Beginner deciding on a buy list

[Stur]

Hey, I have yet to play a real game of Malifaux but have read half the rulebook and played the first 2 missions in the two player starter. And I really really like what I see, read and have tested so far

I have been looking at Malifaux a long time and I am going to just take the dive from the get go. In order to do so I need some help deciding on what to buy!

What i currently own:

- Rasputina Crew

- Silent Ones

- December Acolytes

What I am currently considering:

- Snowstorm

-Ice Dancers

- Blessed Of December

- Fate deck

- Generalist Upgrade 1+2

- Core rulebook (I love fluff)

So far this is what I am kinda already decided on, what I am currently having real problems with are the following:

- Ironsides Box

- M&SU Box

- Arcane Effigy

- Essence of Power

- Johan

- Gunsmiths

-Willie

- Electric Creation

- Arachnid Swarm (The double box)

The idea behind this is to predominantly play Iron and Raspy to begin with and get a real nice selection from the start. The Swarm and Creation is mainly there to just have a little beginning for Ramos without focusing to heavy on him. 

1. With this buy list in mind does Ironsides + extras, compliment raspy and all the stuff I have for her well enough?

2. Should I change something on the list in order to have a better selection for either masters better?

3. (This is with competitive play in mind, even though there will be some time before I get there) Would I be better off using some of my budget on another faction aswell instead of going so deep into Arcanists from the start or just focus on 1 faction at a time, Expansions are inevitable its just a matter of doing it from the start or not? (What I have considered is Reva, Shenlong and Mei since she is dual TT)

Hope anyone can help me make my mind and thanks for reading if you got this far haha!

[dancater]

You have several Rasputina essential models already in Silent One and Dec Acolyte.

You really need Ice Dancers (or another scheme runner but Dancers are best) and the Blessed of December (again best fast beater available to her).  For Rasputina they are purchase options (1) & (2).

Snowstorm is really, really useful - not as essential as the above but I'd prioritize it as the options it provides Raspy are stellar.

Fate Deck, Core Books and Upgrade deck are all quality of life and personal enjoyment things, not required to play the game strictly speaking.

I would add this model as a priority:

The Arcane Effigy - it is great, simply great and has a place in every Arcanist list.

Then:

Ironsides is a good box, fun to play and different to Raspy.  She really wants Johan, this is a must purchase for her.

She also likes the contents of the Ramos box, Willie, Arcane Effigy (you need), Silent Ones (you have), December Acolytes (you also have).  Potentially Union Miners and Soulstone Miner I've found are useful.

Ramos is great simply because he is a solid master in his own right and his box synergises well with other Arcanists, notably Ironsides and Colette.

He likes Arcane Effigy and Johan, yes that is a trend.

Also needs as you've noted at least one additional Arachnid Swarm.

Benefits from Large Steam Arachnid, I like Mei's Rail Workers with him, Electrical Creation.

These three masters compliment each other nicely.  I would invest in at least 3-4 masters in a single faction (or duel/merc's) before drifting to another faction, its much better to help you form flexible lists which are the core of Malifaux with its strat/scheme winning conditions.

Other models you'd look at:

Arcane Emissary is a solid choice for any of the Arcanist masters, including the three above.

Metal Gamin, Mechanical Rider, Raptors.

Other Arcanist boxes which synergise very well with the selection above are Mei Feng, Colette and Sandeep. 

Not sure on the new models expected in book 5, let alone the associated upgrades, they are only a few weeks away and may change several things up.  But the above models will be damn good I think regardless.

[Adran]

My advice if you are starting Arcanist is to buy the master you want to play, and the Ramos box. Then buy the general upgrades. 

That really gives you a decent range of models to do all things. After you have played with that I would suggest deciding where you weaknesses are, and buy to fill those.   

the other things are your choice. I would try sticking with 1 faction, but I failed at that. 

