jack daw Jacks Misery (Jack Daw Tactica)

[Favilludo]

There has been some discussion about Jack Daw on the forum and in my LGS (mostly thanks to me🙃) lately so I am gonna put what I learned about the crew playing about 10 - 15 games in m3e With him. I have a few games in with Tormented in Henchman Hardcore in as well and Montressor is quite good there but it is not what I will focus on here.

Lets start with the one and only:

Jack daw

Df: 5, Wp: 7, Mv: 5, Sz: 2
Pretty average statline, the Wp 7 is nice but nothing special for a master.

Undying and Injustice:
At only 6 Wounds, Jack is the master in M3E with the lowest woundcount. Undying however allows him to discard a card every time he takes damage to change it to 1 irreducable damage. Note that this is not a reduction, the damage simply becomes 1. Injustice is the flipside of that coin. Whenever a tormented model draws a card, he can instead heal 1. These two abilities make him insanely survivable and very hard to kill. Injustice is quite tricky to get used to since you have to decide wether you want to keep jack up and running or you want to have more recources in hand. I  generally try to have a full hand earlier in the turn. Later it usually starts to crystalize wether or not i will need to draw more cards or if I am fine with the cards I have in my hand. I do however generally try to give him another way to heal.

Terrifying (12):
His main way of defense. Whenever an enemy model targets Jack daw with an attack action, they first need to pass a WP duel Tn 12 or just dont do the action. This combined with Disturbing whispers, which lowers Wp by -1 means that the average model has to flip an 8 or higher to even try to hit Jack. This is less than a 50% chance to even try to hit. While they can cheat for it, that is the exact thing that jack wants, getting rid of your hand. Additionally if they do get through it, you just got rid of a moderate or higher card in their deck. While this does sound like a small thing, it will rack up with how many models with terrifying the tormented have.

Torment:

This is the tormented keyword ability. At the end of an activation, if this model dealt damage to a model with an upgrade attached, you draw a card. This has two parts. First you give out curses to enemies and then draw cards if you hit them. Seccondly, this makes your enemy think twice about bringing upgrades since you will draw from that. Also this gives you a natural advantage against any summoners since they will usualy hand out summon upgrades.
Honestly I feel like this ability is underestemated. While on one model it does not seem like all that much, from turn 2 on i usualy draw between 3 and 6 cards a turn from this ability alone.

Disturbing whispers:

The Tormented often get refered to as a bubble crew. This is Jack Daws bubble and in my oppinion one of the stronger in the crew. It lowers the Wp of enemy models within 6'' of Jack. This means that most of your ranged attacks and some of your mele attacks are more likely to hit, your enemy is less likely to hit most of your models because of Terrifying and your pulses get better. While this does seem minor, it does pretty much kill 4 cards in your opponents deck or hand for every Wp flip they make.

Now to his back:

Dead Man's Collar: range 1 mele, stat 6, resisted by Mv.
    With a damage profile of 2/3/4 this is a pretty average attack if your opponent does not have staggered. I usually dont use this attack if they don't have staggered because his cast is simply better in that case because it gives them a curse. If they are staggered however, this attack becomes insane. First of it targets Mv. This means not a single defensive trigger in the game. Since they have staggered, this is basically stat 8 which is insane. They always have to discard a card and then come the triggers. On a ram it becomes a 4/5/6 damage profile which is crazy good. On a crow they essentially just discarded 2 cards or one card and a soulstone or you got rid of a model. This is also part of one of the tactics that I like to run with Jack. Bring a load of soulstones and get rid of their hand as fast as possible. Then towards the end of the turn, start spamming execute triggers with Jack and Montressor and kill those core models. I rarely use the Punishment trigger on this model unless I already kill their model with the base damage. If I need it, I go for Supressed Memories.

Speaking of which: Suppressed Memories: range 8'', stat 6 with built in crow trigger, resisted by Wp.

    While the damage profile of 2/3/3 is not that good, thatt is not why you use this Action. This is Jacks way of cursing enemy models. The Curse of Injustice gives the model it is attached to staggered in the start phase and they now have the tormented keyword. This is everything you want. While not that flashy, they now have every single drawback you need on them. Why that is I will go into later. The built in Punishment trigger is awesome. Two things to remember here: Their cursed models are tormented and don't get to resist this and while it is awesome to get your own Models into position it is usually better to get theirs in the wrong position. The seccond trigger is On Your Heels and Jack shares this with his best friends the Hanged. This trigger is amazing and often worth stoning for. It can move you up to 11'' against a 50mm model and you are now engaging something usually in the enemy backline. Also, since you can use this while engaged, it is also an excellent tool to leave your enemies beaters somewhere they dont want to be or get Jack out of a tough spot. Additionally, this can also be used on your own guilty and you dont even have to give them the cuse because of the way their Guilty as charged ability works. Usually I use this in the first turn to get Jack 10'' forwards for one Ap but it is also pretty handy to get him out of a fray.

Drawn to Betrayal: range 16'', Stat 6, Tn 12, Rst Wp.

    The first of his two bonus actions. I wish I could use those as normal actions honestly, they are so good. At a range of 16'', this pushes a Tormented model 6'' towards another tormented Model. Tricks like this are why I don't think that his crew is slow. While you will usually use this on your own Models, don't forget that it can be used on the enemy. It is hillarious to get their sniper into mele with this combined with a lure or two from Jakuna.

Whispered Truths: pulse 3'', Stat 6, Tn 12.

    This action is insane and I try to use it at least once per activation after turn 2. If used in the right moment it can easily affect 3 to 4 models. They then have to do a TN 13 Wp duel (remember that they get -1 to Wp as well) or gain Slow. This means that you just got rid of 3-4 Ap generally from a beater or they have used 3 - 4 of their good cards. Even if this is out of their deck, with an average Wp of 5 (now 4) they need a 9 or higher and trust me, this is not what they want to use it for. Even if they flip or cheat to prevent the slow, Jack has 3 Ap so you can just use it again. This combined with Terrifying and other abilities similar is why enemies usually think that they are flipping really badly. They usually either use one of their high cards either out of their deck or their hand for this, which feels bad, or they fail it, which feels even worse. It's a lose - lose situation for them, or a win - win for you. Then, because that opression is not enough, they also built in a trigger to get you the tormented draw. On a crow, every Enemy model within 3'' with a cursed Upgrade suffers 2 damage. No resist, nothing. Among Jack, the hanged and the guilty, I often dish out 5 or more upgrades in a game and this trigger usually deals between 2 and 8 damage.

Fickle Tormentor: pulse 4'', no flip.

    Draw a card for each enemy model in range with a Cursed Upgrade. No flip whatsoever. Worst case you draw a card for a guilty in range since they can be counted as enemy and usually have a curse after turn 1. I however often find myself drawing 3-4 cards from this especially if my enemy plays a fighter crew. Remember that in a pickle, this can also heal Jack for insane ammounts in a heartbeat but I generally use other ways of healing for that.

In my oppinion Jack is incredible as a master. While he does take quite some getting used to especially because of the wound situation he is very survivable and even if the enemy kills him, he usually takes so much to take down they will have lost an insane ammount of recourses. Important with him is in my oppinion to use him more as a utility piece than a beater. In general I use him as a feelbad for my opponent. If i have the choice between taking one of their models or slowing more than one or getting rid of their hand, it is generally better to minimise their options than to kill. With him you want to think how you can make your opponent have as little options as possible.

Now for his Totem:

Lady Ligeia

Wd 4, Df 5, Wp 4, Mv 5, Sz 2.

While her stat line is quite good for a 2 SS Model, she is usually the squishiest model in the crew. She does have some defensive tech and can survive a hit. But as soon as it is 2 hits, she is gone. Keep her allive. She is insanely important for the crew since she takes away your opponents ability to be sure of anything. Cheating is the strongest thing you can do in the game since it guarantees certain hits and you just double the cost of it as long as she is nearby. We'll get to that.

Incorporeal:

    Her defense: She ignores any terrain and Models while moving and is unaffected by Hazardous Terrain. Also this reduces any damage she takes from attack actions by 1 to a minimum of 0. While this does help her live through blasts usw. It is not why this is such a good defensive tech. This can be used to get her out of line of seight and out of charge ranger of almost any model. Combined with Mv 5 this means that she can hide behind walls, inside of dense terrain usw. Use this to keep her out of seigth and move her into the bubble when you have started egaging your enemy.

Torment:

    We talked about this with Jack. On ligeia, this will rarely be usefull since she rarely if ever attacks but hey, nice to have.

Betrayal:

    This is the sole reason she is good. Enemy models within 6'' must discard a card to cheat fate. Want to get through terrifying and flip badly? costs 2 cards now. Want to guarantee an attack from hitting? Costst 2 cards now. This means that without carddraw, they can cheat a grand total of 3 times a turn. This is actually even with carddraw quite an accurate number since you make them discard with pretty much every model in your crew. If they use those 3 times early, they now have an empty hand, bring on the executes. If they don't, make them discard before they can actually cheat. Having cards in hand while your opponent does not is pretty much the most powerful situation to be in. You can guarantee your abilities to hit while they have to gamble on every single Ap. And even if they hit their attack, you can then cheat to cancel it.

Insignificant:

    She costs 2 SS, what did you expect.

Now for the flipside of the card.

