Maniacal_cackle Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 Well, Lucius is my passion project at the moment, so I'll share what I've found so far for the best models to pair with Lucius 2 that I've found so far. Guild lawyers and changelings: these are the only models in his keyword hiring that I've found so far, but still have to test cavatica. They hold Ancient Pact well and provide so much support. Lawyers provide tons of card quality, shielded for the armored models, and combo with Vasilisa for double surge bonus action. Changelings provide the scoring power for such an elite crew. Ideally I'd want 2 of each but can't fit it, so my last list has 2 changelings, 1 lawyer, 2 pacts. Vasilisa and Hinamatsu: these puppets hand out staggered, which is fantastic. But they also combo with shielded from lawyer, and Vasilisa pull the strings combos with Lucius scheme marker in the early game. Giving the lawyer another bonus action with built in surge is incredible. They're also just solid tanks and damage dealers. Vasilisa hits like a truck against staggered models, and puts so much card pressure if she punches an unactivated model. Candy: the crew does hand pressure, and Candy is best in faction for it. She also provides healing which is awesome for armored models. I've had two games with her, but am pretty sure she is going to be an auto take. Mysterious Emissary: one of the best models in the faction for handing out staggered, I really really like this guy. Unfortunately he plays a bit bubbly and isn't quite as ridiculous as the above options, so I have started to cut him. But in some matchups/pools, absolutely on the maybe list. What else? What other cool combos are people trying? I keep eying up the Thoon combo but it seems like too much shenanigans for something your opponent can undo with a slam action... The above options typically give me crews with tons of card draw (I've hit six extra cards in a turn before, plus tools...), lots of mobility and options. I might focus on him in my next tournament! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 Have you tried Blood Caps at all? They're cheap and with Vasilisa, they're more puppets to hand out Staggered and when they die she can re-summon them or Stitched. She can also taxi them as they're Sz1. Can do some decent damage when Shielded and are great anti scheme tech with Trail of Gore. Not Neverborn, but I really like The look of Reid. Diversion, Nefarious Pact, Boring Conversation, Great attack with all the Staggered being thrown around or ranged Slow. So many options! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extremor Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 In some cases Alan Reid is everything. His boring conversation and diversion can easily shut down a Coryphee Duett 1-2 turns. With 1-2 Stones he can be a huge pain around the center. And one more question with coordinated attack is dangerous as well. He will probably die but if played accordingly he does great work. And in your case, combined with Candy he can be an Option since he can execute as well. Since you do have the tankyness why not add some more punch? Agent 46 still is a good damage dealer. He can control one flank with a changeling alone. Cavatica is an all right schemer and also a good way to sidekick a changeling. So maybe I would try cavatica and one changeling. by the way: how do you use the changeling? Is Scribe enough to use sidekick, or do you use the ability hardly at all? To me they are high mobility Models and therefor can’t hold ancient pact You could go deeper into the Puppets but it may as well be a trap…? Then again sumonable stiched are promising. There you have: Wicked Dolls, Effigy, Red Caps and Stiched … and Widow Weaver? Dolls are cheapest, Effigy is tough, caps are more offensive and stiched are best to be summoned. Mhh not completely convinced…🤷🏻♀️ I am mostly sold on this List to try: New Lucius Mattheson Crew (Neverborn) Size: 50 - Pool: 5 Leader: Lucius Mattheson, Dishonorable Totem(s): The Scribe Hires: Hinamatsu Alan Reid Candy Vasilisa Guild Lawyer Ancient Pact Wicked Doll 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 I’ve had some fun with a Cyclops for handing out staggered. Alan Reid is always an MVP. - But mostly I’ve been insisting on keeping it in keyword and using False Witnesses and Investigators, and I’m not really sure it’s worth it 🤥 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extremor Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 @RegelridderenI also play in keyword. My last 2 turnaments were all right with that… I won 6/9 games with it and there would have been better Results if I had known my opponents crews better. against some opponents a tough setup is way better. AND playing 3 games with Lucius in a Row is a pain in the Brain. A easy setup might be a way to play more Lucius. And more toughness is the way to go imho. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, extremor said: @RegelridderenI also play in keyword. My last 2 turnaments were all right with that… I won 6/9 games with it and there would have been better Results if I had known my opponents crews better. against some opponents a tough setup is way better. AND playing 3 games with Lucius in a Row is a pain in the Brain. A easy setup might be a way to play more Lucius. And more toughness is the way to go imho. I do believe the match ups I’ve had have been against Lucius’s favor. And they’ve mostly been against the undead and their HtW. I just don’t think, I’ve properly ‘cracked the code’. That said, the combination of False Witnesses and two Investigators is pretty impressive for unpacking the crew and card draw. I just haven’t mastered it yet 😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extremor Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 23 minutes ago, Regelridderen said: I do believe the match ups I’ve had have been against Lucius’s favor. And they’ve mostly been against the undead and their HtW. I just don’t think, I’ve properly ‘cracked the code’. That said, the combination of False Witnesses and two Investigators is pretty impressive for unpacking the crew and card draw. I just haven’t mastered it yet 😊 If only the Investigators wouldn‘t die so easy ☺️ But yes especially with dishonorable they are very dangerous and very fun to play the Point in using Puppets and others is to have a core list, that is less situational or depending on the opponents master/Crew. With that it is more easy to train and get the experience needed to play more constantly on tournaments. Especially with the new variety of title masters… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 41 minutes ago, extremor said: If only the Investigators wouldn‘t die so easy ☺️ But yes especially with dishonorable they are very dangerous and very fun to play the Point in using Puppets and others is to have a core list, that is less situational or depending on the opponents master/Crew. With that it is more easy to train and get the experience needed to play more constantly on tournaments. Especially with the new variety of title masters… Yes, they do feel very gimmicky - particularly in the current environment. And you have little need of that many mini min(3) beaters, it feels more optimal to leave assassination to Lucy and having more self reliant beaters like Hinamatsu, who even support Lucy. On a side note : How do people feel about Lucy’s Down the wrong path. To me it feels like it would trigger an attack from all elite/mimic models ending up engaging the target, but others are quite adamant it’ll only trigger one attack, regardless of numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Regelridderen said: On a side note : How do people feel about Lucy’s Down the wrong path. To me it feels like it would trigger an attack from all elite/mimic models ending up engaging the target, but others are quite adamant it’ll only trigger one attack, regardless of numbers. I sort of see your point, but nothing in the language suggests what to do about multiple attacks, and frankly from a power point of view, it is too easily abused to be crazy good if you were able to get multiple models to attack from each use of it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extremor Posted June 4, 2022 Report Share Posted June 4, 2022 I am thinking about the kurgan: -armor +2 so also a good target for Shielded. -good movement shenanigans (shifting earth and avalanche) -attacking movement (avalanche and shifted trigger) to misplace enemy models EDIT: I think shifting earth and avalanche are really good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2022 Great points and been meaning to respond to them, but been busy. Will try to respond later! At the moment trying a Wicked Doll with Vasilisa and wowza! It's super good against shooting xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2022 On 6/4/2022 at 12:22 AM, Da Git said: Have you tried Blood Caps at all? They're cheap and with Vasilisa, they're more puppets to hand out Staggered and when they die she can re-summon them or Stitched. She can also taxi them as they're Sz1. Can do some decent damage when Shielded and are great anti scheme tech with Trail of Gore. Not Neverborn, but I really like The look of Reid. Diversion, Nefarious Pact, Boring Conversation, Great attack with all the Staggered being thrown around or ranged Slow. So many options! I'd be keen to try the Red Caps in a pool where Trail of Gore matters a lot, but I'm also a bit more inclined to run Wicked Dolls and then just summon the Red Caps. Alan Reid is nice, but he plays a bit too bubbly for me... Although maybe I should try comboing him with Candy. In Guild he is way more survivable thanks to LLC + Guild Mage, but maybe it can work with Neverborn. I also don't like how he puts intense activation pressure on your crew (as you want to activate him ASAP to get that aura up). He also can't use both his bonus actions which are the main thing I like about his card. I'd also feel more comfortable if he was df6. Still, worth testing when the armor build doesn't work. On 6/4/2022 at 4:31 AM, extremor said: And in your case, combined with Candy he can be an Option since he can execute as well. That's a great point, worth trying that out! On 6/4/2022 at 4:31 AM, extremor said: Since you do have the tankyness why not add some more punch? Agent 46 still is a good damage dealer. He can control one flank with a changeling alone. I find I have tons of killing power already, and again Agent is awkward because he puts activation order pressure on you (you want to bonus with him as early in the turn as possible). Although again, perhaps worth it with Candy sometimes - Self Loathing can be extremely devastating! He also dies quite easily, but the stealth can really help in some matchups. I was just against a Perdita, and even having stealth on the Changeling and Doll made a difference. On 6/4/2022 at 4:31 AM, extremor said: You could go deeper into the Puppets but it may as well be a trap…? Then again sumonable stiched are promising. There you have: Wicked Dolls, Effigy, Red Caps and Stiched … and Widow Weaver? Dolls are cheapest, Effigy is tough, caps are more offensive and stiched are best to be summoned. Mhh not completely convinced…🤷🏻♀️ Yeah, I just tested the doll and it was amazing. Scoop up from Vasilisa means you've got so much scheming power so your elite models can