[Mxbedlam]

Angelica and raptors are a big buy if you want to go right into Arcanists cheating tactics

[BFOmega]

4 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

Angelica and raptors are a big buy if you want to go right into Arcanists cheating tactics

Might wait on that, errata should be coming out soon, and I imagine that's an interaction that's going to not exist anymore

[Treehouse]

@BFOmega: I wouldn't be surprised, though I'd recommend them as.very valid choices nontheless.

 

@Op: I'd say Ramos compliments Raspy better. I like Toni too, but for a close combat master that can support her crew, I am a fan of Mei Feng. So most of the time, I chose between Ramos.and her. I really.should bring out poor Toni more.often, as I think she gets a lot of bad rep undeservedly. 

 

Anyway, my buy list for Raspy would be: Snowstorm, Ice Dancers, Arcane Emissary (you want him for Toni, and I find him also solid for Ramos), Blessed.

Then.if Ramos:  Toolkit, an additional arachnid swarm. Eventually Mech.Rider, large arachnids are also really nice.

 

If Toni: Amina o.ce she comes out, Willie.

 

General buys, that are generally worthwhile: Effigy, angelica, raptors l, johan. 

[Mxbedlam]

Even if both raptors and Practiced Production get cuddles, you can't go wrong with 3 ss models that annoy the piss out of opponents and deny interference. Also Angelica is straight up amazing for what she does for just 7SS (PP included). The only list I don't regularly take her in is my colette list, because they don't need the pushes.

[Stur]

Alright thanks for the help so far!

Couple of extra questions 

1. Is Angelica not redundant if I end up having snowstorm, captain, ox mages to push?

2. No one has mentioned Gunsmiths, I have seen in older threads that they are relatively hated, is this still the case or are they only good if I also have Fire gaming and Firestarter?

3. Would I be better of with getting the Mei box instead of Ironsides, and instead of Gunsmiths, Willie and Essence of Power, I would get something like Metal Gamin, Soulstone Miners, Mech rider/ Arcane Emmisary / Rail Golem or Mechanized Porkchop + Sparks?

4. I read or heard on some podcast that Essence was good for Raspy and the Ox Mages, is that still true or very situational?

Really appreciate all the help here, its hard to find concrete data with no local players (working on getting people up and going, but we have not started yet) and with many of the threads/blogs outdated haha!

[Adran]

Part of the problem to no concrete data is the answer to all these questions is "it depends". 

1 Sometimes Pushes are amazing, and you want as many as you can get. Other times you don't need them. The captain pushes as well a Angelica, but will cost you more and if all you are looking for is the push then Angelica is cheaper. Snowstorm pushes in bulk if I remember correctly, but only Frozen hearted models. Oxfordian mages only push on an attack that also damages. Plus a lot of people really like Practised productions as an upgrade, and that needs a showgirl. Angelica is the cheapest way to get it into your crew. 

2 Gunsmiths are better if you are playing a list that plays with fire. I would say that a lot of the time there are other choices of a similar level, but that's just my opinion. Putting a gunsmith in your list isn't going to cost you the game even if you have no burning in the list. But they are relatively situational, and whilst there are times they will do better than say a Decembers acolyte, the acolyte is probably better in more situations. 

3 Honestly, I can't say eitehr way is better or worst. They are just different. 

4 Essence of power boosts Ca actions. Rasputina and the mages all attack with Ca actions. The mages all like to be close together. But it does mean you need to drop the wendigo. So its good but situational. If you are going to be able to castle up with them, then the boost is good. If you need to be mobile, then its probably not worth it. Personally, with access to the whole faction, I use the essence very rarely so would say its situational. But with fewer options I would use it more.

 

[Mxbedlam]

I have such a hard time with the idea of dropping the wendigo in a Raspy crew. He does so much work and offers the threat of Devour. Your opponents will hate that. Plus he's a wk 6 significant minion. That's a rare find for 3ss and the extra ice pillar is a huge bonus. 

[retnab]

Agreed, Wendigo paired with Cold Nights is so good I feel like they're near mandatory takes with Raspy.