Talons: Rg 0'', Stat 4, Rst Df

   Not the best, but in a side case she could engage something that wants to sceme or something. WIth a damage profile of 1/2/3 never really something I want to use. Dont get her that close, she doesn't need the hugs, trust me. The trigger is kind of weird with Jack. On a ram, if the enemy has an attached Upgrade. They either discard it or suffer 2/3/4 damage and gain injured +2. This does seem strong but this is literally the only crew you don't want to get rid of their upgrades in. I have used it once in all of M3E to get rid of Ruthless on a Rooster Rider and I don't know if that was the right choice. You want the draws you get from those models for Torment and don't want to give them the ability to get off their upgrades.

Projected Voice: Rg 10'', Stat 4 with mask, Rst Wp:

    Generally with Ligeia my thoughts go like this: Is she safe and are there enemy models inside of her aura? No -> Move her, often twice. Yes -> Use this. Target their lowest Wp Model, with stat 4 it usually won't go through, and hope for moderate damage. The builtin stagger is insane if you get it because Ligeia really does not need to actively do anything at all. So if you don't hit, too bad, doesn't matter. If you do hit, you just dished out 2/3/4 damage and have staggered one or more models.

Ligeia is really strong. Your opponent will target her and you want her to survive, so keep her alive.

Now for Jacks Henchman:

Montressor

Wd 10, Df 6, Wp 5, Mv 5, Sz 3:

I think that this is the reason people think the tormented are a Bubble crew. He has a really good bubble for this crew, is very dificult to kill and deals damage like crazy. His main problem is that he is slow, He doesn't have a single trick that moves himself. Gone is that nimble from M2e. I usually try to use Jack to set him up turn 1 and then he just stands in the middle of the board and locks it down. Oh and how he locks it down.

Terrifying (11):

    Same as with Jack. This provides quite a base defense for Montressor but don't count on it stopping anything.

Hard to Wound:

    This is really nice as a defensive things since with his 10 Wounds it upps the number of hits he can take by quite a bit.

Suffocation:

    Now we start with his bubbles: Enemy models with staggered that start their Activation within 6'' suffer 1 damage. This is nice in general since it is irresistable damage and is especially nice against hard to kill models.

Hanging Ropes:

    This is incredibly good. If your opponent has condition removal, they first need to kill Montressor. His pull tricks combined with this aura is why opponents that are in the bubble will almost never be able to get out of it again.

Torment:

    Same ability as always. I wont go over this anymore from now on. Every tormented Model has it.

Demise (Eternal):

    This is the big one. Once per turn when Montressor dies, you can discard a card and he heals 4. Combined with the tormented draw engine, your opponent has to kill Montressor twice. That means getting through terrifying twice and then flipping with htw again. Also, if he died once this turn already, use Soulstones to keep him alive if necessary. Having your opponent almost kill him and then resetting the once per turn is amazing.

Now for the backside of the card:

Noose: Rg 1'', Stat 6 with built in Mask, Targeting Mv

    This attack is amazing. Stat 6 against Movement means that once again you are hitting at stat 8 if the enemy is staggered and while the damage profile is average at 2/3/4, the triggers are where it is at with this attack. The builtin Stagger is the most reliable way to dish out staggered in the crew and should always be the main focus to get out of Montressors activations. The seccond trigger is Excecute and Montressor shares it with Jack. This trigger I usually use later in the turn/game with Montressor and mostly to actually get rid of key Models or to get the last cards out of my opponents hand. Also this is quite fun in Henchman hardcore games where not many people bring more than 2 or 3 stones and will most of the time have to discard for it. The last trigger is Weigh down which makes the attack do 3/4/5 if the enemy has an upgrade attached. This is good but I only really use it if I flip a ram and the enemy is already staggered.

Toss the Noose: Rg shoot 10'', Stat 6 with built in Ram, Rst Df

    If they are far away, just throw the noose. This attack has a good damage profile at 2/3/4 but once again nothing extraordinary. It always gives staggered which is really useful. Basically Montressor really does not like you moving. The built in Pull and Drag trigger pushes the enemy 3'' towards Montressor and often into that bubble they really dont want to be in. The delay trigger is also really nice, giving out slow on a crow, but I usually just take it as it comes up since I want the crows for executes and such.

Cursed to Watch: Rg 10'', Stat 6, Tn 10

    This is a handy Techpiece in some situations but i generally don't use it too often. It is really funny to use this on a Jakuna to Lure 3 or 4 times in two activations.

Asphixiation: pulse 6'', stat 6, Tn 12

    More tarpit from Montressor here. Deals 1 damage to every enemy model within 6 that has staggered and on a crow an additional damage to every model that has staggered. That means that on a model that has staggered and an upgrade, Montressor deals up to 3 damage to that Model without it ever making a flip.

Montressor is generally a really good tarpit model and in my opinion the reason why Jack daw is seen as such a bubble crew. Of course that is a good reason. He is not the fastest to get to where he wants to be so he usually needs a bit of help setting up.

Now for the base of the crew, the Guilty.

Wd 6, Df 6, Wp 4, Mv 5, Sz 2

Already with slightly above average stats, the guilty are the punching bags of the Crew. I always take 1 to beat up turn 1 to get the on your heels triggers in and then charge into the enemy lines and die (in his activation in the seccond turn he usually has 2 wounds remaining). A seccond Guilty i sometimes to sceme with or to guard my backline since they can comfortably annoy most scemerunners in the game. They wont take them out but can keep them annoyed until someone else gets there.

Hard to Wound:

    Nice defensive tech. Always nice to see on a 5ss model.

Demise (No rest for the wicked):

    The reason the enemy does not want to kill them. The model that kills the guilty gets the Punish the Wicked Upgrade. As long as the model with that upgrade is in play, my hand size is one higher and the model gets a demise that when it dies, gives me a new Guilty.

Guilty as Charged:

    This is the reason the Jack crew is fast and why it is as good as it is. This lets friendly tormented Models treat this model as enemy for the sake of Abilities, triggers and actions. This means that Jack and the hanged can teleport to them, all of the tormented can draw of hitting them if they have a curse attachend to them. The Dead Outlaw can drop enemy sceme markers of them usw. Basically when you look for interesting interactions and find a model that says enemy only, ask yourself whether or not you can abuse that in some way. Note however that this can not be used to blast off of the the guilty since they are simultaneously enemy and friendly.

Agony: Rg 1'', Stat 5, Rst Mv

    With a damage profile of 2/3/4 quite good for a 5ss model and the fact that it is resisted by Mv makes it a potential Stat 7 attack. The stagered trigger is nice and I sometimes cheat for it but I generally like to use my masks for on your heels triggers.

Feed on Grief: Rg 8, Stat 5, Rst Wp

    A little bit weaker damage profile with 2/2/4 but the fact that it gets a + flip makes it quite good. The heal rarely comes up but is nice when it does. I usually try to have them reposition better for my movement shennanigans rather than attack but it can be usefull.

Share Guilt: Rg 8, Stat 5, Tn 12, Rst Wp

   Because the model wasn't good enough it also has a bonus action that makes your enemy discard. Also, and this is most often used against either targets of the hanged or models that come with opponents upgrades (ew, I know, those exist), they also get staggered if they have one. the Crow trigger is mostly usefull to get the torment draw in but if I have to cheat for it I only do that if I need to heal daw since i want to keep my crows otherwhise.

The Guilty are incredibly good models for the cost of 5 ss and can take a few hits. If they die they often have already done their ss in worth and then the enemy also gets the best curse in the entire Tormented crew.

Hanged

Wd 8, Df 4, Wp 6, Mv 4, Sz 2

These are the main beaters of Jacks crew and they are really good. They have some rather unconventional defensive tech, which sometimes makes the enemy try to kill them early. While they can and will die, the enemy has usually put way more recourses in than they should have. While often people remark that their weakness is their Mv 4, I think that does not really matter since they are insanely fast models for reasons I will get into later.

Terrifying (12):

    I have gone over this a few times now and not much changes with it here. It is quite a good defensive ability and 12 is a good stat for it.

Incorporeal:

    They Ignore everything while moving and reduce any damage they take from attacks by 1 to a minimum of 0. This is once again a really good defensive tech since they can run through walls and models, but it also means that they will never block the path for allied or enemy models to move.

Forever Doomed:

    This is one of the more interesting abilities in the game. This means that while fighting a Hanged, your enemy has no red and two black jokers in their deck and you have 2 red Jokers in your hand. It also means that if you draw the black joker, you just got a red one that is limited to one model.

Attuned:

    Because it wasn't good enough otherwise, it also has attuned. This is usefull for triggers, especially on your heels, but also for defense, reducing by 2/3/4 together with incorporeal.

Dead Man's Collar: Rg 1, Stat 6 with built in ram, Rst Mv

    Giving his best immitation of the boss himself, The hanged also can hit with stat 8 if the enemy is staggered. the damage profile of 2/3/4 is this time made to be 3/4/5 by the built in trigger that the enemy has to have an upgrade on for. Making the enemy discard if they are staggered is also pretty neat. The Tome trigger is nice but I generally try to stay away from sceme marker based sceme since the hanged are the only models apart from the gunslingers that can drop them without blowing an Ap for it. The stagger trigger is quite nice, giving you another way to slow your enemy down.

