wizuriel Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 So in the original set of schemes there were a lot that rewarded you if you declared them (either made them easier, or only way to get full points). I kind of felt it was a nice risk vs reward mechanic. Kind of sad though that the latest set of gaining ground schemes don't even give you that choice anymore. All of them can't be revealed at the start. Did anyone else like that mechanic and or miss it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Gaining Grounds 2016 didn't let you reveal any, so this is nothing new for GG17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted December 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 8 minutes ago, Aaron said: Gaining Grounds 2016 didn't let you reveal any, so this is nothing new for GG17. yeah, just a feature I miss from the original Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 The revealing had so high a reward most of the time there wasn't even really a choice, and because most schemes basically had to be revealed you pretty much knew which schemes your opponent had even if he didn't reveal any. Don't really miss the original schemes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 To the OP's point, I'd love to have revealing back in if we could make it nice and balanced. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 22 minutes ago, Aaron said: To the OP's point, I'd love to have revealing back in if we could make it nice and balanced. So in a podcast you talked about maybe giving some kind of non-VP reward for revealing, could you share any example of what that might be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Extra stones in your cache. Bonus to initiative. Access to a special upgrade. I dunno, I had thoughts but it wasn't working out for playtesters. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky_squirrel Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 I imagine that there ends up being some weird interactions. Like if there's a scheme that involves keeping someone alive until the end of the game (Undercover Entourage-based) with a bonus of the model getting Regen +1 for revealing the scheme at the start of the game, things that are Reckless would lose the risks of reckless without having to compensate for it in another way (i.e. The Firestarter with Warding Runes staying within 10" and LOS of the Doom Ward bearer, Fingers stopping to take a swig every other turn), and things that are Hard to Kill would get dialed up a notch with less reliance on support (Joss, for instance). I don't know what else playtesters would find in testing with that kind of risk/reward, but those are a couple of interactions I would play with to see what they do and how they make both my opponent and I feel about the scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 One of the issues is that once you've got enough to really score a scheme it starts to become fairly obvious. Even sometimes schemes that don't require things like markers can be somewhat easy to work out once you've had a few turns to eliminate schemes that it isn't, and the advantage of knowing from the beginning of the game isn't as big as it could be. Perhaps if you revealed schemes before making your crew so your opponent has a discrete and unique advantage rather than a nebulous advantage that becomes diminished as the game goes on and certain schemes become less likely. Of course it would be a bigger disadvantage and would probably need to be balanced out by larger benefits than extra VPs. I like the idea of for example Regen on your model you have to keep alive. It's interesting to think about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 The really big problem with revealing schemes was that the ones you didn't always reveal where so few that if you didn't reveal a scheme you had still basically revealed that you had the only scheme in the poom that wasn't revealed at the start of the game. I don't miss the revealing part since I love that you could bluff between detonate the charges and convict labor and similsr combinations. The fact that some schemes required a reveal for full points and most were almost always worth revealing really devalued the schemes that relied on not being revealed. If revealing became a thing again I would like it to be only a few numerical schemes so that the majority of the pool was always non--revealed and every scheme would need to be able to score 3vp unrevealed (unless some really interesting thing where you alwayd have to reveal something that is easily prevented like you need LoS to the cheapest enemy model at the end of a turn to score 1vp). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain_Konrad Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 It's nice to have a guessing game for the first 2 or 3 turns. Even some "wow, I didn't think you'd take that" moments. Locally at least. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Kaptain_Konrad said: It's nice to have a guessing game for the first 2 or 3 turns. Even some "wow, I didn't think you'd take that" moments. Locally at least. Even better if there's a couple of similar, viable end of game reveals in the pool. Going into turns 4-5 with an unknown or two keeps it tense even if things seem to be going my way. Seems there's still a few of those in GG2017, which is nice. ... I miss Take Prisoner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecapopriest Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 On 12/29/2016 at 0:29 PM, Aaron said: Extra stones in your cache. Bonus to initiative. Access to a special upgrade. I dunno, I had thoughts but it wasn't working out for playtesters. I really like this idea, maybe there is a way to make it contingent on scoring a point on the revealed scheme before getting an advantage. Such as if you score a point on any turn with a scheme that you revealed at the beginning of the game, you immediately draw a card or gain a positive twist to initiative on the next turn. Just spit balling, but I think it would be a really intriguing element to put in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordZombie Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 I really enjoy the hidden schemes as it add more mystery and bluffing to the game. I feel it gives a less experience player a chance to score some VP versus a veteran player. If a veteran player knows the schemes, they are going to know how to stop it pretty easy. At least the bluffing part of the hidden gives the less experience player a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordZombie Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 On 12/29/2016 at 1:29 PM, Aaron said: Extra stones in your cache. Bonus to initiative. Access to a special upgrade. I dunno, I had thoughts but it wasn't working out for playtesters. I would love this idea, but the reason you can't do stuff like this is tournaments. A bonus like that would be viewed as too fun or along the lines of a story encounters and we all know that has no place in Masters events and the like. I would love to see something like a new set of schemes for the rules that are not part of the Gaining Grounds. Maybe for Book 5, since we are sure to see a book 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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