[Patzer]

What I think you should get 

Snow Storm 

Claw and fang

Mech rider 

Blessed of December 

Ice Dancers 

[TeddyBear]

Imo: My advice (if you want to play Raspu) is to buy these pieces:

1 Snowstorm (without this your raspy is too slow, you need him)

2  Ice dancer (in your raspy crew I think you will use only one, but like scheme runner are great)

3 Optional: Mechanical rider (expansive but in some strategies you need more pieces then your oppo, and this is the best way to do this; if you take the rider you need also what she can evoke)

 

 

[Stur]

Well this simplifies it a bit. The essence is out.

I have been considering the mech rider as suggested but its a little bit expensive hehe but I may end up getting it.

Why Claw and Fang? Is it just for Myranda because I do not see my self playing Marcus anytime soon, probably will at some point but its probably going to be the last one or second last one in Arcanists that I will get

[Patzer]

2 hours ago, Stur said:

Well this simplifies it a bit. The essence is out.

I have been considering the mech rider as suggested but its a little bit expensive hehe but I may end up getting it.

Why Claw and Fang? Is it just for Myranda because I do not see my self playing Marcus anytime soon, probably will at some point but its probably going to be the last one or second last one in Arcanists that I will get

Myranda and the cerberus. They are both great. Good to have some beaters together with the frozen heart models' shooting. Myranda turning into cojo is a good mix up too, which may deny some points now and then. 

[WWHSD]

2 hours ago, Patzer said:

Myranda and the cerberus. They are both great. Good to have some beaters together with the frozen heart models' shooting. Myranda turning into cojo is a good mix up too, which may deny some points now and then. 

Even if you just have Myranda (with Imbued Energies) end up turning into Blessed of December (instead of hiring it for the same 9 soul stones)  you can hit something with its melee attack that's up to 28.5 inches away from where Myranda started her activation (or 22.5 inches away if you want the extra cards in your hand).

I don't know if it's something you'll use every game but its a hell of a trick to have up your sleeve.  

[dancater]

Budget is the key consideration you have.

Claw and Fang is good, it contains some great models but....

It is not a key box for Raspy which you have or Ramos and Ironsides which you were considering next, nor for that matter Mei who has been mentioned.

Myranda is great, but you'd need to buy her (the Box) and the Blessed or use Sabertooth which I think is not as good with Raspy.

Basing off your original post I'd avoid Marcus and his box for a little while, it adds something but honestly based on your early direction less than many other purchases mentioned.  Also its a trap because Marcus invites you to purchase awesome out-faction Beasts to add to his range and flexibility, but this is expensive and adds little if anything to your other Arcanists.

With a big budget I'd get it in a second, if you love Arcanists and the game then you'll end up owning it.  But if you are worried about the cost of the Mech Rider then I think budget is an issue and Claw & Blade provides limited return for outlay on your current collection.  Its well worth the thought, but ultimately I think you need to pare this post down and put together a budget (I have $xx) and priority list.  Schemes and Stones I think also did a nice little series of blog posts called building on a budget lists, I don't think it is gospel but it should also help.

WWHSD makes great points but remember you want the foundation before you look for interesting tricks and left field surprise options and purchasing Claw & Blade so you can field Myranda + Imbued Energies vs a straight Blessed is.... while very economical and tricksie points/game wise probably not the best use of limited gaming related funds.

[Stur]

@dancater Yeah it was a little bit silly not mentioning a budget I have around £200 +/- £20 (I am more comfortable staying at £200 but might go to 220 for Emissary or Mech Rider).

I have had a look at S&S Building on a budget, and I listen to his podcast regularly. But as you said its not Gospel and only 1 or 2 peoples opinion :D! My problem with S&S B on a B, is that the budget is too small for me. Since its mainly just - M&SU + Other Crew Box + Johan as a starter. So it is more as to what to prioritize after that. I feel I have gotten some pretty good help in this thread and that has helped me change some in my list.

This is cemented I guess since I already have Raspy, this seems to benefit me the most, and its nice to get the luxury items out of the way so that in the future I can focus on just getting models.

