Self Loathing vs Kentaurinoi and more

[trikk]

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Self Loathing: Select a (1) AP Action on the
target. Apply the printed damage results of the chosen Action to the target, no
other effects or Triggers from the chosen Action

 

 

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Kentaurinoi Lance: Target suffers 1/2/4 damage, or 3/4/6
damage if this Action was generated by a Charge

 

 

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Example  attack: Target gains Poison +2. If the target is a Beast it suffers 2/3/4 instead.

 

What are "damage results"? If Pandora uses Self Loathing and select Kentaurinoi`s Lance attack what damage does she deal?

1) First because the second one is basically "other effect"?

2) She can choose (but nowhere in Self Loathing there`s anything about choosing"

3) She applies both because they both are damage results.

 

If 1) then can she use the 2/3/4 from my example attack?

[santaclaws01]

1 hour ago, Angelshard said:

125) If Pandora uses Self Loathing/Self Harm and gets a damage result with one or more b, are the blasts applied? Yes, so long as the b is a part of the damage track.

 

As I read this FAQ entry it means that only the damage track counts and nothing else.

That's not what it means. That's just a specific example, because there are attacks that can deal blasts by some other means other than being part of the damage track. If only the damage track was copied  then damaging attacks without a damage track, like A Wicked Silence, wouldn't be use able by Self Loathing.

[Adran]

I would say that it depends on Pandora Charging. If she charged, then the lance action has a 3/4/6 damage track. If she didn't charge then it is 1/2/4

Pandora doesn't get to choose but the damage track of the action changes under certain circumstances. 

But I would not be surprised if it was only 1/2/4 regardless of anything. 

EDIT - The phrase on the Lance action only applies on lance actions taken on the charge, so Pandora isn;t' going to be using it becasue she isn't taking the lance action. I'm changing my Answer

[Adran]

Just now, Angelshard said:

Is poison and burning also a damage result? 

Regarding kentauroi it says "if this action was generated by a charge."

I'm not sure it counts as the lance action being generated, but I can see how you could transfer the wording to self loathing.

No. Poison and burning aren't damaging results. 

[Myyrä]

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Kentaurinoi Lance: Target suffers 1/2/4 damage, or 3/4/6
damage if this Action was generated by a Charge

I would say Pandora can't use the higher damage, because there was no Kentauroi Lance action generated by a Charge.

[Steamtastic Vagabond]

23 minutes ago, trikk said:

 

 

 

 

 

What are "damage results"? If Pandora uses Self Loathing and select Kentaurinoi`s Lance attack what damage does she deal?

1) First because the second one is basically "other effect"?

2) She can choose (but nowhere in Self Loathing there`s anything about choosing"

3) She applies both because they both are damage results.

 

If 1) then can she use the 2/3/4 from my example attack?

In this case, kentaurioni’s lance would deal 1/2/3 damage because it didn’t charge itself. Answering the second question, it the creature being tergeted by self loathing is itself a beast, it should deal the damage it would vs. Beasts. Otherwise, it should be the normal damage.

[trikk]

Just now, Steamtastic Vagabond said:

In this case, kentaurioni’s lance would deal 1/2/3 damage because it didn’t charge itself. Answering the second question, it the creature being tergeted by self loathing is itself a beast, it should deal the damage it would vs. Beasts. Otherwise, it should be the normal damage.

What happens if the action says "if something something, deal +2 dmg". Is this a "damaging result" or "other effect"? The line is pretty blurry.

[Angelshard]

125) If Pandora uses Self Loathing/Self Harm and gets a damage result with one or more b, are the blasts applied? Yes, so long as the b is a part of the damage track.

 

As I read this FAQ entry it means that only the damage track counts and nothing else.

[trikk]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

I would say that it depends on Pandora Charging. If she charged, then the lance action has a 3/4/6 damage track. If she didn't charge then it is 1/2/4

Pandora doesn't get to choose but the damage track of the action changes under certain circumstances. 

But I would not be surprised if it was only 1/2/4 regardless of anything. 

And what happens if under certain circumstances the attack deals +2 dmg?

[Adran]

7 minutes ago, trikk said:

And what happens if under certain circumstances the attack deals +2 dmg?

I would say it doesn't. That's not a damage track. 

[trikk]

Just now, Adran said:

I would say it doesn't. That's not a damage track. 

Self Loathing doesn`t say anything about damage tracks. It mentions "damaging results"

[Adran]

10 minutes ago, trikk said:

Self Loathing doesn`t say anything about damage tracks. It mentions "damaging results"

Good call. Then I would go for those +2 damage results if the circumstance is met. 

[Angelshard]

Is poison and burning also a damage result? 

Regarding kentauroi it says "if this action was generated by a charge."