Toss the Noose: Rg 10, Stat 6, Rst Df

    This time impersonating Montressor, the hanged also throws his rope. Damage profile of 2/3/4 is really nice and the automatic staggered is great. Now for the best trigger in the crew. On your Heels. This places you into base contact with the enemy at a range of 10'' which means that when targeting a 50mm Model it can place itself at 13'' - 14'' range. If there is no usable enemy model for this, no worries, just use a guilty.

Horrifying Whispers: Rg 10, Stat 6, Rst Wp

    This deals out the Upgrade the Hanged have. While it is the worst curse the tormented have, it is still really nice since it is essentially free. The curse essentially says that the enemy takes 2 irreducable damage at the start of its activation and discards a card to get rid of it or the enemy discards a card at the end of the activation and you get to push it 3'' in any direction, usually towards your cluster. It also has two really good triggers. On your Heels is once again insane with a teleport range of up to 14'' and the mental trauma gets rid of more cards in the enemy hand or deals 3 damage. It often has the same effect as an execute although at a lessened effect.

Enthropic curse: aura 4'', Stat 6, Rst 12

    Because they need more utility and annoyance to the enemy, the hanged now also give the Tormented anti heal.

This model will in total get rid of 2 - 3 cards of the enemies hand in an activation, can survive a lot of hits and can basically get anywhere where the enemy or my guilty are. I often use them to get a few hits in and dish out an upgrade early and then go after the enemy sceme runners, kill them and then sceme myself. Be carefull where you place them because if they end up alone, they are very slow and will not do anything for the rest of the game.

Jakuna Ubume

This is the seccond Tarpit in the crew. Jakuna Ubume is quite survivable and her lure is very bad for models with high movement which is generally a weakpoint for the crew. She binds into the second kind of tactic in the Crew which is playing around hazardous terrain. It is mostly on the ressers side and I take it usually when I see a big part of terrain in the middle that is not blocking.

Wd 7, Df 5, Wp 6, Mv 5, Sz 2

Generally, Jakuna has pretty average Stats. Having 6 Wp is nice, but she does have only 7 Wd to a SS cost of 8. She makes up for this however with quite a bit of defensive tech.

Vengeance:

    Jakuna is a ping model. She tries to make the enemy take damage outside of her own turn and then finish them on her turn. This anility ties into that. Whenever something hits her, she hits back.

Serene Countenance:

    Her main defense. Anything attacking her has a minus flip to the attack. While focussing is a way around this, the enemy just used 2 Ap to hit once and took quite some ping damage in return as we will se in a bit. This ties into the rest of the crew since this way the enemy loses either the opportunity to cheat or an Ap to try and hit you, losing more recourses.

Incorporeal:

    With her, reducing all damage by one is quite a big thing. She does not care as much about getting hit as other models and essentially gives you one of the damage she would take back. The fact that she can run through terrain is nice, but doesn't come up as much as with other models such as Jakuna Ubume. The fact that she is ignored by other models when moving is big however because her 50mm base can easily get in the way.

Tear Appart: Rg 1, Stat 6, Rst Df

    Nice attack which, for once in this crew actually targets the enemy Df. Stat 6 is great and the 2/3/5 damage profile is slightly better then what Jack is used to. Her Mask triggers are great. You are comming with me is amazing if she is out of position or to get an enemy out of position. Also, since it moves the enemy through her aura, they take terrain damage. Stagger is nice, but usually if they are close enough to Jakuna, they should already be staggered. Feast of vengeance is great since it can restore half of Jacks health, but it comes up rarely since the enemy will usually try not to get his smaller models into engagment with Jakuna.

Projected Voice: Rg 10, Stat 5, Rst Wp

    Really nice attack. 2/3/4 damage is average. But I often find myself focussing for the straight flip so I can cheat for moderate damage. the Blast is nice and pushing more then 1 Model around in range of Jakunas aura ups the blast damage to 2 and the damage profile to 3/4/5 which is really nice.

Lure: Rg 12, Stat 7, Tn 12, Rst Wp

    Stat 7 Lures are amazing. Combined with Jakunas Drowning aura, this can even deal damage. This is the main reason to play Jakuna in Jacks crew since Models such as Montressor can be slow to set up in the middle and she helps a lot with that. Together, Jakuna and Montressor can essentially Lock down an 8 - 10'' Bubble in the middle of the board.

Drowning Aura: Aura 3'', Stat 7, Tn 12

    This is amazing. Every single of Jakunas Attacks has some way to move the enemy, which then doubles as a Critical hit trigger and since she has Serene Countenance, If the enemy wants to focus to hit her, they will take 3 damage if they deal damage just for focusing and hitting alone. I usually try to get it first turn and after that I will cheat if I get something under a 5. This is worth it.

Drowned

Wd 7, Df 4, Wp 5, Mv 4, Sz 2

Jakunas best friends are the drowned. The other model Jack shares with the Urami crew, this model is great. It is the slowest Model in the crew but it can be used quite comfortably as a flanker that maybe does a sceme or two and cuts off someone else. It is great at slowing the enemy by staggering them and being a general pain.

Vengeance +1

    Same as Jakuna, they hit back. This is the first of a few reason why they are Mele monsters and can easily ocupy Models much more expensive than their lowly 6 SS

Riptide:

    All blast markers they drop are now Hazardous terrain markers. It deals 1 damage and gives Staggered, which is amazing. Note that when the enemy is affected by both this and Jakunas aura, they will take 2 damage, since this has 2 effects and therefore does not have the same effect as Jakunas Aura.

Hard to Wound:

    Another great defense tech

Combat Finesse:

    You do not want to be in Mele with this thing. You cannot cheat, it has hard to wound. You will almost always get weak damage upon which it avenges itself.

Depths of Malifaux:

    It is essentially always on home turf. While not quite as good as Incorporeal, still nice since a lot of terrain does not matter to me.

Anchor: Rg 1, Stat 6, Df

    Stat 6 on a 6ss Model is great and while this does sadly target Df, whith a damage spread of 2/3/5 this is a very good attack compared to the cost. The first trigger can make it 3/4/6 which is great but also quite conditional and the seccond trigger is amazing. If you have terrain set up, this will deal 3/4/6 damage, give out staggered and stunned. Their model now can do almost nothing.

Projectile Vomit: Rg 8, Stat 5, Mv

    This is a great option. If there is an enemy Model that has staggered, this becomes stat 7 and I often focus for it since you really want moderate if not severe damage with this. The damage spread is 1/1blast/1, 2 blast. The blast is what you are going for with this action. It will give out distracted and Injured to the enemy models in blast range which is big. The first trigger gives you an additional damage, which usually is a nice bonus but does not do that much. The seccond trigger however is amazing. This means that you just hit maybe 2 models with blast, giving them injured and distracted and then you push even more models around, giving them staggered and 1 damage, while getting them out of position. This attack is amazing.

Startle: Rg 8, Stat 5, Rst Wp

    This really rounds out the model. It does just give out staggered but is great if you plan to use Projectile vomit with it since now you can hit one model with stat 7 against mv, Usually this will be the slowest model and often hits mv 4 models. An advantage of 3 is big and nothing to scoff at especially if you focused.

Crooked Man

Wd 8, Df 4, Wp 5, Mv 4, Sz 2

Jakunas other friend. In my oppinion on par with the drowned in powerlevel but the ss cost that is one higher makes it that i don't take them often and more into heavy blasting crews or if the enemy has very fast models and i need to have jakuna stagger them.

Shafted:

    This is an crazy good ability. As long as this model is in LoS of Jakunas terrain, it now also staggers, which is really bit, especially if Montressor is nearby.

Hard to Wound:

    Nice defense. At already quite a high Wd count, this is just nice.

Blast resistance +2:

    This is really nice against heavy blasting crews such as wong.

Depths of Malifaux:

    the same as with the drowned.

Mining Tools: Rg 1, Stat 6, Rst Df

    Another 2/3/4 attack. This is a good attack in general and not having defense triggers is very good. The weigh down trigger is good as always but once again nothing to gun for. The delay trigger however is great against key enemy models. Another way to take away enemy options.

Earthquake: Rg 8, Stat 6, Rst Mv

    Another attack resisted by Mv which we love. 2/2/3 damage is nice and the fact that it will always blast is amazing. This is the exact attack that you need against swarm crews such as hamelin. Dishing out mass staggered is really good.

Malifaux mining law is great against certain crews and into certain Scemepools but because of his mv 4 he is not really a sceme running model, which is kind of a shame.

Dead Outlaw

Wd 7, Df 4, Wp 5, Mv 5, Sz 2

The one Tormented Model that I don't have. I have however tried them in games where we allowed proxys and they are kind of niche. Their statblock is good but nothing amazing. This model is definitely something you want to use to pick of small enemy models that try to stay in the backline. Example would be our very own Jakuna or Colettes doves usw. Also it can provide fire support into clusters while running over the flanks trying to score later game scemes.

Hard to Wound:

    Once again good defense.

Cursed Bullets:

    Usually this reads "this model ignores Friendly fire" when playing Jack. Pretty much every model that is anywhere near one of mine will be tormented.

Gunfighter:

    Good to have, although not something you want to use since you dont want them in melee.

Run n Gun:

    The reason he is usable as a scemer. Have him go over the flank and charge and then shoot towards the middle. he is not the fastest but will do some work.

