Titania and will o' wisps

[Math Mathonwy]

8 hours ago, Sharp_GT said:

Look at it this way: when thing start to die the gorar can bring them back, but if things don't die, it does next to nothing. Basically I don't like perks that require something to be going wrong to be useful, I'd rather they just work.

OTOH if nothing is dying you should be winning so having a useless model in such a situation isn't a problem, generally speaking.

[Sharp_GT]

On 10/16/2017 at 5:41 AM, Joachim said:

Gorar essentially makes your opponent take decisions. Go for the gorar? Ignore the threat of your minions? Go for the minion and take out gorar that way? 

hmm, I could see the value in using the gorar to play distraction for your more aggressive minions, maybe a little bit of mindgames if your opponent's crew only has a litle bit of efficient killing power.

[whodares]

1 hour ago, Sharp_GT said:

hmm, I could see the value in using the gorar to play distraction for your more aggressive minions, maybe a little bit of mindgames if your opponent's crew only has a litle bit of efficient killing power.

Or if the map favors Gorar and you can hide him behind a building. That way your opponent doesn't have much of a choice and killing a Tooth or Rougarou takes up quite a chunk of AP. Either way you win because your priority minions stay alive longer.

I really don't get why people hate Gorar so much as I've always seen him as a solid choice thanks to the synergy that Tooth/Rougarou has with Titania. Yes, he can be completely useless. As mentioned before, if he's useless, he's probably doing something right for you

[santaclaws01]

2 minutes ago, whodares said:

Or if the map favors Gorar and you can hide him behind a building. That way your opponent doesn't have much of a choice and killing a Tooth or Rougarou takes up quite a chunk of AP. Either way you win because your priority minions stay alive longer.

I really don't get why people hate Gorar so much as I've always seen him as a solid choice thanks to the synergy that Tooth/Rougarou has with Titania. Yes, he can be completely useless. As mentioned before, if he's useless, he's probably doing something right for you

Because a gorar that does nothing for a couple turns and then dies to 1-2 attacks is less useful than a PM sitting back giving you cards and being used as a scheme marker at some point in the game. The Gorar is situational useful and really depends on the board. Especially considering if it was just chaff that was killing your Gorar, you'd have really wanted those attacks on a knight because then Titania could just heal it up.

[Joachim]

9 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Because a gorar that does nothing for a couple turns and then dies to 1-2 attacks is less useful than a PM sitting back giving you cards and being used as a scheme marker at some point in the game. The Gorar is situational useful and really depends on the board. Especially considering if it was just chaff that was killing your Gorar, you'd have really wanted those attacks on a knight because then Titania could just heal it up.

Don't forget that the emissary can heal gorar now with the new conflux, or even give it armor. Ok, thats maybe not the best use of this (0) action. But again, it depends on what it is protecting, and df6 can still hold up to some chaff. Off course if the gorar just stands in the open and the opponent can just take pot shots at it, that sucks, but I have played him where there was blocking terrain withing 6" of the board and then use a waldgeist to block off the rest, basically at that point you need stuff like blasts etc to get to him, or go around the terrain or kill the waldgeist first. 

 

Again I also think that the question is not necessarily is he better than PM, cause card cycling is going to be more consistent than what the gorar does, but is the gorar viable? I absolutely think so, there are games where he will be next to useless, but in some games he can be a really good distraction and I like playing around rougarou/tooth anyway. Also, I like to play thematic so I would always lean more towards the thematic option, but that's just me.

[Da Git]

On topic, I don't think the Wisps are really worth it with Titania unless you're also taking something for them to use their Ever Changing Form (the 2Ap stealing Action).  Feed on the Lost is only Aura 3 and they're gunna die super quick.  Their best use seems to be hanging back and using their The Wisps Call to protect other models.  I love the Teddy + A Thousand Faces, Kade & Wisp group for 22ss.  It's a really good trio.  You should be able to get Teddy with Queen's Champ turn 1 with 12' worth of pushes.

Sorry, I know this is off topic, but with the Gorar. I've probably made my mind up with this guy, but to me he is just flat out bad and up there as one of the worst totems in the game.  If only his actions did something...