- Snowstorm

-Ice Dancers

- Blessed Of December

- Arcane Effigy

- Fate deck

- Generalist Upgrade 1+2

- Core rulebook (I love fluff)

What I am thinking now is the original list I posted but, I will be content with just using Acolytes instead of Gunsmiths. Thinking about ditching Gunsmiths and Essence of Power in favor of Mech Rider. That totals £201 from the webstore I will get them (Not sure if its okay to list the name).

I am still conflicted I must admit whether or not to get Iron or Mei. Since I keep reading very split opinions on Ironsides whereas people seem to universally agree that Mei is rather Solid whether it is for Arcanists or TT. 

Also when I bought my Raspy crew I got the TT Brothers and Lone Swordsman aswell, the plan was to include Shenlong in that order aswell for the sake of variety, but ended up not having enough money at the time. So what I have been thinking is maybe get Shenlong Box + Mei Box and arcanist suplements. That way I would have 2 TT and 2 Arcanist masters and some units on the side to play around with. But I must admit the more I think about that, the more it seems like a bad idea as others have already stated in this thread. Anyways this is turning into a rambling, I really do appreciate all the help, starting a new system or even just a new faction is always hard when you want all of it haha!

[retnab]

Regarding Mei and Ironsides, I feel like Mei is one of the coolest masters we have access to, able to zip around the map and combo punch swarms to death - however, she's very hard to keep alive, so the chances to do that are more slim than i'd like. Ironsides on the other hand has two very different playstyle she can do, both of which are fairly simple (be a buffbot with Hand Picked Men, or fly around the map bullying the enemy support) but IMO she's the better master (and she was my highest winrate last year so that helps lol). They're fairly similar so it's a playstyle thing more than anything else.

[WWHSD]

35 minutes ago, retnab said:

Regarding Mei and Ironsides, I feel like Mei is one of the coolest masters we have access to, able to zip around the map and combo punch swarms to death - however, she's very hard to keep alive, so the chances to do that are more slim than i'd like. Ironsides on the other hand has two very different playstyle she can do, both of which are fairly simple (be a buffbot with Hand Picked Men, or fly around the map bullying the enemy support) but IMO she's the better master (and she was my highest winrate last year so that helps lol). They're fairly similar so it's a playstyle thing more than anything else.

The other thing to consider with Mei Feng is that there's not much in her box that you'll use in other Arcanist crews. Kang is awesome but he isn't dual faction. The Rail Workers can do a decent job but there's a lot of other 4/5 point melee minions that Arcanists have access to.

The Ironsides box is in a little better place. It comes with the Oxfordian Mages which can work with a few different masters and The Captain, who can be a little pricey but brings a lot of pushes to to crews that need them.

If you are looking for a crew box mostly to add options for your other masters then Ironsides is probably the better choice. If you're looking for another master tocput in the rotation then pick whichever one you think looks like more fun.

[spooky_squirrel]

1 hour ago, WWHSD said:

The other thing to consider with Mei Feng is that there's not much in her box that you'll use in other Arcanist crews. Kang is awesome but he isn't dual faction. The Rail Workers can do a decent job but there's a lot of other 4/5 point melee minions that Arcanists have access to.

Normally, I'd argue that Rail Workers will get plenty of use with Colette and Ramos due to what they can do, but with OP's starting crew (Rasputina), there's several more stops on the way before Mei Feng's box will do more than give you Mei Feng and a serious brawling crew.

For next Masters to consider, I'd say look at Ramos or Colette. Raspy gives you a controller (Ice Pillars and zone denial through threats) that can blast things, but she doesn't do so well with mobility-oriented Strat/Scheme pools. Ice Dancers provide a fix for that, with their nearly over-the-top mobility when compared to the other Frozen Heart models.

For add-on boxes, Ice Dancers fix many of Raspy's weaknesses and still play to her strengths. Blessed of December (Luther the Pascha Hare in my case) also helps deal with scheme runners that are avoiding the Cursing of December.

