trikk Posted August 10, 2020 Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 So after playing all the masters in various configurations I think it would be cool to show my tier list and see what other people see about it. All non-versatile models will have 2 tiers, in keyword and out of keyword. The default out of keyword will be C to make it simpler. Everything is IMHO and I'd like to hear your opinions A tier: for masters it's a tier you pick to win a tournament. For models it's hire always/almost always B tier: they are not autopicks but you will hire them more often than not. In some situations they can be A tier. C tier: they aren't optimal picks but they are not very bad so if you include some in your list you still have a chance to win D tier: you can skip them. Marshals: Lady Justice + Scales B- Judge A/B Jury B/B Lone Marshal B Recruiters D Domadors A Exorcists: B/B (due to exorcism trigger mostly) Death Marshals C Journalists: Nellie + Printing Press A Phiona A/A (Edit: She's basically an autotake) Allison Dade B Undercover Reporter B/B Field Reporters A False Witness: A Newsie: D Guard: Dashel + Dispatcher A Queeg B- Executionier A/C (except Lucius, when he jumps to B+) Mounted Guard A Sergeant B Riflemen B- Wardens C Patrol C Hounds C+ Family: Perdita + Enslaved Nephilim B- Francisco A- (Edit: after playing him more, he's definitely better) Nino A Abuela A Santiago C+ Papa Loco B- Monster Hunter A Pistolero De Latigo D Witch Hunters: Sonnia + Puryfing Flame C Samael Hopkins C+ Thrall B Handler A Queller D Stalkers C+ Spellcasters A Elite: Lucius + Scribe B Agent 46 A Alan Reid C Investigator C Lawyer A/A (Edit: Lawyer bumped to A/A because they turned out awesome) False Witness B- Augmented (only Guild models): Hoffman + Attendant B+ Melissa K.O.R.E B Peacekeeper C Guardian B Hunter B (Edit: after playing some Hoff I don't think they deserve A) Riot Breaker: B- Warden C Watcher A Frontier: Basse + Bernadette C (they increase in value on specific tables) Reichart C Crockett C Austringer B+ Pathfinder A/B Frontiersmann C Clockwork Traps TBD Versatile models: Grimwell B Heartsbane C Orderly D Steward A Pale Rider A Emissary B Effigy B (Edit: Effigy drops to B, he's usually doesn't fit) Greed C Peacekeeper D Discussion welcome and of course YMMV 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trample Posted August 10, 2020 Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 I don't play with or against Guild that much, but overall this looks pretty good. Some quick thoughts: Lone Marshal - seems more like A/B to me Undercover Reporter - you're probably right with B/B since it is situational, but it is a lot of situations and awesome. You may well be running journalists in those situations. Hard not to go A/B+ Mounted Guard - A/I would add a B after the slash especially with No Prisoners Santiago - only a C+ in keyword? I thought he was better (but haven't seen him on the table) Peacekeeper - is he as bad as D? I was a bit surprised you rated Hoffman over Lucius as well. It appears like a solid set of rankings with the minimal knowledge I have of Guild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theamazingmrg Posted August 10, 2020 Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 It amuses me that you rate Sonnia lower than Samael. When I say 'amuses', I mean 'upsets, obviously. Not for your rating, but that my favourite pyromaniac is so bad 😪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted August 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 57 minutes ago, Trample said: I don't play with or against Guild that much, but overall this looks pretty good. Some quick thoughts: Lone Marshal - seems more like A/B to me He costs 10 OOK. 11 gets you a Rider which IMHO is way better at almost everything. 58 minutes ago, Trample said: Undercover Reporter - you're probably right with B/B since it is situational, but it is a lot of situations and awesome. You may well be running journalists in those situations. Hard not to go A/B+ I just got him painted but I played him in beta and he's situational depending on the opponent and strat. 59 minutes ago, Trample said: Mounted Guard - A/I would add a B after the slash especially with No Prisoners I think No Prisoners is a bad upgrade TBH. It's bonuses are all over the place. For 11 points you have a Rider. 1 hour ago, Trample said: Santiago - only a C+ in keyword? I thought he was better (but haven't seen him on the table) I might be too harsh on him. He has some nice stuff but except for A Por El he doesn't really solve any problems. He has challenge but he has mediocre stats and no real defensive tools. My main issue with Dita is that it's a shooty crew but only 1 model ignores cover and concealment and everything is at min 2 and Df5 (except Dita). 