Collier Revolver: Rg 12, Stat 5, Rst Df

    The highest range attack in the tormented crew. 2/3/4 damage as always but all the triggers are generally good. The drop it trigger is great with a Prospector since he can shoot a guilty first turn, make it drop a marker and then have the prospector pick it up, nettoing 2ss turn 1 if you do it twice. Combine that with Wanted criminal and you also draw cards like crazy.

At Gunpoint:

    Essentially an obey but the target needs to be near an enemy sceme marker. Great Action for a 6ss model and the possibility of staggering is just amazing.

Covetous Craving:

    Essentially a way to either store an action on a model for the next turn or to get rid of enemy sceme markers efficiently.

Too greedy to die:

    Great bonus, another way to move around you models and have even more movement tricks in the bag.

 

 

That covers all of the tormented. I will in the future add Sceme and strategy remarks for the crew and some of the dumb shenannigans you can do with the guilty. Also there will be a part of how to counter him and how to counter the counters. Have fun seing the life go out of the opponents eyes.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Favilludo said:

There has been some discussion about Jack Daw on the forum and in my LGS (mostly thanks to me🙃) lately so I am gonna put what I learned about the crew playing about 10 - 15 games in m3e With him. I have a few games in with Tormented in Henchman Hardcore in as well and Montressor is quite good there but it is not what I will focus on here.

Lets start with the one and only:

Jack daw

Df: 5, Wp: 7, Mv: 5, Sz: 2
Pretty average statline, the Wp 7 is nice but nothing special for a master.

Undying and Injustice:
At only 6 Wounds, Jack is the master in M3E with the lowest woundcount. Undying however allows him to discard a card every time he takes damage to change it to 1 irreducable damage. Note that this is not a reduction, the damage simply becomes 1. Injustice is the flipside of that coin. Whenever a tormented model draws a card, he can instead heal 1. These two abilities make him insanely survivable and very hard to kill. Injustice is quite tricky to get used to since you have to decide wether you want to keep jack up and running or you want to have more recources in hand. I  generally try to have a full hand earlier in the turn. Later it usually starts to crystalize wether or not i will need to draw more cards or if I am fine with the cards I have in my hand. I do however generally try to give him another way to heal.

Terrifying (12):
His main way of defense. Whenever an enemy model targets Jack daw with an attack action, they first need to pass a WP duel Tn 12 or just dont do the action. This combined with Disturbing whispers, which lowers Wp by -1 means that the average model has to flip an 8 or higher to even try to hit Jack. This is less than a 50% chance to even try to hit. While they can cheat for it, that is the exact thing that jack wants, getting rid of your hand. Additionally if they do get through it, you just got rid of a moderate or higher card in their deck. While this does sound like a small thing, it will rack up with how many models with terrifying the tormented have.

Torment:

This is the tormented keyword ability. At the end of an activation, if this model dealt damage to a model with an upgrade attached, you draw a card. This has two parts. First you give out curses to enemies and then draw cards if you hit them. Seccondly, this makes your enemy think twice about bringing upgrades since you will draw from that. Also this gives you a natural advantage against any summoners since they will usualy hand out summon upgrades.
Honestly I feel like this ability is underestemated. While on one model it does not seem like all that much, from turn 2 on i usualy draw between 3 and 6 cards a turn from this ability alone.

Disturbing whispers:

The Tormented often get refered to as a bubble crew. This is Jack Daws bubble and in my oppinion one of the stronger in the crew. It lowers the Wp of enemy models within 6'' of Jack. This means that most of your ranged attacks and some of your mele attacks are more likely to hit, your enemy is less likely to hit most of your models because of Terrifying and your pulses get better. While this does seem minor, it does pretty much kill 4 cards in your opponents deck or hand for every Wp flip they make.

Now to his back:

Dead Man's Collar: range 1 mele, stat 6, resisted by Mv.
    With a damage profile of 2/3/4 this is a pretty average attack if your opponent does not have staggered. I usually dont use this attack if they don't have staggered because his cast is simply better in that case because it gives them a curse. If they are staggered however, this attack becomes insane. First of it targets Mv. This means not a single defensive trigger in the game. Since they have staggered, this is basically stat 8 which is insane. They always have to discard a card and then come the triggers. On a ram it becomes a 4/5/6 damage profile which is crazy good. On a crow they essentially just discarded 2 cards or one card and a soulstone or you got rid of a model. This is also part of one of the tactics that I like to run with Jack. Bring a load of soulstones and get rid of their hand as fast as possible. Then towards the end of the turn, start spamming execute triggers with Jack and Montressor and kill those core models. I rarely use the Punishment trigger on this model unless I already kill their model with the base damage. If I need it, I go for Supressed Memories.

Speaking of which: Suppressed Memories: range 8'', stat 6 with built in crow trigger, resisted by Wp.

    While the damage profile of 2/3/3 is not that good, thatt is not why you use this Action. This is Jacks way of cursing enemy models. The Curse of Injustice gives the model it is attached to staggered in the start phase and they now have the tormented keyword. This is everything you want. While not that flashy, they now have every single drawback you need on them. Why that is I will go into later. The built in Punishment trigger is awesome. Two things to remember here: Their cursed models are tormented and don't get to resist this and while it is awesome to get your own Models into position it is usually better to get theirs in the wrong position. The seccond trigger is On Your Heels and Jack shares this with his best friends the Hanged. This trigger is amazing and often worth stoning for. It can move you up to 11'' against a 50mm model and you are now engaging something usually in the enemy backline. Also, since you can use this while engaged, it is also an excellent tool to leave your enemies beaters somewhere they dont want to be or get Jack out of a tough spot. Additionally, this can also be used on your own guilty and you dont even have to give them the cuse because of the way their Guilty as charged ability works. Usually I use this in the first turn to get Jack 10'' forwards for one Ap but it is also pretty handy to get him out of a fray.

Drawn to Betrayal: range 16'', Stat 6, Tn 12, Rst Wp.

    The first of his two bonus actions. I wish I could use those as normal actions honestly, they are so good. At a range of 16'', this pushes a Tormented model 6'' towards another tormented Model. Tricks like this are why I don't think that his crew is slow. While you will usually use this on your own Models, don't forget that it can be used on the enemy. It is hillarious to get their sniper into mele with this combined with a lure or two from Jakuna.

Whispered Truths: pulse 3'', Stat 6, Tn 12.

    This action is insane and I try to use it at least once per activation after turn 2. If used in the right moment it can easily affect 3 to 4 models. They then have to do a TN 13 Wp duel (remember that they get -1 to Wp as well) or gain Slow. This means that you just got rid of 3-4 Ap generally from a beater or they have used 3 - 4 of their good cards. Even if this is out of their deck, with an average Wp of 5 (now 4) they need a 9 or higher and trust me, this is not what they want to use it for. Even if they flip or cheat to prevent the slow, Jack has 3 Ap so you can just use it again. This combined with Terrifying and other abilities similar is why enemies usually think that they are flipping really badly. They usually either use one of their high cards either out of their deck or their hand for this, which feels bad, or they fail it, which feels even worse. It's a lose - lose situation for them, or a win - win for you. Then, because that opression is not enough, they also built in a trigger to get you the tormented draw. On a crow, every Enemy model within 3'' with a cursed Upgrade suffers 2 damage. No resist, nothing. Among Jack, the hanged and the guilty, I often dish out 5 or more upgrades in a game and this trigger usually deals between 2 and 8 damage.

Fickle Tormentor: pulse 4'', no flip.

    Draw a card for each enemy model in range with a Cursed Upgrade. No flip whatsoever. Worst case you draw a card for a guilty in range since they can be counted as enemy and usually have a curse after turn 1. I however often find myself drawing 3-4 cards from this especially if my enemy plays a fighter crew. Remember that in a pickle, this can also heal Jack for insane ammounts in a heartbeat but I generally use other ways of healing for that.

In my oppinion Jack is incredible as a master. While he does take quite some getting used to especially because of the wound situation he is very survivable and even if the enemy kills him, he usually takes so much to take down they will have lost an insane ammount of recourses. Important with him is in my oppinion to use him more as a utility piece than a beater. In general I use him as a feelbad for my opponent. If i have the choice between taking one of their models or slowing more than one or getting rid of their hand, it is generally better to minimise their options than to kill. With him you want to think how you can make your opponent have as little options as possible.

Now for his Totem:

Lady Ligeia

Wd 4, Df 5, Wp 4, Mv 5, Sz 2.

While her stat line is quite good for a 2 SS Model, she is usually the squishiest model in the crew. She does have some defensive tech and can survive a hit. But as soon as it is 2 hits, she is gone. Keep her allive. She is insanely important for the crew since she takes away your opponents ability to be sure of anything. Cheating is the strongest thing you can do in the game since it guarantees certain hits and you just double the cost of it as long as she is nearby. We'll get to that.

Incorporeal:

    Her defense: She ignores any terrain and Models while moving and is unaffected by Hazardous Terrain. Also this reduces any damage she takes from attack actions by 1 to a minimum of 0. While this does help her live through blasts usw. It is not why this is such a good defensive tech. This can be used to get her out of line of seight and out of charge ranger of almost any model. Combined with Mv 5 this means that she can hide behind walls, inside of dense terrain usw. Use this to keep her out of seigth and move her into the bubble when you have started egaging your enemy.

Torment:

    We talked about this with Jack. On ligeia, this will rarely be usefull since she rarely if ever attacks but hey, nice to have.

