Bloodwretches: Are they any good at last?

[Rosenzweig]

I'm very fond of all the Half-Blood models and have found uses for Tuco and Angel Eyes.

The Bloodwretches (and Maurice) not so much. Now that Bloodwretches are hard to kill and have a bonus action that doesn't hurt them, would it make sense to upgrade them for Blade Rush, so they can inflict damage while breaking through? 

Any other suggestions welcome (including for Tuco, Angel Eyes and Maurice).   

[Maniacal_cackle]

Their new bonus action, furious swipe, also combos really well with black blood. Could potentially do 2 or even 3 damage with it.

[Rabbitknight]

I can confidently say they are better than Corrupted Hounds. Beyond that... time will tell.

[Hawkoon]

Tried them a few times, and I think they're really worth considering now. They are particullary good with nephilim, as they don't care about black blood (and may even heal from splash with Hayreddin in range). The combination of htk and drink blood makes them occasionally hard to remove.

[Morgan Vening]

3 hours ago, Hawkoon said:

Tried them a few times, and I think they're really worth considering now. They are particullary good with nephilim, as they don't care about black blood (and may even heal from splash with Hayreddin in range). The combination of htk and drink blood makes them occasionally hard to remove.

Do wish there was a way to have that trigger conditionally built in. Definitiely wouldn't want it added to the stat, or too easy to get it, but something like a front of card version of Reference the Field Guide, even if it's got a downside.

I'd be up for something like "Insatiable Hunger: Discard a card, Gain a Ram to all Duels during this model's activation. At the end of it's activation, it takes 1 damage.". 

One of the things I love about Malifaux is the card mechanic. But one of the problems is how skewed it can be based on the SS of the model.

Even excluding the benefit of "use soulstones", you're gonna hold onto that big card for a better model. Why use a suited Severe for this model, when you can use it on a model with an above average return on investment? It's hard enough justifying discarding a Weak for a low cost model, let alone something more.

Just wish there was a way of increasing some of the less utilised model's chances of pulling off a nifty trigger, rather than the 12% (often much less) of getting these things off. Not saying it needs to be a massive increase, but 20% would be nice, 30-40% if there's a cost involved.
* I figure you need at least a suited 8 to have a chance of actually pulling off the trigger, both hitting with a Ram, and not having an opponent cheat above with a low Moderate.

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

Do wish there was a way to have that trigger conditionally built in. Definitiely wouldn't want it added to the stat, or too easy to get it, but something like a front of card version of Reference the Field Guide, even if it's got a downside.

I'd be up for something like "Insatiable Hunger: Discard a card, Gain a Ram to all Duels during this model's activation. At the end of it's activation, it takes 1 damage.". 

One of the things I love about Malifaux is the card mechanic. But one of the problems is how skewed it can be based on the SS of the model.

Even excluding the benefit of "use soulstones", you're gonna hold onto that big card for a better model. Why use a suited Severe for this model, when you can use it on a model with an above average return on investment? It's hard enough justifying discarding a Weak for a low cost model, let alone something more.

Just wish there was a way of increasing some of the less utilised model's chances of pulling off a nifty trigger, rather than the 12% (often much less) of getting these things off. Not saying it needs to be a massive increase, but 20% would be nice, 30-40% if there's a cost involved.
* I figure you need at least a suited 8 to have a chance of actually pulling off the trigger, both hitting with a Ram, and not having an opponent cheat above with a low Moderate.

I agree to an extent, but also if you're good at trigger management there will definitely be times when you get to go "guess I'm cheating this four of rams to heal".

For instance if your opponent flips a 3 and you flip an 8, they might decide it's not worth the cheat and let you have it.

[Antipodean]

Used one recently in flank turf war. He grabbed a side table turf point, and then held up two other 5 ss models from getting it off me until turn 5 (at which point didn't need it) by himself.  Using a combination of drink blood (low rams for min damage still heal 2), new hard to kill, and the risky maneuver push/focus to get around things.