1 hour ago, Trample said: Peacekeeper - is he as bad as D? I found that every Hoffman Beater is probably better because he offers much home except Damage. Ryle has nice triggers on his guns, has creep along and field repairs, Joss has Command Construct, Ruthless and irreducable damage, Howard has vent steam and denies triggers. All of them are Mv5 also. Most Guild keywords don't need extra beaters. They need support and movement and he offers none 50 minutes ago, theamazingmrg said: It amuses me that you rate Sonnia lower than Samael. When I say 'amuses', I mean 'upsets, obviously. Not for your rating, but that my favourite pyromaniac is so bad 😪 I love Sonnia but TBH she doesn't offer a lot except damage. None of her keyword models really support her defense stats (Df4) or movement (4). Burning is quite nice and the summoning is cool, but for me why go through hoops for stuff to work instead of just having something that does. Lady Justice has a bit of mobility and a lot of healing. Perdita has a lot of movement tricks and extra AP generation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted August 10, 2020 Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 I’ll repeat I’m a bit surprised at the relative values of hunters and wardens and mostly leave it at that. Well, one point. Wardens, who can plan to hit a knock aside trigger whenever they please, are a 5ss investment in rearranging models to your liking. In other factions it can be found cheaper, maybe, but that doesn’t make them C-tier bad when it’s only Guild under consideration. ...but I have defected from Guild lately and been playing Zipp, because I needed the lift to my spirits which is the dropping of pianos. It’s not a good year for moody darkness and bad things happening, in my hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted August 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Gnomezilla said: I’ll repeat I’m a bit surprised at the relative values of hunters and wardens and mostly leave it at that. Well, one point. Wardens, who can plan to hit a knock aside trigger whenever they please, are a 5ss investment in rearranging models to your liking. In other factions it can be found cheaper, maybe, but that doesn’t make them C-tier bad when it’s only Guild under consideration. ...but I have defected from Guild lately and been playing Zipp, because I needed the lift to my spirits which is the dropping of pianos. It’s not a good year for moody darkness and bad things happening, in my hobby. Hunters have Mv6 and Deadly Pursuit. Which means they can scheme when a watcher will die too easily. Hunters are also perma Stat 6. Also Hoffman has Transfer Power everywhere so I don't think he has mobility issues that much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alerteddonkey42 Posted August 10, 2020 Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 Is this a scale specifically kept in faction, or do you envision masters from all factions being in this list? I think the relativity if the scale is important. Here are my personal thoughts: Abuela- I'd rate her lower. Possibly even a C. The obey is nice, but she doesn't really do much else. Yes, she gives +1 to duels outside of your activation, but you really don't have the card draw to use A Por El many times a turn. She also dies to a stiff breeze given that she is defense 4, 5 wounds, and only htw. Santiago- I actually think a C+ is pretty generous for him. Sanctioned spellcasters- These things end up being a 1 ap speed bump for most competitive crews. Arcane shield, defense 4, and 4 wounds does not make you able to survive a single focused shot/melee. Adding to this, their range is only 8" so they are close to the fight. Scheming with this can be good, but the aren't the most mobile scheme runners (and this assumes you have a ss user in the correct position) and they require little effort to completely stop. D Lucius- I'm actually surprised to see him rated as only a B. I always think of Guild's competitive 3e masters as Dashel, Nellie, and Lucius. His crew draws cards like crazy, has deceptive mobility, and the damage output isn't too shabby if you play it right. I'd personally rate him as an A Reichart- I'd move him up to a B. He has some survivability, a good melee attack, and has Bring it (which is great for repositioning your own models as well as positioning your opponent's). Those are the major differences in how I would rank these models. I appreciate you putting this list and thread out there! I think it can lead to some interesting discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted August 10, 2020 Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 You make me want to nitpick everything!! I love this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted August 10, 2020 Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 Clockwork traps - a+/d Malifaux raptors - z/z- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted August 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, 4thstringer said: Clockwork traps - a+/d Malifaux raptors - z/z- Raptors are A if your Austringer dies from irreducable damage :D! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted August 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 13 hours ago, Alerteddonkey42 said: Is this a scale specifically kept in faction, or do you envision masters from all factions being in this list? I think the relativity if the scale is important. Here are my personal thoughts: Abuela- I'd rate her lower. Possibly even a C. The obey is nice, but she doesn't really do much else. Yes, she gives +1 to duels outside of your activation, but you really don't have the card draw to use A Por El many times a turn. She also dies to a stiff breeze given that she is defense 4, 5 wounds, and only htw. She's 5 SS. The aura and obey + HtW (so she usually needs 2-3 hits instead of 1 focused) justifies her for me. 13 hours ago, Alerteddonkey42 said: Sanctioned spellcasters- These things end up being a 1 ap speed bump for most competitive crews. Arcane shield, defense 4, and 4 wounds does not make you able to survive a single focused shot/melee. Adding to this, their range is only 8" so they are close to the fight. Scheming with this can be good, but the aren't the most mobile scheme runners (and this assumes you have a ss user in the correct position) and they require little effort to completely stop. D They are pretty fast and hit surprisingly fast. They aren't great but for 4SS 3 actions a turn seem reasonable. 13 hours ago, Alerteddonkey42 said: Lucius- I'm actually surprised to see him rated as only a B. I always think of Guild's competitive 3e masters as Dashel, Nellie, and Lucius. His crew draws cards like crazy, has deceptive mobility, and the damage output isn't too shabby if you play it right. I'd personally rate him as an A It might be a personal thing, but I think Lucius draws cards but the whole keyword doesn't do too much. He's also a master that suffers greatly if your 2 main models die (and they aren't that tough). 13 hours ago, Alerteddonkey42 said: Reichart- I'd move him up to a B. He has some survivability, a good melee attack, and has Bring it (which is great for repositioning your own models as well as positioning your opponent's). My biggest issue with Reichart is Stoic Nod which is an awful action. His Bring it would be cool if it skipped concealment. That's generally a big issue with Frontier. They put a lot of concealing terrain but only Pathfinders and Crockett ignore it for shooting. 13 hours ago, Alerteddonkey42 said: Santiago- I actually think a C+ is pretty generous for him. Santiago is actually really weird. I mean he doesn't look bad on paper, but he's kind of all over the place. He has challenge but he's pretty squishy and has Df5. He has decen triggers but he doesn't skip cover, concealment and his damage output isn't really good. I mean it's weird that noone in Family has Rapid Fire or min 3 😕 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 I've had decent luck with Santiago using Deadly Pursuit and Expert Shot to clear off things that get too close. That 8 cost is... high.... and I'm not going to pretend there aren't better things to fill the spot, but I've generally gotten solid results when I put him on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 On 8/11/2020 at 3:58 AM, trikk said: She's 5 SS. The aura and obey + HtW (so she usually needs 2-3 hits instead of 1 focused) justifies her for me. They are pretty fast and hit surprisingly fast. They aren't great but for 4SS 3 actions a turn seem reasonable. It might be a personal thing, but I think Lucius draws cards but the whole keyword doesn't do too much. He's also a master that suffers greatly if your 2 main models die (and they aren't that tough). My biggest issue with Reichart is Stoic Nod which is an awful action. His Bring it would be cool if it skipped concealment. That's generally a big issue with Frontier. They put a lot of concealing terrain but only Pathfinders and Crockett ignore it for shooting. Santiago is actually really weird. I mean he doesn't look bad on paper, but he's kind of all over the place. He has challenge but he's pretty squishy and has Df5. He has decen triggers but he doesn't skip cover, concealment and his damage output isn't really good. I mean it's weird that noone in Family has Rapid Fire or min 3 😕 Challenge should just be assumed to not be on his card. Save a low mask to get him a third shot. And protect him with phiona I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted September 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 Since I played some more games, there are some updates Phiona moved to perma A/A Francisco went from B- to A-. With enough Focus he hits like a truck Lawyer went from A/B to A/A. That shielded and extra action is massive Effigy and Hunter both dropped as I can't seem to fit them in any list... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legislat Posted September 4, 2020 Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 It is kinda funny to see opinions change in real time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted September 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Legislat said: It is kinda funny to see opinions change in real time You were an inspiration for Phiona and the Lawyer and while I think I don`t always pick both, I usually have at least one of them in each serious game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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