Betrayal:

    This is the sole reason she is good. Enemy models within 6'' must discard a card to cheat fate. Want to get through terrifying and flip badly? costs 2 cards now. Want to guarantee an attack from hitting? Costst 2 cards now. This means that without carddraw, they can cheat a grand total of 3 times a turn. This is actually even with carddraw quite an accurate number since you make them discard with pretty much every model in your crew. If they use those 3 times early, they now have an empty hand, bring on the executes. If they don't, make them discard before they can actually cheat. Having cards in hand while your opponent does not is pretty much the most powerful situation to be in. You can guarantee your abilities to hit while they have to gamble on every single Ap. And even if they hit their attack, you can then cheat to cancel it.

Insignificant:

    She costs 2 SS, what did you expect.

Now for the flipside of the card.

Talons: Rg 0'', Stat 4, Rst Df

   Not the best, but in a side case she could engage something that wants to sceme or something. WIth a damage profile of 1/2/3 never really something I want to use. Dont get her that close, she doesn't need the hugs, trust me. The trigger is kind of weird with Jack. On a ram, if the enemy has an attached Upgrade. They either discard it or suffer 2/3/4 damage and gain injured +2. This does seem strong but this is literally the only crew you don't want to get rid of their upgrades in. I have used it once in all of M3E to get rid of Ruthless on a Rooster Rider and I don't know if that was the right choice. You want the draws you get from those models for Torment and don't want to give them the ability to get off their upgrades.

Projected Voice: Rg 10'', Stat 4 with mask, Rst Wp:

    Generally with Ligeia my thoughts go like this: Is she safe and are there enemy models inside of her aura? No -> Move her, often twice. Yes -> Use this. Target their lowest Wp Model, with stat 4 it usually won't go through, and hope for moderate damage. The builtin stagger is insane if you get it because Ligeia really does not need to actively do anything at all. So if you don't hit, too bad, doesn't matter. If you do hit, you just dished out 2/3/4 damage and have staggered one or more models.

Ligeia is really strong. Your opponent will target her and you want her to survive, so keep her alive.

Now for Jacks Henchman:

Montressor

Wd 10, Df 6, Wp 5, Mv 5, Sz 3:

I think that this is the reason people think the tormented are a Bubble crew. He has a really good bubble for this crew, is very dificult to kill and deals damage like crazy. His main problem is that he is slow, He doesn't have a single trick that moves himself. Gone is that nimble from M2e. I usually try to use Jack to set him up turn 1 and then he just stands in the middle of the board and locks it down. Oh and how he locks it down.

Terrifying (11):

    Same as with Jack. This provides quite a base defense for Montressor but don't count on it stopping anything.

Hard to Wound:

    This is really nice as a defensive things since with his 10 Wounds it upps the number of hits he can take by quite a bit.

Suffocation:

    Now we start with his bubbles: Enemy models with staggered that start their Activation within 6'' suffer 1 damage. This is nice in general since it is irresistable damage and is especially nice against hard to kill models.

Hanging Ropes:

    This is incredibly good. If your opponent has condition removal, they first need to kill Montressor. His pull tricks combined with this aura is why opponents that are in the bubble will almost never be able to get out of it again.

Torment:

    Same ability as always. I wont go over this anymore from now on. Every tormented Model has it.

Demise (Eternal):

    This is the big one. Once per turn when Montressor dies, you can discard a card and he heals 4. Combined with the tormented draw engine, your opponent has to kill Montressor twice. That means getting through terrifying twice and then flipping with htw again. Also, if he died once this turn already, use Soulstones to keep him alive if necessary. Having your opponent almost kill him and then resetting the once per turn is amazing.

Now for the backside of the card:

Noose: Rg 1'', Stat 6 with built in Mask, Targeting Mv

    This attack is amazing. Stat 6 against Movement means that once again you are hitting at stat 8 if the enemy is staggered and while the damage profile is average at 2/3/4, the triggers are where it is at with this attack. The builtin Stagger is the most reliable way to dish out staggered in the crew and should always be the main focus to get out of Montressors activations. The seccond trigger is Excecute and Montressor shares it with Jack. This trigger I usually use later in the turn/game with Montressor and mostly to actually get rid of key Models or to get the last cards out of my opponents hand. Also this is quite fun in Henchman hardcore games where not many people bring more than 2 or 3 stones and will most of the time have to discard for it. The last trigger is Weigh down which makes the attack do 3/4/5 if the enemy has an upgrade attached. This is good but I only really use it if I flip a ram and the enemy is already staggered.

Toss the Noose: Rg shoot 10'', Stat 6 with built in Ram, Rst Df

    If they are far away, just throw the noose. This attack has a good damage profile at 2/3/4 but once again nothing extraordinary. It always gives staggered which is really useful. Basically Montressor really does not like you moving. The built in Pull and Drag trigger pushes the enemy 3'' towards Montressor and often into that bubble they really dont want to be in. The delay trigger is also really nice, giving out slow on a crow, but I usually just take it as it comes up since I want the crows for executes and such.

Cursed to Watch: Rg 10'', Stat 6, Tn 10

    This is a handy Techpiece in some situations but i generally don't use it too often. It is really funny to use this on a Jakuna to Lure 3 or 4 times in two activations.

Asphixiation: pulse 6'', stat 6, Tn 12

    More tarpit from Montressor here. Deals 1 damage to every enemy model within 6 that has staggered and on a crow an additional damage to every model that has staggered. That means that on a model that has staggered and an upgrade, Montressor deals up to 3 damage to that Model without it ever making a flip.

Montressor is generally a really good tarpit model and in my opinion the reason why Jack daw is seen as such a bubble crew. Of course that is a good reason. He is not the fastest to get to where he wants to be so he usually needs a bit of help setting up.

Now for the base of the crew, the Guilty.

Wd 6, Df 6, Wp 4, Mv 5, Sz 2

Already with slightly above average stats, the guilty are the punching bags of the Crew. I always take 1 to beat up turn 1 to get the on your heels triggers in and then charge into the enemy lines and die (in his activation in the seccond turn he usually has 2 wounds remaining). A seccond Guilty i sometimes to sceme with or to guard my backline since they can comfortably annoy most scemerunners in the game. They wont take them out but can keep them annoyed until someone else gets there.

Hard to Wound:

    Nice defensive tech. Always nice to see on a 5ss model.

Demise (No rest for the wicked):

    The reason the enemy does not want to kill them. The model that kills the guilty gets the Punish the Wicked Upgrade. As long as the model with that upgrade is in play, my hand size is one higher and the model gets a demise that when it dies, gives me a new Guilty.

Guilty as Charged:

    This is the reason the Jack crew is fast and why it is as good as it is. This lets friendly tormented Models treat this model as enemy for the sake of Abilities, triggers and actions. This means that Jack and the hanged can teleport to them, all of the tormented can draw of hitting them if they have a curse attachend to them. The Dead Outlaw can drop enemy sceme markers of them usw. Basically when you look for interesting interactions and find a model that says enemy only, ask yourself whether or not you can abuse that in some way. Note however that this can not be used to blast off of the the guilty since they are simultaneously enemy and friendly.

Agony: Rg 1'', Stat 5, Rst Mv

    With a damage profile of 2/3/4 quite good for a 5ss model and the fact that it is resisted by Mv makes it a potential Stat 7 attack. The stagered trigger is nice and I sometimes cheat for it but I generally like to use my masks for on your heels triggers.

Feed on Grief: Rg 8, Stat 5, Rst Wp

    A little bit weaker damage profile with 2/2/4 but the fact that it gets a + flip makes it quite good. The heal rarely comes up but is nice when it does. I usually try to have them reposition better for my movement shennanigans rather than attack but it can be usefull.

Share Guilt: Rg 8, Stat 5, Tn 12, Rst Wp

   Because the model wasn't good enough it also has a bonus action that makes your enemy discard. Also, and this is most often used against either targets of the hanged or models that come with opponents upgrades (ew, I know, those exist), they also get staggered if they have one. the Crow trigger is mostly usefull to get the torment draw in but if I have to cheat for it I only do that if I need to heal daw since i want to keep my crows otherwhise.

The Guilty are incredibly good models for the cost of 5 ss and can take a few hits. If they die they often have already done their ss in worth and then the enemy also gets the best curse in the entire Tormented crew.

Hanged

Wd 8, Df 4, Wp 6, Mv 4, Sz 2

These are the main beaters of Jacks crew and they are really good. They have some rather unconventional defensive tech, which sometimes makes the enemy try to kill them early. While they can and will die, the enemy has usually put way more recourses in than they should have. While often people remark that their weakness is their Mv 4, I think that does not really matter since they are insanely fast models for reasons I will get into later.

Terrifying (12):

    I have gone over this a few times now and not much changes with it here. It is quite a good defensive ability and 12 is a good stat for it.

Incorporeal:

    They Ignore everything while moving and reduce any damage they take from attacks by 1 to a minimum of 0. This is once again a really good defensive tech since they can run through walls and models, but it also means that they will never block the path for allied or enemy models to move.

Forever Doomed:

    This is one of the more interesting abilities in the game. This means that while fighting a Hanged, your enemy has no red and two black jokers in their deck and you have 2 red Jokers in your hand. It also means that if you draw the black joker, you just got a red one that is limited to one model.