For more general use, Arcane Effigy does a lot of work for a 4 stone minion. You'll have reasons for it with every master, but maybe not every opponent.
The Mechanical Rider is bonkers good. She can help fill mobility weaknesses in the rest of your crew by being all over the place dropping scheme markers as a trigger and summoning in helpful constructs like Steam Arachnids (to reduce opposing models' Df) and Ice Gamin (to Bite of Winter for your front line Frozen Heart models or be Mirror nodes). She has other summon options, like Metal Gamin and Fire Gamin, which can also be helpful depending on what you need.
Then for the full paradox, the Arcane Emissary brings some more tools to the table, and has a different upgrade for each master, allowing you a lot of flexibility with a potent beater.

 

 

[Treehouse]

For now, and for your budget, your buy-list is fine. Although it would be nice if you could split the generalist upgrade deck with someone. 

And I would also say for a budget buy list, blessed and ice dancers fall in similar roles, so that if it was my list, I'd ditch the blessed and the rulebook (its a couple of stories, I think....4?) and use that money to get another madter's box for flexibility. 

 

On ironsides vs mei. I have them both and like them both. But i play mei much more often. Instead of captain, i often run angelica. And i only run mages with toni, though they are cool to buff you henchmen  

 

As you mentioned tt. Mei is a sweet trap to start tt, and i will give in someday :-D.

 

When playing mei i often use:

willie, emissary, union miner (a single one), large arachnid (similar role as rail worker), angelica, raptors, sparks

[dancater]

I'll add my final 10 cents.

Shenlong, no idea he's a TT master I have never played or faced.

Mei is great fun, so fast, slippery and her box is solid.  Although as pointed out Kang and Rail Workers while good won't get massive play time with other Arcanist crews (Kang not at all as he's straight TT) and Mei while fun and pretty flexible can be fragile which is a problem with a aggressive and fast model, basically play her well and she is rewarding but you'll rarely get more than one mistake.

Irons box is very solid the Ox Mages are great (in threes since cuddle) and particularly solid in Irons and Sandeep crews.  The Captain while very expensive is a great left field model.  Better not to talk about Mouse however.  Irons herself is almost the opposite of Mei, slower, more deliberate and durable - much more forgiving crew, won't give you the raw crazy fun of Mei but you want reliable crew which fills the role then Irons is your lady.

Doubt you'll be disappointed either box.

Your planed purchases, look solid as a rock, would not change anything and honestly with the exception of in Irons crew with hand picked men the Dec Acolytes beat out Gunsmiths nearly every time better for points, more flexible - even in Irons crew its a 55:45 toss up, Acolytes are that good.

I will also say that Raspy in my experience is a reliable ground and pound master and crew, they play very different to Irons but are nevertheless still a solid predictable crew, what they do is obvious but they do it well.  So maybe consider Mei because some days its just fun to play fast, loose and close to the burning edge.

As for Colette who some have mentioned here, well.... she is my favorite master and the reason I play Malifaux, so I will not comment on the grounds of bias.  But honestly no collection is complete with out a little sparkle, style and fashion and a whole lot of production to distract.

Luck mate, I think you've had some solid advice, you've listened well and hopefully you love the game as much as all of us sad tragics.

   

[Stur]

Alright! @retnab Thanks for calming me down around Ironsides haha! And thanks to everyone in here for all the advice, really helped me out to make my mind.

I am going to go for the second list I posted, with the Mech rider instead of Gunsmiths and Essence. And I will take Ironsides since I am not afraid of that she is just flat out horrible anymore :D.

@dancater Unfortunately the Colette box does not do much for me aesthetically, playstyle might be awesome though but thats for another time waaaay down the line. With that said I will need to get the box eventually because Cassandra is just too damn sparkling, Chick with a big ass sword  Also helps that from what I have read she plays well with others!

The only thing left for me to brood over now is whether or not I should take the rulebook for fluff or maybe add Mei feng. But that is much more of a personal decision hehe.

Again really appreciate the help, and look forward to getting more into the game and discussing/talk more about it!