I'm not sure it counts as the lance action being generated, but I can see how you could transfer the wording to self loathing.

[trikk]

7 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

I would say Pandora can't use the higher damage, because there was no Kentauroi Lance action generated by a Charge.

That makes sense. What happens if an attack works like the example I mentioned?

Quote

Target gains Poison +2. If the target is a Beast it suffers 2/3/4 instead.

If I target a Beast its 2/3/4. If I don`t its 0?

[Myyrä]

Just now, trikk said:

That makes sense. What happens if an attack works like the example I mentioned?

Quote

Target gains Poison +2. If the target is a Beast it suffers 2/3/4 instead.

If I target a Beast its 2/3/4. If I don`t its 0?

Is there an action like that? That seems like it would do self loathing damage to a Beast, but I really hope it doesn't exist.

[trikk]

4 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

Is there an action like that? That seems like it would do self loathing damage to a Beast, but I really hope it doesn't exist.

It doesn't but its good to have some example. Basically do we go through the action and its conditions and just apply damage or do we go more of the damage track route.

 

What if its Baby Kade and it has the +2 dmg bonus. Is this a damaging result or other effect?

[Adran]

1 minute ago, Myyrä said:

Is there an action like that? That seems like it would do self loathing damage to a Beast, but I really hope it doesn't exist.

The nearest I can think of is The Judge and I can't rememebr how his action is phrased

[Myyrä]

3 minutes ago, Adran said:

The nearest I can think of is The Judge and I can't rememebr how his action is phrased

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Target suffers 2 damage. Undead targets suffer 2/4/8 damage instead.

I'd say Judge would suffer 2/4/8 damage, if he is undead for some reason. The action isn't a valid target for either of Pandora's attacks though.

6 minutes ago, trikk said:

It doesn't but its good to have some example.

 

What if its Baby Kade and it has the +2 dmg bonus. Is this a damaging result or other effect?

To me it seems like "If the target is engaged with at leaqst one other friendly model, deal +2 damage." is an added effect that modifies the damage, and not part of the damage itself. It's totally debatable though.

[trikk]

1 minute ago, Myyrä said:

I'd say Judge would suffer 2/4/8 damage, if he is undead for some reason. The action isn't a valid target for either of Pandora's attacks though.

And if he isn`t undead why wouldn`t he suffer 2 damage? Its a damaging result.

1 minute ago, Myyrä said:

To me it seems like "If the target is engaged with at leaqst one other friendly model, deal +2 damage." is an added effect that modifies the damage, and not part of the damage itself. It's totally debatable though.

I think I agree with you in the previous examples and I think this kind of makes it weird.

[Myyrä]

Just now, trikk said:

3 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

I'd say Judge would suffer 2/4/8 damage, if he is undead for some reason. The action isn't a valid target for either of Pandora's attacks though.

And if he isn`t undead why wouldn`t he suffer 2 damage? Its a damaging result.

I thought that it goes without saying that flat 2 damage is a damage result and would be applied, so I didn't say it.

[trikk]

So basically you "process" the action effect with all conditional requirements and if they are met and they deal damage you apply them?

[Myyrä]

43 minutes ago, trikk said:

So basically you "process" the action effect with all conditional requirements and if they are met and they deal damage you apply them?

Pandora's Self Loathing says "Apply the printed damage results of the chosen Action to the target, no other effects or triggers from the chosen Action are applied."

I just basically assume that everything that says "Target suffers X damage." is a printed damage result and ignore everything else written on the action. Kentauroi Lance would probably do higher damage when Pandora charges, if weren't for the fact that "this action", in my opinion, refers to Kentauroi Lance.

[Pikciwok]

Less popular Horror, Draugr:
 

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Target suffers 0/1/2 damage. Increase the amount of damage this attack deals by this model's Ht.

What would you experts say: does Pandora/Candy add up her Ht to damage or not? I guess people who think that 'this attack' from Centaur's card refers to K. Lance only would say 'this model's Ht' mean Draugr's Ht.

In my opinion, Self Loathing just does the basic damage (either a set amount of damage or the damage track, and rest of text is treated as 'other effects' and thus - ignored. That does not help with Kentaurorothing (My guess it's just Aaron got sloppy with rules designing, especially that second damage track could be replaced with simple +2 dmg when charging), but it's simple and elegant solution in other cases.
 

On 22.01.2018 at 12:29 PM, Myyrä said:

Is there an action like that? That seems like it would do self loathing damage to a Beast, but I really hope it doesn't exist.

 

On 22.01.2018 at 12:34 PM, trikk said:

It doesn't but its good to have some example.

You trikked me! Don't do that! 

[trikk]

Self Loathing mentions printed damage results. Bumping by height is not a printed dmg result.