Attuned:

    Because it wasn't good enough otherwise, it also has attuned. This is usefull for triggers, especially on your heels, but also for defense, reducing by 2/3/4 together with incorporeal.

Dead Man's Collar: Rg 1, Stat 6 with built in ram, Rst Mv

    Giving his best immitation of the boss himself, The hanged also can hit with stat 8 if the enemy is staggered. the damage profile of 2/3/4 is this time made to be 3/4/5 by the built in trigger that the enemy has to have an upgrade on for. Making the enemy discard if they are staggered is also pretty neat. The Tome trigger is nice but I generally try to stay away from sceme marker based sceme since the hanged are the only models apart from the gunslingers that can drop them without blowing an Ap for it. The stagger trigger is quite nice, giving you another way to slow your enemy down.

Toss the Noose: Rg 10, Stat 6, Rst Df

    This time impersonating Montressor, the hanged also throws his rope. Damage profile of 2/3/4 is really nice and the automatic staggered is great. Now for the best trigger in the crew. On your Heels. This places you into base contact with the enemy at a range of 10'' which means that when targeting a 50mm Model it can place itself at 13'' - 14'' range. If there is no usable enemy model for this, no worries, just use a guilty.

Horrifying Whispers: Rg 10, Stat 6, Rst Wp

    This deals out the Upgrade the Hanged have. While it is the worst curse the tormented have, it is still really nice since it is essentially free. The curse essentially says that the enemy takes 2 irreducable damage at the start of its activation and discards a card to get rid of it or the enemy discards a card at the end of the activation and you get to push it 3'' in any direction, usually towards your cluster. It also has two really good triggers. On your Heels is once again insane with a teleport range of up to 14'' and the mental trauma gets rid of more cards in the enemy hand or deals 3 damage. It often has the same effect as an execute although at a lessened effect.

Enthropic curse: aura 4'', Stat 6, Rst 12

    Because they need more utility and annoyance to the enemy, the hanged now also give the Tormented anti heal.

This model will in total get rid of 2 - 3 cards of the enemies hand in an activation, can survive a lot of hits and can basically get anywhere where the enemy or my guilty are. I often use them to get a few hits in and dish out an upgrade early and then go after the enemy sceme runners, kill them and then sceme myself. Be carefull where you place them because if they end up alone, they are very slow and will not do anything for the rest of the game.

Jakuna Ubume

This is the seccond Tarpit in the crew. Jakuna Ubume is quite survivable and her lure is very bad for models with high movement which is generally a weakpoint for the crew. She binds into the second kind of tactic in the Crew which is playing around hazardous terrain. It is mostly on the ressers side and I take it usually when I see a big part of terrain in the middle that is not blocking.

Wd 7, Df 5, Wp 6, Mv 5, Sz 2

Generally, Jakuna has pretty average Stats. Having 6 Wp is nice, but she does have only 7 Wd to a SS cost of 8. She makes up for this however with quite a bit of defensive tech.

Vengeance:

    Jakuna is a ping model. She tries to make the enemy take damage outside of her own turn and then finish them on her turn. This anility ties into that. Whenever something hits her, she hits back.

Serene Countenance:

    Her main defense. Anything attacking her has a minus flip to the attack. While focussing is a way around this, the enemy just used 2 Ap to hit once and took quite some ping damage in return as we will se in a bit. This ties into the rest of the crew since this way the enemy loses either the opportunity to cheat or an Ap to try and hit you, losing more recourses.

Incorporeal:

    With her, reducing all damage by one is quite a big thing. She does not care as much about getting hit as other models and essentially gives you one of the damage she would take back. The fact that she can run through terrain is nice, but doesn't come up as much as with other models such as Jakuna Ubume. The fact that she is ignored by other models when moving is big however because her 50mm base can easily get in the way.

Tear Appart: Rg 1, Stat 6, Rst Df

    Nice attack which, for once in this crew actually targets the enemy Df. Stat 6 is great and the 2/3/5 damage profile is slightly better then what Jack is used to. Her Mask triggers are great. You are comming with me is amazing if she is out of position or to get an enemy out of position. Also, since it moves the enemy through her aura, they take terrain damage. Stagger is nice, but usually if they are close enough to Jakuna, they should already be staggered. Feast of vengeance is great since it can restore half of Jacks health, but it comes up rarely since the enemy will usually try not to get his smaller models into engagment with Jakuna.

Projected Voice: Rg 10, Stat 5, Rst Wp

    Really nice attack. 2/3/4 damage is average. But I often find myself focussing for the straight flip so I can cheat for moderate damage. the Blast is nice and pushing more then 1 Model around in range of Jakunas aura ups the blast damage to 2 and the damage profile to 3/4/5 which is really nice.

Lure: Rg 12, Stat 7, Tn 12, Rst Wp

    Stat 7 Lures are amazing. Combined with Jakunas Drowning aura, this can even deal damage. This is the main reason to play Jakuna in Jacks crew since Models such as Montressor can be slow to set up in the middle and she helps a lot with that. Together, Jakuna and Montressor can essentially Lock down an 8 - 10'' Bubble in the middle of the board.

Drowning Aura: Aura 3'', Stat 7, Tn 12

    This is amazing. Every single of Jakunas Attacks has some way to move the enemy, which then doubles as a Critical hit trigger and since she has Serene Countenance, If the enemy wants to focus to hit her, they will take 3 damage if they deal damage just for focusing and hitting alone. I usually try to get it first turn and after that I will cheat if I get something under a 5. This is worth it.

Drowned

Wd 7, Df 4, Wp 5, Mv 4, Sz 2

Jakunas best friends are the drowned. The other model Jack shares with the Urami crew, this model is great. It is the slowest Model in the crew but it can be used quite comfortably as a flanker that maybe does a sceme or two and cuts off someone else. It is great at slowing the enemy by staggering them and being a general pain.

Vengeance +1

    Same as Jakuna, they hit back. This is the first of a few reason why they are Mele monsters and can easily ocupy Models much more expensive than their lowly 6 SS

Riptide:

    All blast markers they drop are now Hazardous terrain markers. It deals 1 damage and gives Staggered, which is amazing. Note that when the enemy is affected by both this and Jakunas aura, they will take 2 damage, since this has 2 effects and therefore does not have the same effect as Jakunas Aura.

Hard to Wound:

    Another great defense tech

Combat Finesse:

    You do not want to be in Mele with this thing. You cannot cheat, it has hard to wound. You will almost always get weak damage upon which it avenges itself.

Depths of Malifaux:

    It is essentially always on home turf. While not quite as good as Incorporeal, still nice since a lot of terrain does not matter to me.

Anchor: Rg 1, Stat 6, Df

    Stat 6 on a 6ss Model is great and while this does sadly target Df, whith a damage spread of 2/3/5 this is a very good attack compared to the cost. The first trigger can make it 3/4/6 which is great but also quite conditional and the seccond trigger is amazing. If you have terrain set up, this will deal 3/4/6 damage, give out staggered and stunned. Their model now can do almost nothing.

Projectile Vomit: Rg 8, Stat 5, Mv

    This is a great option. If there is an enemy Model that has staggered, this becomes stat 7 and I often focus for it since you really want moderate if not severe damage with this. The damage spread is 1/1blast/1, 2 blast. The blast is what you are going for with this action. It will give out distracted and Injured to the enemy models in blast range which is big. The first trigger gives you an additional damage, which usually is a nice bonus but does not do that much. The seccond trigger however is amazing. This means that you just hit maybe 2 models with blast, giving them injured and distracted and then you push even more models around, giving them staggered and 1 damage, while getting them out of position. This attack is amazing.

Startle: Rg 8, Stat 5, Rst Wp

    This really rounds out the model. It does just give out staggered but is great if you plan to use Projectile vomit with it since now you can hit one model with stat 7 against mv, Usually this will be the slowest model and often hits mv 4 models. An advantage of 3 is big and nothing to scoff at especially if you focused.

Crooked Man

Wd 8, Df 4, Wp 5, Mv 4, Sz 2

Jakunas other friend. In my oppinion on par with the drowned in powerlevel but the ss cost that is one higher makes it that i don't take them often and more into heavy blasting crews or if the enemy has very fast models and i need to have jakuna stagger them.

Shafted:

    This is an crazy good ability. As long as this model is in LoS of Jakunas terrain, it now also staggers, which is really bit, especially if Montressor is nearby.

Hard to Wound:

    Nice defense. At already quite a high Wd count, this is just nice.

Blast resistance +2:

    This is really nice against heavy blasting crews such as wong.

Depths of Malifaux:

    the same as with the drowned.

Mining Tools: Rg 1, Stat 6, Rst Df

    Another 2/3/4 attack. This is a good attack in general and not having defense triggers is very good. The weigh down trigger is good as always but once again nothing to gun for. The delay trigger however is great against key enemy models. Another way to take away enemy options.

Earthquake: Rg 8, Stat 6, Rst Mv

    Another attack resisted by Mv which we love. 2/2/3 damage is nice and the fact that it will always blast is amazing. This is the exact attack that you need against swarm crews such as hamelin. Dishing out mass staggered is really good.

Malifaux mining law is great against certain crews and into certain Scemepools but because of his mv 4 he is not really a sceme running model, which is kind of a shame.