So 5 SS for a fast schemer that can heal itself and push itself around... is a real pain for opponents models to pin down... yep I'm liking it now. Can see 1-2 as a general inclusion if I'm looking for an extra model in most crews with a bit of speed.

[Korrok]

They look like a definite consideration in nephilim specifically. Running them in on a big scrum and pulsing that damage to just drench enemies with black blood could just drop multiple low cost models or finish off bigger ones without any real resistance. 

[Adran]

12 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

Just wish there was a way of increasing some of the less utilised model's chances of pulling off a nifty trigger, rather than the 12% (often much less) of getting these things off. Not saying it needs to be a massive increase, but 20% would be nice, 30-40% if there's a cost involved.
* I figure you need at least a suited 8 to have a chance of actually pulling off the trigger, both hitting with a Ram, and not having an opponent cheat above with a low Moderate.

You have a slightly strange (to me) mindset in the view that its not worth you cheating to get the trigger off, but it is worth them cheating to stop the hits. But then I'm prepared to cheat the severe to try and hit with the blood wretch if I want to heal, because my benefit analysis will at times show that the hit matters, or the heal matters. For example if its on 1 wound then the heal will cost them an extra action to kill in almost all cases, and so the payback of the ram severe is probably higher on the blood wretch than it would be on a mature, if 2 damage and 2 healing is better than 3 damage (assuming weak).

Although I do think it does depend on how you play, and how your meta plays, and what you hire. 

 

[Da Git]

20 minutes ago, Adran said:

You have a slightly strange (to me) mindset in the view that its not worth you cheating to get the trigger off, but it is worth them cheating to stop the hits. But then I'm prepared to cheat the severe to try and hit with the blood wretch if I want to heal, because my benefit analysis will at times show that the hit matters, or the heal matters. For example if its on 1 wound then the heal will cost them an extra action to kill in almost all cases, and so the payback of the ram severe is probably higher on the blood wretch than it would be on a mature, if 2 damage and 2 healing is better than 3 damage (assuming weak).

Although I do think it does depend on how you play, and how your meta plays, and what you hire. 

 

Agreed. Everything is contextual in Malifaux. It could be worth cheating a Red Joker to land a Mindless Zombie attack if it will score a point/win the game! (an extreme example perhaps, but it proves my point!)

[Morgan Vening]

On 2/23/2022 at 9:23 PM, Adran said:

You have a slightly strange (to me) mindset in the view that its not worth you cheating to get the trigger off, but it is worth them cheating to stop the hits. But then I'm prepared to cheat the severe to try and hit with the blood wretch if I want to heal, because my benefit analysis will at times show that the hit matters, or the heal matters. For example if its on 1 wound then the heal will cost them an extra action to kill in almost all cases, and so the payback of the ram severe is probably higher on the blood wretch than it would be on a mature, if 2 damage and 2 healing is better than 3 damage (assuming weak).

Although I do think it does depend on how you play, and how your meta plays, and what you hire. 

Oh, I wasn't factoring in the chance of winning with a cheat. That starts to make the math even fuzzier (as you need a moderate to high ram in hand, and not need/use it elsewhere).

I just used the 12% as a modest example. 25% chance of naturally flipping the Ram. Against most models you're going to win a tie, so it's what, a 52% chance of that remaining 25%, so ~13%. But I didn't want to ignore the likelihood that if I flip a three of Rams, and my opponent flips a 2, they can cheat in a 4-6 of any suit fairly easily (especially if it puts me back above H2K) to force me to cheat, and mathematically, I probably don't have a higher Ram in hand.

Similarly, if I flip a nine of Rams, and my opponent cheats in an eleven, the chance I can play a higher Ram is vanishingly small.

So I dropped it a percent point, figured circumstances could drop it lower (you may hit the Trigger when the Bloodwretch isn't wounded, so it's a technical yay, but it doesn't matter to the gamestate) if there's some other factor at play.

I was just pointing out I'd rather some triggers on weaker models happened at a higher rate than they do at the moment.