spend their time punching. My wicked doll was involved in all four leyline points for me! Definitely willing to give Red Caps a go, but would have to be the perfect pool I think. Stithced I also considered, but they're expensive enough that I think I'd rather just bring the wicked doll and incidentally summon if it ever comes up. On 6/4/2022 at 4:31 AM, extremor said: New Lucius Mattheson Crew (Neverborn) Size: 50 - Pool: 5 Leader: Lucius Mattheson, Dishonorable Totem(s): The Scribe Hires: Hinamatsu Alan Reid Candy Vasilisa Guild Lawyer Ancient Pact Wicked Doll Let us know how it goes! I'm worried it is a bit light on stones and it is sad to be down an ancient pact, but give it a go! My main issue is the options at this point are so GREAT that even the stuff that is good may not be good enough xD On 6/4/2022 at 6:55 AM, extremor said: the Point in using Puppets and others is to have a core list, that is less situational or depending on the opponents master/Crew. With that it is more easy to train and get the experience needed to play more constantly on tournaments. Especially with the new variety of title masters… Also on the puppet note is I think they're so strong that they should be the 'default' for the crew, but if you're expecting the opponent to ignore armor you should probably pivot to something else. So good to have lots of builds in mind for when armor 2 is basically blank text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extremor Posted June 7, 2022 Report Share Posted June 7, 2022 On 6/3/2022 at 6:31 PM, extremor said: by the way: how do you use the changeling? Is Scribe enough to use sidekick, or do you use the ability hardly at all? To me they are high mobility Models and therefor can’t hold ancient pact Push this question cause I have no time to test it myself atm. I love changelings too, but have played it with more mimics to teleport to so far… so how do they do with only 1-2 mimics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, extremor said: Push this question cause I have no time to test it myself atm. I love changelings too, but have played it with more mimics to teleport to so far… so how do they do with only 1-2 mimics? Oh, I missed it. One teleport per game (to scribe or Lucius), then just rely on walk actions plus disguised and stealth to keep it safe. I end up treating them very differently from crooligans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 Oh, as for holding Ancient Pact... I find with stealth and disguised, I usually just send them off on their own to scheme run (which means they usually survive most of the game so they hold Ancient Pact well). I now avoid schemes that require them to go into the action (like catch and release), because they will die instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaylos Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 What's your typical list looking like for Luci2 these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Vaylos said: What's your typical list looking like for Luci2 these days? I'm still on: Lucius and Totem Lawyer with pact Changeling with pact Wicked doll Hinamatsu Vasilisa Emissary/Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaylos Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 37 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: I'm still on: Lucius and Totem Lawyer with pact Changeling with pact Wicked doll Hinamatsu Vasilisa Emissary/Candy Thanks. I'll steal that and mess around with it. I've recently started experimenting with him and haven't found a good crew yet and this seems like an interesting spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranky Old Man Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 Post nerf what are the changelings adding to the crew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 23 minutes ago, Cranky Old Man said: Post nerf what are the changelings adding to the crew? Reallllllly good scheme runners! Also they're minions so can hold Ancient Pact. My first builds had double lawyer with Ancient Pact and I was drowning in cards and shielded, but... The points were a little bit difficult. Two changelings gives soooooo much scoring power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 Specifically sidekick let's them get in position turn 1, and then the rest of the game their stealth, disguised, and manipulative keeps them safe as long as they're far from the action. Also their attack can smash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranky Old Man Posted June 27, 2022 Report Share Posted June 27, 2022 OK good to know. I'm playing in a tournament this weekend coming and for the first time playing Neverborn. Trying to work out which masters to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 Testing out Mature Neph with Lucius today. Turned his coordinated attacks into min 5. Definitely gotta recommend Mature Neph/Hooded Rider for the crew xD Also that extra movement saved him a whole action, which was critical. Couldn't have killed Archie without the Mature. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Testing out Mature Neph with Lucius today. Turned his coordinated attacks into min 5. Definitely gotta recommend Mature Neph/Hooded Rider for the crew xD Also that extra movement saved him a whole action, which was critical. Couldn't have killed Archie without the Mature. Explain the min5 coordinated attack again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Regelridderen said: Explain the min5 coordinated attack again? I think it's just a case of a min 2 attack that leads to a min 3 attack, but I might be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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