1. They're Ca 4... I know this is average for a totem, but these target Wp.  How many good models have a Wp of 4 or less?  If it targeted Df, you could at least target some of the bigger beater models (who you'd love to get Paralyse on too!), but this is like Ca 3 vs Df.
2. the + paralyse needs Slow, where does this come from?  Curse of Autumn doesn't synergise with this as the Slow disappears at the end of their Activation.

On top of that, his passive aura also isn't great, there's the huge caveat of being in the centre which is totally board dependent and only effects Minions (something that don't actaully appear that much in a lot of my crews).  If it effected Enforcers too (even at the cost of 2 cards or something, it would be soooo much more flexable useful)

Compare this with Lilith's totem (since a lot of people it's pretty much on par with the Primordial).  Oh how I wish this were Titiania's totem! Out Land would be sooooo good!  Friendlies being able to drop scheme markers for a (0)?  Yes please!  Even it's bow is so much better than The Serpant's Call. Yes, it does have a , but it's likely the only one in the crew (you're not actually taking Aeslin are you?), so if my 3ss totem is making you go into terrain or hug cover, then I call that a win! + Attack stat 5!!!, targeting Df, + built in SLOW!!! (no preventing for you!) + ok damage... great mod for a totem AND a better trigger that's built in!! 

Even Rise Up isn't bad... not likely to be used, but better than anything the Gorar's got.

Seriously I'd happily pay 4ss to be able to take him with Titania.  I just hate him so much!  Thank the Queen the puke worm exists (& I actually really hate that model!)  & guess what, Nullify has Ca 5!!

[Joachim]

10 hours ago, Da Git said:

On topic, I don't think the Wisps are really worth it with Titania unless you're also taking something for them to use their Ever Changing Form (the 2Ap stealing Action). 

I disagree, I actually think that the wisp is a solid model for its cost, even without the copy action. I mean it is just 3ss.

[santaclaws01]

13 hours ago, Da Git said:

On topic, I don't think the Wisps are really worth it with Titania unless you're also taking something for them to use their Ever Changing Form (the 2Ap stealing Action).  Feed on the Lost is only Aura 3 and they're gunna die super quick. 

Not if the things that would kill them need to both pass Barbaros's challenge and discard 2 cards from She Will End Us All.

[Joachim]

Yeah, a titania crew can make you deal with a lot of other stuff. So they're not always as squishy as they seem.

What I also like is that if he just follows titania around, then that makes her wicked silence drop 2 markers, and her wp check or 2 damage also drop a marker. That can really up titanias damage potential.

You can also keep one around tooth/rougarou. Once you pull something in they're engaged with tooth, and later rougarou can do his wp (0), so that's 2 wp duel which drop additional markers, I know, tooth will already drop some, but there are so many uses out of scheme markers that I never feel like I have too much :).

These effect might seem minor, or situational, and they are, but we're talking about a 3ss minion after all. Insignificant is annoying, but you just need to take that into account. Need to interact a lot, take other stuff that can do it, if you just need a non-peon then these guys can count for the strat.

I like to have one around in my titania crews for a cheap activation and I also like the emissary, which can now reliably summon changelings with titania, which then become my cheap significant models. 

I'm still experimenting with the wisps in titania. I think the scheme marker drop is more of a bonus and their strongest use is the wisps call? But I love the models and I'm going to try and us them more with titania.

[le_sphinx]

Sorry for off topic, but what about Wisps with other NB masters and crews except Zoraida (i guess it's obvious)? Are there other combinations with them?

[Vorschlag]

Poltergeist - paranormal activity

Widow weaver - create teddy bear

Baby kade - where's teddy

Spawn mother - nesting pool

Adze - firefly

[Adran]

There is also flurry...

[Joachim]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

There is also flurry...

When all the rest fails

 

If it would be on df then there is still use in hitting low defense models, especially incorporeal ones, but since it is on wp that makes it a lot less reliable.

But you never now, in a corner case scenario, that would also drop a scheme marker.