Dead Outlaw

Wd 7, Df 4, Wp 5, Mv 5, Sz 2

The one Tormented Model that I don't have. I have however tried them in games where we allowed proxys and they are kind of niche. Their statblock is good but nothing amazing. This model is definitely something you want to use to pick of small enemy models that try to stay in the backline. Example would be our very own Jakuna or Colettes doves usw. Also it can provide fire support into clusters while running over the flanks trying to score later game scemes.

Hard to Wound:

    Once again good defense.

Cursed Bullets:

    Usually this reads "this model ignores Friendly fire" when playing Jack. Pretty much every model that is anywhere near one of mine will be tormented.

Gunfighter:

    Good to have, although not something you want to use since you dont want them in melee.

Run n Gun:

    The reason he is usable as a scemer. Have him go over the flank and charge and then shoot towards the middle. he is not the fastest but will do some work.

Collier Revolver: Rg 12, Stat 5, Rst Df

    The highest range attack in the tormented crew. 2/3/4 damage as always but all the triggers are generally good. The drop it trigger is great with a Prospector since he can shoot a guilty first turn, make it drop a marker and then have the prospector pick it up, nettoing 2ss turn 1 if you do it twice. Combine that with Wanted criminal and you also draw cards like crazy.

At Gunpoint:

    Essentially an obey but the target needs to be near an enemy sceme marker. Great Action for a 6ss model and the possibility of staggering is just amazing.

Covetous Craving:

    Essentially a way to either store an action on a model for the next turn or to get rid of enemy sceme markers efficiently.

Too greedy to die:

    Great bonus, another way to move around you models and have even more movement tricks in the bag.

 

 

That covers all of the tormented. I will in the future add Sceme and strategy remarks for the crew and some of the dumb shenannigans you can do with the guilty. Also there will be a part of how to counter him and how to counter the counters. Have fun seing the life go out of the opponents eyes.

a lot of usless text that anyone can read in app, so better to make all shorter but with main features of keyword, models, combos; without description of all abilities and actions

[Adran]

20 minutes ago, Plaag said:

a lot of usless text that anyone can read in app, so better to make all shorter but with main features of keyword, models, combos; without description of all abilities and actions

I don't think I agree. Yes, if you are reading this next to the card, then you will see the same things, so there is superfluous text but if you are reading this not next to the cards it does really help to include context to what you are discussing. 

So whilst you may like a shorter guide that is more to the point, that's certainly not the only way to write one. And for people that are new to Jack it can often be useful to include more detailed explanation to the models abilities. 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

I don't think I agree. Yes, if you are reading this next to the card, then you will see the same things, so there is superfluous text but if you are reading this not next to the cards it does really help to include context to what you are discussing. 

So whilst you may like a shorter guide that is more to the point, that's certainly not the only way to write one. And for people that are new to Jack it can often be useful to include more detailed explanation to the models abilities. 

also people are watching for guides after watching cards, and such a big text just makes them bored, so trying to find some useful information is very hard

[Favilludo]

I know it is a bit long, its my first guide and i will continue to work on it. I just wanted to post it because i knew otherwhise it would never get finished

[Maniacal_cackle]

Awesome! I look forward to reading through this, looks really good

[Graf]

I largely have to agree with Plaag. But I still like that you've come forward with this thread and topic! I'm quite interested in different perspectives on Tormented, as I've started playing the crew myself recently. But even with this, it was a hard read for me. As Adran correctly stated, everyone has their own approach and a highly detailed style benefits people who come to the crew completly new. But I hope for stronger formating/editing. No complaint about the content! I can see little tricks and moves you've integrated, but they get lost in a wall of text.

I'm interested to see what you include for their shenanigans, as I'm sure I'm still missing many of them. Also list building into anything not 100% ideal for "standard" Tormented. That's also why I would encourage you to play Dead Outlaws more, they are awesome. I'm impatiently waiting for them to be sold locally, so I no longer have to borrow them.

[Saduhem]

Jack is one of my favorite masters but, after ~40 games in beta alone, and many more since then, there are a few unfortunate downsides, at least in my opinion:

• Jack is absolutely terrifying against people who are still new-ish to the game. 
• Jack is easy to tech against (And don't even consider declaring him vs Bayou or Ten Thunders). This creates a situation where you don't want to use him against new players, but you'll get teched against vs experienced players, especially if they're part of your meta and they expect Daw to begin with.
• Black Blood, Burning, Vengeance, Penetrating Stench, Ruthless, Poison, Unmade, Entropy, Stealth, Shockwaves, Misery, Stunned, Armor, any many more crew specific mechanics really, really hurt Jack. He's just not safe to declare unless you have some idea of what's coming.
• Many models don't really see play. You need to have an incredibly good reason to hire a Crooked Man, a Drowned, or a Dead Outlaw.
• A bone pile/sloth will usually be better hires overall. Healing is really good for Tormented. Condition removal is almost mandatory vs some Keywords.
• Tormented have a limited pool in which they're effective.

Tormented are capable of a ridiculous amount of tricks (I started one of the first threads about it after Beta), but the game has evolved in a direction that doesn't really promote their use. This is especially true in GG1. 
So, to be clear, Jack is still very good in specific pools, but half of the cool tricks the crew can pull off are not really going to be used. I'm hoping for a couple of tweaks to the underused models in the future. In fact, I hope that the keyword can shift a bit more away from forcing discards (I wish the guilty didn't have that bonus action) and take more advantage of the really cool synergies it can pull off. Not that discarding isn't good (It's amazing!), it's just that I'd like to win a game with Daw without my opponent having the worst time of their life. It's a curse that one of my favorite keywords involves only one player at the table having fun, one way or the other.

[Graf]

9 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

but the game has evolved in a direction that doesn't really promote their use. This is especially true in GG1. 

While I'm fully aware they prefer kill and centerpoint focused schemes, I feel like GG1 got a bit more killy, or at least schemy schemes got more awkward to do. So, can you elaborate on your statement? 

[Maniacal_cackle]

10 minutes ago, Graf said:

While I'm fully aware they prefer kill and centerpoint focused schemes, I feel like GG1 got a bit more killy, or at least schemy schemes got more awkward to do. So, can you elaborate on your statement? 

Between Leave Your Mark and Claim Jump, over 2/3 of pools will have a centre scheme!

[Saduhem]

25 minutes ago, Graf said:

While I'm fully aware they prefer kill and centerpoint focused schemes, I feel like GG1 got a bit more killy, or at least schemy schemes got more awkward to do. So, can you elaborate on your statement? 

So that's exactly it. GG1 really likes elite crews with models that can stay alive. That usually means that you'll bring Daw, Montresor, 1-2 Hanged, maybe 1-2 guilty. Jaakuna can show up too. The rest is going to be versatile, likely heals too.

So you'll never get the "combos" with the drowned pulling people towards Jaakuna while her aura gives out staggered due to the crooked man. You're not going to have the Dead Outlaw putting up his aura and pushing models with scheme marker drops, perhaps while the crooked man gets a crow on Malifaux Mining Law. You're never really going to pull off "At Gunpoint" near an enemy marker.

Also, while Public Enemies is fine, half the movement tricks aren't really helping with Corrupted Leylines. A good opponent is going to quickly take out at least 1 hanged early, so Symbols of authority is a no-no. Even if they didn't take care of the Hanged, it would still be hard. Recover evidence is alright if you can spam lures between Jaakuna and Montresor's Cursed to Watch... I guess..

Scheme-wise, only the killy ones are even worth consideration + claim jump. That's more a GG1 issue than a Tormented issue, but it further reduces the likelihood of hiring some of the cool synergy models.

So, to re-iterate the point, there's a ton of synergies within keyword, but you're really just going to take Daw in pools that require killing and not spreading out (And only if you're not expecting specific factions or keywords). So no fancy interactions like the ones mentioned above. Heck, half the keyword isn't going to get hired period.

[Saduhem]

15 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Between Leave Your Mark and Claim Jump, over 2/3 of pools will have a centre scheme!

True, but having 1 center based scheme isn't enough, at least for me, to warrant bringing Jack Daw, especially when 2 strategies are just plain bad, 2 factions are his absolute bane, and there are multiple keywords he just can't handle.

Again, my point wasn't that Jack isn't good, on the contrary. To refine the points:
 

• Jack needs a very specific pool and needs to avoid certain matchups (Which is fine)
• There are lots of tricks the keyword can pull off but you will not realistically use, in part due to some models just not being worth hiring

This is also my very personal and humble opinion, it could be that at a much higher level people play Jack all the time.

[Maniacal_cackle]

10 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

Heck, half the keyword isn't going to get hired period.

I think part of the issue is that for most keywords, once you get down to really optimising, lots of stuff doesn't make the cut. 

Which isn't to say that you're wrong. I don't know much about Tormented. Just observing that this is a trend in Malifaux more widely I think - most models are viable, but not even close to optimal. So no surprise that it is an issue for Tormented!

[Saduhem]

7 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think part of the issue is that for most keywords, once you get down to really optimising, lots of stuff doesn't make the cut. 

Which isn't to say that you're wrong. I don't know much about Tormented. Just observing that this is a trend in Malifaux more widely I think - most models are viable, but not even close to optimal. So no surprise that it is an issue for Tormented!

Of course! My remarks were more about, unfortunately, many tricks in the tactica not being feasible. Again, I started a similar thread a looong time ago and it's very useful for new players to see all the nice interactions.

