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Zoraida, new and improved?

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 Greetings all! I and my fellow band of transcredible misfits are returning to malifaux in the new year after taking a year or so off (we burnt out a little).

I've had a look around and there's lots of fun new stuff for us to play with, but I thought I'd ask what Zoraida likes to play with now she has the emissary, the wisps and her new upgrades?

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The neverborn allstars: Nekima and Doppelgänger are never wrong. 

The swamp mother can get you a ton of gupps with a little help from a wisp.

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1 hour ago, ObliterationPopsicle said:

Does this work? I remember some issue with The Rage Builds and activation, but can't recall the detail. 

Yeah unfortunately it works till the end of his activation.

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14 minutes ago, le_sphinx said:

Yeah unfortunately it works till the end of his activation.

It works until the end of the current activation which is a lot worse. If it was until the end of the wretch's activation you could get a lot more out of it because you could use obey tricks as well as the model's own activation.

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As ludvig said it works until the end of the current activation, which is why zoraida is one of the few masters that can get the full potential out of this model as she can make it charge.

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Sorry for my mistake! But how she can use Wretch's full power?

In my noob understanding if she obeys him for his "rage builds", this action will work till the end of this current action. If Zoraida does that again for charge, then he will have two attacks with:+fate, but without any bonuses from "rage builds" cause it was ended previously, isn't it?

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47 minutes ago, le_sphinx said:

Sorry for my mistake! But how she can use Wretch's full power?

In my noob understanding if she obeys him for his "rage builds", this action will work till the end of this current action. If Zoraida does that again for charge, then he will have two attacks with:+fate, but without any bonuses from "rage builds" cause it was ended previously, isn't it?

It is until the end of thr current activation, not current action. It gets the bonus because it is still the same activation (Zoraida's). It doesn't need to be while the wretch is activating, just the same model activating as it was when the rage builds was taken.

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2 hours ago, Ludvig said:

It is until the end of thr current activation, not current action. It gets the bonus because it is still the same activation (Zoraida's). It doesn't need to be while the wretch is activating, just the same model activating as it was when the rage builds was taken.

This means you can obey the wretch once to take the buff and then obey it again with a mask to charge someone. 

 

This being said tho, zoraida generates a lot of cards with her ap used on enemy models while dispositioning them. Spending 2 ap and maybe a stone with Zoraida just to charge a bloodwretch seems a bit less worth compared to what you can do to enemy models or a bigger beater of your own.

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Yeah, blood wretches aren't exactly power houses. Just charging Nekima for an ap or betitchin and messih woth enemies is a lot more efficient.

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Anyone tried Corrupted Hounds with Zoraida? 

Im looking at running a few for a leg up in activation, and their A New Master ability will be nice if you want to use obeys on them. 

At only 3ss each they're not too much of an investment, even if you never obey them at all. 

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On 10/12/2017 at 12:10 AM, ObliterationPopsicle said:

Anyone tried Corrupted Hounds with Zoraida? 

Im looking at running a few for a leg up in activation, and their A New Master ability will be nice if you want to use obeys on them. 

At only 3ss each they're not too much of an investment, even if you never obey them at all. 

I wouldn't start my list with the expectation I'm using a decent card and my Masters AP to make a 3ss minion take an extra action. 

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20 hours ago, Adran said:

I wouldn't start my list with the expectation I'm using a decent card and my Masters AP to make a 3ss minion take an extra action. 

Nor would I, or most I suspect. 

Interested in any experience using them in game. 

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1 hour ago, ObliterationPopsicle said:

Interested in any experience using them in game. 

Not a Neverborn here, but I can tell you that Corrupted Hounds are commonly seen across various Neverborn crews (especially Lilith) in Polish Malifaux scene and they are in the meta. As for Zoraida specifically, I did play against her crew containing Hounds and they performed absolutely fine, as in any other crew. There was no chance of utilising A New Master though, simply because they were scheming on flank, while Zoraida was hexing, bewitching and obeying my crew in the middle.

