farmoar Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Hello Outcasts. There is a high likelihood that I will be getting Tara's crew box (either one of the special editions or the regular one), and I have seen snippets of people talking about a Void Wretch spam list. I was wondering if anyone has actually played this before and has tips/tricks, or if it is merely all theoryfaux at this point. Thank you for your help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathysphere Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I've always found that spamming any model, unless you're summoning them ala Hamelin and Ramos, is bad. You can't cover all your bases in a game with one card worth of abilities, no matter how many you have. Void wretches in particular are interesting for sure, but they're melee only, not all that tough, and don't hit very hard. Sure, you can pump their def up, but even at Def 7 it only takes 2 hits from a 3/X/X damage track to drop them even after incorporeal. They make good scheme runners and have great synergy with Tara, but I can't think of a reason I'd ever hire more than 2. Taking a crew full of low-cost models can work depending on schemes, strats, and masters, but 6-8 of the same model won't get you as far as diversifying will. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Torsul said: I would rate the wretch spam as the worst Malifaux List I've ever heard of ... Guild guard spam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadhna Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I think I heard about Wretch spam on the Max Value podcast. Basically, it utilizes six Wretches, Malifaux Child, Scion and Nothing Beast to heavily outactivate the opponent and then do schemes like crazy while denying important ones. There's also a Resser version with double Belles instead of the Beast, I think. While seemingly suboptimal, it's something that can shine in the right scheme pool (think Tail'Em and accusation). The amount of Slow this crew generates is preposterous, not to mention generally favouring a low card hand. If you know what you're doing, this crew will wreck face. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Don't forget there's an upgrade so any wretch in LOS of the nothing beast does a duel to bury foes that kill them. So it can certainly do some hand hate or discourage the enemy killing your models, especially since anything you DO bury will be murdered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXXXVIII Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Well, Wretches are melee only but once you get something buried every wretch on the board can spam theyr melee on the buried model. thats kind of neat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I'm intrigued by this idea. I'm not sure how 9-10 models heavily outactivate your opponent? Inmy experience a lot of lists atart around 9-10 activations and summoners only grow from there. Did the wretches get auto-reactivate or something in the errata? I thought they just got a new characteristic to be hireable out of faction. Sounds interesting nonetheless, I would love to see the ultimate counter pick when this list faces a wind gamin spawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaphoricDragn Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 38 minutes ago, Ludvig said: I'm intrigued. How does 9-10 models heavily outativate your opponent? I play guild, one of the factions with the least models on the table and I usually start with 8-10 activations. Did the wretches get auto-reactivate or something in the errata? I thought they just got a new characteristic to be hireable out of faction. Sounds interesting, I would love to see the ultimate counter pick when this list faces a wind gamin spawn i find 7-8 to be the average 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrrael Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 50 SS Outcasts Crew Tara + 5 Pool - Dead of Winter (1) - Knowledge of Eternity (2) Malifaux Child (2) The Nothing Beast (10) - Void Shield (0) - Oath Keeper (1) Scion of the Void (8) - Oath Keeper (1) Void Wretch (4) Void Wretch (4) Void Wretch (4) Void Wretch (4) Void Wretch (4) Void Wretch (4) (exported from CrewFaux) This is the list from the max value podcast. It works a lot better then some here are giving it credit. I personally think this is the only list that runs 2+ of a generic model that actually has competitive play and it's pretty cool to look at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Azrrael said: It works a lot better then some here are giving it credit. I personally think this is the only list that runs 2+ of a generic model that actually has competitive play and it's pretty cool to look at. You've not seen the 9 belle levi list at work? Or the 9 stalker Sonnia list? I've never seen anything about the wretch list, but on paper it doesn't look all that scary. That suggests to me there is a trick to playing it, which I normally find means it relies on "gotcha". Will be interested to hear more about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmoar Posted April 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Adran said: I've never seen anything about the wretch list, but on paper it doesn't look all that scary. That suggests to me there is a trick to playing it, which I normally find means it relies on "gotcha". Will be interested to hear more about it. This^ I am hoping another Tara player can shed some light on this 8 hours ago, Azrrael said: 50 SS Outcasts Crew Tara + 5 Pool - Dead of Winter (1) - Knowledge of Eternity (2) Malifaux Child (2) The Nothing Beast (10) - Void Shield (0) - Oath Keeper (1) Scion of the Void (8) - Oath Keeper (1) Void Wretch (4) Void Wretch (4) Void Wretch (4) Void Wretch (4) Void Wretch (4) Void Wretch (4) (exported from CrewFaux) This is the list from the max value podcast. It works a lot better then some here are giving it credit. I personally think this is the only list that runs 2+ of a generic model that actually has competitive play and it's pretty cool to look at. Thank you Azrrael. I had seen something similar that had a Death Marshall in there to drop both The Nothing Beast and Scion of the Void onto something at the end of your turn, unburying both of them (hopefully after they are out of activations, and you can use them back-to-back and then win the next initiative). Not sure if it would be worth taking out 1 Void Wretch and the Malifaux Child (not sure what he adds to this/don't have the card in front of me right now) to add in a Death Marshall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 The main concept of the list is AP control. You have the ability to throw out an incredible amount of slow with this crew and cripple your opponents AP. Voids will die, but in general it's going to take a lot of AP to get through them because of the incorpeal and the shear amount of models/wounds you have in this crew. The recent change to Dead of Winter obviously makes it even better as the voids get even harder to kill. I'd say on average turns I end up having double the amount of AP my opponent has between the model count, reactivate on Tara, and slow. In the right pool it's not hard to win a game when you have twice the AP available to you. That said this is NOT an all comers crew. You aren't going to do very well in reckoning, turf war, or similar with this. It does however dominate in interference, headhunter, stake a claim, squatters rights. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbonn Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Min Value 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmoar Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Thank you to the people who gave their thoughts/provided examples, and not just say the idea was trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Reading the list above i wonder if there is a way to fit the Hodgepodge emissary into it. With the generic conflux he could give + flips to minions and hand out companion to scion of the void so that after something gives fast to an enemy she can immediately activate and steal it for bonus AP. Of course if you bury her i guess tara can activate at the end of the turn, hand out fast to several enemies and then just unbury scion so they can do that anyway... Maybe the idea isn't the only way to do it but i think its worth posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Not a bad idea, but I think in practice all it would do is create a giant target for your enemy. One of the nice things about this list is the lack of obvious targets for your opponent to go after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 @Travis Thanks for actually explaining the play style! Ap is a game winner for sure in a lot of strategies. Does it have a good way to remove really tanky enemy models? Buries I guess? I would still fear a few bad matchups like Rasputina and Sonnia in particular and most ca heavy lists. Does it generate it's own heads in headhunter if the enemy does the classic belle thing and camp somewhere safe and pull in a single wretch at a time after getting NB turn one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 Depends on what kind of tanky models. Low df models with armor? Yeah it's great vs. those because you can just hit it a billion times. High df models are harder, but at the end of the day df7 vs. ml4 only goes so far when you can put 10 attacks on it. That said, the ideal way to deal with those things is just to make sure that's slow every time it activates (which is very easy to do between Tara and the wretches). This will sound counter-intuitive at first, but Raspy/Sonnia are actually two of the best match ups for this list. It seems bad because of the casts, but they only have so much AP and it takes a severe damage from either of them to kill 1 void wretch. You just need to keep yourself spread out and use the Scion effectively. Ideally you get him into Raspy/Sonnia to tie them up and prevent them from being able to blast. He can get there safely because if they ever target him you can bury to avoid the attack and make them waste AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSeeker Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 @Travis Humm, seems reasonable. How do You deal with the Scion-unbury? Is Tara’s reactivate her only way to get unburied? Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Any model can use the Scion's (0) ability to unbury it at the cost of a couple of wounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXXXVIII Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 Yes, but unburying the scion through the (0) of the scion is going to cost it 2 wounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terwox Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 On 4/21/2017 at 8:03 AM, farmoar said: This^ I am hoping another Tara player can shed some light on this Thank you Azrrael. I had seen something similar that had a Death Marshall in there to drop both The Nothing Beast and Scion of the Void onto something at the end of your turn, unburying both of them (hopefully after they are out of activations, and you can use them back-to-back and then win the next initiative). Not sure if it would be worth taking out 1 Void Wretch and the Malifaux Child (not sure what he adds to this/don't have the card in front of me right now) to add in a Death Marshall. I haven't tried it, but the kid can give Tara fast for a wound. You need a 10, but if you focus, you flip three cards to try -- ~67% on a deck w/ replacement. Mainly just activation control, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keget Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 I have used the kid before. Use it turn 1 to fast/bury Beast. Just as you said, focus and hope 1 of 3 cards 10 plus. If so extra action for Tara, if not she gets to try. Also have had kid bury/slow opponents scheme runners. Late turn it has worked...and always some extra activations. I use it. Thanks Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 On 2017-04-26 at 5:49 PM, Travis said: Depends on what kind of tanky models. Low df models with armor? Yeah it's great vs. those because you can just hit it a billion times. High df models are harder, but at the end of the day df7 vs. ml4 only goes so far when you can put 10 attacks on it. That said, the ideal way to deal with those things is just to make sure that's slow every time it activates (which is very easy to do between Tara and the wretches). This will sound counter-intuitive at first, but Raspy/Sonnia are actually two of the best match ups for this list. It seems bad because of the casts, but they only have so much AP and it takes a severe damage from either of them to kill 1 void wretch. You just need to keep yourself spread out and use the Scion effectively. Ideally you get him into Raspy/Sonnia to tie them up and prevent them from being able to blast. He can get there safely because if they ever target him you can bury to avoid the attack and make them waste AP. Considering both Raspy and Sonnia usually include a lot of friendly pushes to prevent being locked down and their main attacks cause passive damage with the blasts I'm not sure the scion is that safe. You can't bury when Sonnia targets a wretch 8 inches away from you and place blasts all the way to you or when Raspy targets her gamin pal in btb and does damage and/or paralyzes your scion. I'm sure it's possible to unbury it in a clever position and engage them but it is far from a sure thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted May 6, 2017 Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 I never said it was easy, just that it had a high pay off But yes, you don't want to Scion to get blasted on to, so you have to be careful of that. He's still a henchman though so it he can stone off some of her blast damage. The biggest advantage you have is activation control. Once you get him in position you can just out activate them and wait until they push Sonnia/Raspy away and then follow them. Use his other (0) to disengage since it won't let them strike him. I usually use either a void wretch or Tara to unbury the scion. The issue with tara doing it is she has to be unengaged, so you are risking it a bit if someone can engage her and you can't get out, but the advantage is if the Scion hadn't activated you are able to unbury him and use Pull the Void again during her second activation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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