I was merely commenting on the fact that, on the table and in the current state of the game, these tricks don't come into play.
Additionally, I think my hope is that future errata promote this kind of fun stuff that's not very used, while maybe removing some of the negative player experience that one has against Jack. In essence, if you lose with Jack, chances are your opponent was prepared. If you win with Jack, your opponent just had the most miserable game in recent memory. In a sense, you lose either way!

[Graf]

I see, this makes it a bit more clear. From my first experiences with Tormented, I have to agree about some of their minions. I wouldn't have bought Drowned, if they weren't in the same box as Jaakuna. Also can't see how or when to include Crooked Man (one of the aspects I hope to get a good idea for from others). I do not agree about Dead Outlaw, but I can see they have limits.

Also, as I never intended Daw to be my main, but instead as a complementary crew for Transmortis, my viewpoint probably is a little bit different. If one wants to main Daw in a competetive meta, I'm sure this wouldn't end well.

Don't care much about the whole supposed NPE thing, imho people often cry way to fast about the flavour of the day being OP. Guess that's personal opinion though and not only depends on individuals but also the (non)competetive mindset of their meta. 

[Favilludo]

2 hours ago, Saduhem said:

Jack is easy to tech against (And don't even consider declaring him vs Bayou or Ten Thunders). This creates a situation where you don't want to use him against new players, but you'll get teched against vs experienced players, especially if they're part of your meta and they expect Daw to begin with.

Why do you think that Jack is bad against Bayou, I have played against the same player with Daw like 7 times, him bringing all sorts of different Bayou crews and I have lost 1 out of 8. I honestly dont really see why bayou would be a good counter. What am I missing?

[Adran]

5 minutes ago, Favilludo said:

Why do you think that Jack is bad against Bayou, I have played against the same player with Daw like 7 times, him bringing all sorts of different Bayou crews and I have lost 1 out of 8. I honestly dont really see why bayou would be a good counter. What am I missing?

My guess is the fact Bayou have Ruthless on an upgrade so they can make any 2 models of their choice get around all the terror.

[Favilludo]

1 minute ago, Adran said:

My guess is the fact Bayou have Ruthless on an upgrade so they can make any 2 models of their choice get around all the terror.

Yes, that is true. But, for some random reason, and i have done this before, Ligeia can get rid of these upgrades (I know that that generally is not a good idea to try but I think its kinda weird that of all totems the one that actually wants the enemy to have them can get rid of their upgrades). I think those upgrades make the match into kind of a glass cannon fight for both sides. While they can now hit me through ruthless, this also means that they really want to at least get their models into LoS with my core crew. This means that if I use on your heels triggers well, 2 usually are enough to get to them, if not 1. I can now cheat really freely with my models since I will almost always draw at the end of their activation. I feel like the only moment I am actually scared of upgrades is when it either is diesel engine, or it is on a runner or backline stuff such as a soulstone miner.

Then again that could just be that I haven't really had the chance to play really competitively and haven't seen that environment too much.

[Adran]

Ligeia can make the opponent choose to take damage or lose the upgrade, the choice is with your opponent, and I'd expect them to keep their ruthless upgrade. (Because if Ligeia is in base contact with an enemy beater, she isn't likely to last long)

I think the reason Ligia has that trigger is to allow you to get upgrades back off your own guilty if you have cursed them. Or to allow you to try and get back upgrades if you want to put them on other models, but its only going to be rarely used. 

You get more card draw, although you might still be wanting to curse them anyway for the curse effects, but your defences have taken quite a pounding. 

I've not played the match up, but I would go into it putting ruthless on my main beaters, to try and break up the bubble quickly.   

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Some people tech Mourners in to combat Ruthless in Jack Daw, but I don't know about it. On paper, Mourners seem like they need to be paired with Blasphemous Ritual to be worth their stones, and I'm not sure where you'd put it in a Daw crew (potentially on a Hanged I suppose, as GST is good there and they probably have a bonus action to spare turn 1?)

The minus flip for Scarlet Temptation is also potentially very useful for landing your upgrade actions. Tormented arguably have the best suite of willpower duels in the faction - even Lady Ligeia is going to be pretty scary if she is landing her wp attacks.

At 7 stones it is a bit steep, of course, as many are dubious that they're even worth 6.

Haven't tested it or played against it myself, but know some people have toyed with it.

[Plaag]

6 hours ago, Saduhem said:

Jack is one of my favorite masters but, after ~40 games in beta alone, and many more since then, there are a few unfortunate downsides, at least in my opinion:

• Jack is absolutely terrifying against people who are still new-ish to the game. 
• Jack is easy to tech against (And don't even consider declaring him vs Bayou or Ten Thunders). This creates a situation where you don't want to use him against new players, but you'll get teched against vs experienced players, especially if they're part of your meta and they expect Daw to begin with.
• Black Blood, Burning, Vengeance, Penetrating Stench, Ruthless, Poison, Unmade, Entropy, Stealth, Shockwaves, Misery, Stunned, Armor, any many more crew specific mechanics really, really hurt Jack. He's just not safe to declare unless you have some idea of what's coming.
• Many models don't really see play. You need to have an incredibly good reason to hire a Crooked Man, a Drowned, or a Dead Outlaw.
• A bone pile/sloth will usually be better hires overall. Healing is really good for Tormented. Condition removal is almost mandatory vs some Keywords.
• Tormented have a limited pool in which they're effective.

Tormented are capable of a ridiculous amount of tricks (I started one of the first threads about it after Beta), but the game has evolved in a direction that doesn't really promote their use. This is especially true in GG1. 
So, to be clear, Jack is still very good in specific pools, but half of the cool tricks the crew can pull off are not really going to be used. I'm hoping for a couple of tweaks to the underused models in the future. In fact, I hope that the keyword can shift a bit more away from forcing discards (I wish the guilty didn't have that bonus action) and take more advantage of the really cool synergies it can pull off. Not that discarding isn't good (It's amazing!), it's just that I'd like to win a game with Daw without my opponent having the worst time of their life. It's a curse that one of my favorite keywords involves only one player at the table having fun, one way or the other.

drowned is very good, one of best 6 ss minion

[Favilludo]

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Some people tech Mourners in to combat Ruthless in Jack Daw, but I don't know about it. On paper, Mourners seem like they need to be paired with Blasphemous Ritual to be worth their stones, and I'm not sure where you'd put it in a Daw crew (potentially on a Hanged I suppose, as GST is good there and they probably have a bonus action to spare turn 1?)

The minus flip for Scarlet Temptation is also potentially very useful for landing your upgrade actions. Tormented arguably have the best suite of willpower duels in the faction - even Lady Ligeia is going to be pretty scary if she is landing her wp attacks.

At 7 stones it is a bit steep, of course, as many are dubious that they're even worth 6.

Haven't tested it or played against it myself, but know some people have toyed with it.

I want to try that sometimes. I always take GST on Jack, but you need his push tricks turn 1. As for sparing bnus actions on Hanged. I always have them stone or cheat a mask to port to a guilty. If both port there for a bonus action. It will only get 1 Upgrade and they port for 12'' as a bonus action, potentially getting 2 attacks off turn 1. That is why i disagree that jack takes long to get into position. Plus if you combine that with jacks on your heels trigger and a lure from Jakuna. You can spend 2 attacks and 3 bonus actions to get 5 Models to the center line in normal deployment. I do think the upgrade could be good on Montressor. He does not need his bonus for the first 2 turns.

[Plaag]

3 hours ago, Favilludo said:

I want to try that sometimes. I always take GST on Jack, but you need his push tricks turn 1. As for sparing bnus actions on Hanged. I always have them stone or cheat a mask to port to a guilty. If both port there for a bonus action. It will only get 1 Upgrade and they port for 12'' as a bonus action, potentially getting 2 attacks off turn 1. That is why i disagree that jack takes long to get into position. Plus if you combine that with jacks on your heels trigger and a lure from Jakuna. You can spend 2 attacks and 3 bonus actions to get 5 Models to the center line in normal deployment. I do think the upgrade could be good on Montressor. He does not need his bonus for the first 2 turns.

u need whisper, not gst

[Graf]

6 hours ago, Favilludo said:

Yes, that is true.

Ranged ruthless is were the real money lies imho (Ruthless Roosters, anyone?). Also one of the reason why Daw is a big no no against LJ.

 

5 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Some people tech Mourners in to combat Ruthless in Jack Daw, but I don't know about it.

Same issue here. Works well against melee ruthless, doesn't do anything against ranged.

In general, GSTs on Hanged work like a charm.

 

32 minutes ago, Plaag said:

u need whisper, not gst

Until you're experienced enough with the crew, GST can ease some burden though. In the long run, I agree.

[Favilludo]

3 minutes ago, Graf said:

Ranged ruthless is were the real money lies imho (Ruthless Roosters, anyone?). Also one of the reason why Daw is a big no no against LJ.

 

Same issue here. Works well against melee ruthless, doesn't do anything against ranged. But GSTs on Hanged work like a charm.

 

Until you're experienced enough with the crew, GST can ease some burden though. In the long run, I agree.

Yeah, rooster riders are quite scary with ruthless. If they are in the range of 14'', i can get a hanged into mele with their bonus action and a little push from jack for example. Then they start beating. But yeah, that is a scary model. Havent really used the whisper quite yet, but I looked at it again and yes, i need to play it, its great.