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3 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

Not a Neverborn here, but I can tell you that Corrupted Hounds are commonly seen across various Neverborn crews (especially Lilith) in Polish Malifaux scene and they are in the meta. As for Zoraida specifically, I did play against her crew containing Hounds and they performed absolutely fine, as in any other crew. There was no chance of utilising A New Master though, simply because they were scheming on flank, while Zoraida was hexing, bewitching and obeying my crew in the middle.

Thanks for that info tlsg.

I'll certainly be looking to activation and scheme duty first, but it would be interesting to see if they can bring utility in other areas like gumming things up and taking advantage of black blood or similar.

When you have seen them, are people tending to take a pair, or three or four?

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As a Marcus player I've enjoyed Corrupted Hounds. I initially took them to synergise with Pack Leader (gives everyone Smell Fear), but it didn't do much for them. They're dirt cheap. I usually take 2-4 of them, 2-3 can pad out a list as sort-of significant models, 4 is nice for more alpha strike style lists. Primarily I try to drop scheme markers if I can but so long as it doesn't give up free VP, I'm more than happy to 'gum up' things with them. Between black blood and good-for-their-price attack they usually earn their keep. Occasionally, not every game, I even attack them myself to get that guaranteed black blood damage on enemy models if its worth VP.

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Black blood is pretty handy for attacking your own guys if someone is on a really high stat. A black blood shaman and a bunch of dogs could be fun. Maybe not top table super hardcore good which seems to be all that matters now but surely fun.

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I've seen more than one not super optimised list get into top three at tournaments.

Quite often an oddball list can take people by surprise if they haven't seen the trick before.

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1 hour ago, Angelshard said:

I've seen more than one not super optimised list get into top three at tournaments.

Quite often an oddball list can take people by surprise if they haven't seen the trick before.

I am of the opinion that a lot of players are overly conservative and hooked up on only one option being competitive. There are definitely subpar models but there are an awful lot of viable models that have an undeserved bad rep. The problem is that when I take part in tournaments I don't win which raises the question of how viable my way of thinking is. Unless I can find a weird sideways list win a 50+ player tournament against the "netlists" I don't have any solid arguments for my position. The problem is that the top players take sure cards for the big tournaments so we don't know how they would fare with some suboptimal choices in their list. Maybe they make it to the top table in part because they take the models they take.

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I've won an event with self imposed pre-wave 5 Misaki solo. I've wrecked things with Ama No Zako. I'm more than willing to accept that my area isn't as hardcore as some parts of the world where they get +20 people tournaments (biggest here was 16 I believe), but if that means there's more "viable" options I'm all for it.

...although I'm still not convinced by that Shenlong + Hans list I saw in Sweden, even if the guy ended up top 3(?) out of 10(?) players.

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12 minutes ago, Nikodemus said:

I've won an event with self imposed pre-wave 5 Misaki solo. I've wrecked things with Ama No Zako. I'm more than willing to accept that my area isn't as hardcore as some parts of the world where they get +20 people tournaments (biggest here was 16 I believe), but if that means there's more "viable" options I'm all for it.

...although I'm still not convinced by that Shenlong + Hans list I saw in Sweden, even if the guy ended up top 3(?) out of 10(?) players.

That is a good example because winning a ten player tournament doesn't say that much. At the same time some lists can be very strong when you actually face them. I was sceptical of the Tara void spam when I heard it the first time but it proved quite effective on the table. Funnily enoug hI believe void wretches didn't change one bit during their errata (except for the void characteristic) so realistically that spam list has been possible for years without a single player trying it or giving it credence. I remember outcast players on these forums clamouring for errata because void wretches were supposedly the worst 4ss model in the game or something.

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People tend to not like spammy lists, but I think as long as they are not suit or to tn reliant its totally fine to play spammy lists. Sometimes they benefit from an efficient synergy even more as normal lists would do.

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10 hours ago, ObliterationPopsicle said:

When you have seen them, are people tending to take a pair, or three or four?

As with Guild Hounds, three is a minimum, so if one dies, other two still can do some schemes.

10 hours ago, ObliterationPopsicle said:

it would be interesting to see if they can bring utility in other areas like gumming things up and taking advantage of black blood or similar

They can, definitely. Nikodemus summarized this aspect perfectly.

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