt like most of my keyword options didn't work (and I explain why with each one in the video), so ended up with these all fixing specific problems.

I would have chosen Lucius for this round as I'm a lot better with him, but I played him a lot last month in Neverborn and people encouraged me to do a change of pace. I really like Nellie so wanted to investigate what I can do with her in a variety of pools.

That said, I rarely take that many keyword models, as I tend to like masters with weaker keywords. So a list with very few keyword models is pretty standard for me. I take whatever models I think will work in a given situation, and with card draw masters like Nellie, Lucius, Molly, or Marcus it is very easy to play a wide variety of models.

[DuBlanck]

@Maniacal_cacklechannel name?

52 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I rarely take that many keyword models, as I tend to like masters with weaker keywords.

Are those directly related or coincidentally adjacent?

Weak-Keyword Masters tend to be stronger individual models because they are designed/power-budgeted to be good without the help of their Keyword? Which leaves you free to spend Stones on good Versatiles and OOKs.

Whereas Masters that are intended to be heavily involved in their Keyword crew, so you effectively pay a 'tax' by taking less-good in-Keyword options to enable the Master?

[Maniacal_cackle]

8 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

@Maniacal_cacklechannel name?

Are those directly related or coincidentally adjacent?

Weak-Keyword Masters tend to be stronger individual models because they are designed/power-budgeted to be good without the help of their Keyword? Which leaves you free to spend Stones on good Versatiles and OOKs.

Whereas Masters that are intended to be heavily involved in their Keyword crew, so you effectively pay a 'tax' by taking less-good in-Keyword options to enable the Master?

I don't have my own channel but am hosted by Diceman. I'll post a link as soon as it is up

I prefer card draw masters,  but they tend to have weak keywords cuz card draw is so strong... so I just play then with out of keyword things.

[admiralvorkraft]

On 8/8/2022 at 3:30 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

I prefer card draw masters,  but they tend to have weak keywords cuz card draw is so strong... so I just play then with out of keyword things.

That's almost verbatim my argument as to why ook hiring should be limited/eliminated. "Optimized" crews make for boring games - in my opinion.

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

That's almost verbatim my argument as to why ook hiring should be limited/eliminated. "Optimized" crews make for boring games - in my opinion.

On the flip side, in tournaments if you limit OOKs & versatiles, you go from about ~50 viable masters in the game to probably about ~20. In my experience, whenever someone has organized a keyword tournament, people don't play lucius/molly/marcus/nellie/etc. They just play stuff like Yan Lo or Perdita with their strong keywords.

Although I also find keyword play super boring. It's just the same crew over and over, whereas with my Lucius/Molly/Nellie/marcus/etc crews, every game is carefully tailored with a different crew list most games.

[admiralvorkraft]

Oh, you're almost certainly right. Transmortis is a keyword with nothing but strengths so I have no interest in it but it'd get way overplayed in keyword limited tournaments.

I don't really care about running the same crew every game. If I've got the third best tool for the job and I have to make it work that's going to create a totally unique game shape. You get the best stories when the characters involved have clear strengths, weaknesses, and motivations and I feel like you get the most interesting games from the same ingredients. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Here's my pre-game analysis explaining the list choices

[Maniacal_cackle]

And the actual game! Much longer than the pre-game analysis of course, but had some interesting twists and turns

There's some difficulties at the start and the sound isn't ideal... But someone helped me recover the disaster that I created so it is okay xD

[Corn]

Out of curiosity, why did you opt for Nellie1 instead of Nellie2?  

Especially since you opted to go for a crew of Out of Keyword / Versatile models.  She still has exclusive interview.  You trade Squeal for First to Speak, but Spread the Word makes her an even more aggressive control piece in terms of spreading status ailments around.  I feel like Nellie2 has a bit of a stronger card, especially when you aren't fully leveraging Journalist synergies.  And it opens up the option for Auguste... who is kind of cracked out in Nellie2.

[Maniacal_cackle]

13 minutes ago, Corn said:

Out of curiosity, why did you opt for Nellie1 instead of Nellie2?  

Especially since you opted to go for a crew of Out of Keyword / Versatile models.  She still has exclusive interview.  You trade Squeal for First to Speak, but Spread the Word makes her an even more aggressive control piece in terms of spreading status ailments around.  I feel like Nellie2 has a bit of a stronger card, especially when you aren't fully leveraging Journalist synergies.  And it opens up the option for Auguste... who is kind of cracked out in Nellie2.

I'm more comfortable with one.

But also I feel Nellie 1 is great without her keyword (though Allison is fantastic).  With slow news day, Nellie 1 provides all the distracted and stunned I need. I don't think Nellie 2 can easily stun one model, much less easily stun multiple models at once.

EDIT: to be more clear. Nellie 1 can hand out conditions by herself, while Nellie 2 needs some assistance.

Round 2, Nellie's false reality is super strong into all the severe, but my opponent is Nekima so that's not very useful xD

[Maniacal_cackle]

So uh... Don't want to give spoilers, but the first turn is worth a watch xD

[4thstringer]

On 8/4/2022 at 10:48 AM, im_open_to_suggestions said:

I have been toying with a Butcher Gunline list.  Being able to stone in executes from the riflemen seems like it could be fun. Cursed objects is probably the only viable strat for me to take the list into.  

Double mounted guard, double sarge is a fave of mine.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Pregame for round 3!

[Maniacal_cackle]

And the rest of the videos:

• Round 3 game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRXNyxygCko&t=2s
• Round 4 pregame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX4BioT9eN0
• Round 4 game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5VzQI2AGrc&t=1625s

[Maniacal_cackle]

Well, was a great outing for my first Guild experience. 3-1 is a pretty good result, especially since the loss was to a Guild player who knew my models better than I did xD

Nellie seems strong, but her best trick falls over a bit since you can block the stunned just by getting focus on your models.  Exclusive interview still seems incredible this season, so would be keen to give her more of a go.

Lucius... Still a monster at scoring points, so still feels like every Guild player should have Lucius in their arsenal!

I considered playing Guild again for the next event, but decided to skip the event for a break instead.