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Kirby

How to Nellie?

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Hello!  I've recently jumped into the pool of Guild.  Plenty of experience in Outcasts and half of Neverborn, but the Wild Ones and Nellie's crews look cool so I picked them up.  Looking at Nellie and her friends, though, I'm at a loss.  It seems she doesn't do very much directly, and while she and her buddies and ruin a single target's day via layered conditions/auras/etc. that doesn't really seem to stop the rest of the opponent's crew.  That said, I hear a lot about how Nellie is borderline abusive to play against.  As a Pandora and pre-errata Leveticus player I'm not a stranger to that, but I'm not sure how Nellie falls into that category.

So how does one Nellie successfully?  Are there particular models she gets along with best?  What upgrades does she prefer?  It seems like she's built to take Mercenaries; which does she like and why?

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2 hours ago, Kirby said:

 

So how does one Nellie successfully?  Are there particular models she gets along with best?  What upgrades does she prefer?  It seems like she's built to take Mercenaries; which does she like and why?

  1. Nellie is a force multiplier for Guild beaters. She can give fast to models and give them extra attacks by using her Propaganda Attack action.
  2. I've found Francisco, Phiona Gage, and Ryle are the best with her. Typically she likes Henchmen and Austringers.
  3. Depends on her build, but Delegation is what I use a lot of.
  4. Mercenaries isn't a trap, but its just one of the many builds you can take with her. But why take a Trapper when you can take an Austringer.

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Propaganda and delegation are the heart of my nellie play, but I've gotten use out of scathing review and misleading headlines too.   I think I've only lost her once,  but I haven't played against viks yet.

As Far as mercs go,  I love the performer, envy, lust,  and strongarm suit.   I don't own any others,  but the trapper would be interesting too.

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Once she's out for retail I want to try Freikorps Nellie with Hannah, two Trappers and the Strongarm. Should be fun. 

Just the fact you can give a Peacekeeper and Frank Fast each turn without even trying is amazing, and something the Guild has sorely been lacking. She's going to be nuts. 

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Depends on what you're building towards.

I prefer to play her in a melee focused kill team (Propaganda + Angry Mob) with Promises:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XUMyag4gRejtK2AlxGiIc1_XcNRYT9WDeYNI27jp34/edit#gid=0

Peacekeeper, Phiona, Frank,Strongarm Suit + your Promises bearer (Queeg/Sidir) are all top tier choices. Hannah would be compelling if Make A New Entry could declare triggers (more Propaganda + Angry Mob spam), though she still has some nice choices between Phiona and Nellie (and getting to draw another card each turn is always sweet).

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I've played an awful lot of games with Nellie recently. Having done so, I'm convinced that Delegation is a trap. Whilst it's extremely tempting to continuously give extra AP to the likes of Phiona and Ryle, and in certain situations it's absolutely the right play (to score schemes for example), for the most part you're missing out on Nellie's tricks.

Propaganda is her bread and butter. You need a decent stack of Evidence but that's not hard to get. Printing Press hands out 1, you discard a card for 2 at the start of her activation, and if you're really keen you can use a Watcher and her defensive trigger to apply 2 more.

I'll use an example from a tournament game this weekend, against Viks oddly enough. Nellie was my last activation turn 1, and had Evidence 4 as described above. Vik of Ashes was in position to charge next turn. Nellie Propaganda'd 3 times - damage and Push, damage and Push and swing from Phiona Gage who was now in range and free swing from It's Me You're Fighting, damage and swing from Phiona. All those swings from Phiona were on positives to attack and damage. Vik of Ashes dead.

Turn 2, Vik of Blood charges Nellie. I let the first swing through and took the defensive trigger for Evidence, cheating in Weak damage (Revisionist History). The Vik swings again, I cheat in Red Joker for defence to make her miss, then use the Run from the Truth ability to push the Vik 4" away. Right into the path of an oncoming Ryle who uses Debt to the Guild and pancakes her.

That in a nutshell is what Nellie can do. She can take a model that thinks it's safe and bring it into the firing line for some pickaxe love from Phiona. If you've got scheme markers out and someone throws a model at you, Hot Off the Presses is a brilliant counter to Frame for Murder. Opponent got the activation edge? Misleading Headlines and throw away rubbish cards to even the score.

She has so many tricks and abilities to stop your opponent that if you need to play a control or denial game, Nellie is actually one of the best Masters in the game for it now. And I'm so pleased to have her in our toolbox!

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I agree that she is going to be one of the top draw masters in the game - and that she also needs some unlocking to get things right too.

Guild is going to get a boost from having her in the lineup

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3 hours ago, PanzerHarris said:

I've played an awful lot of games with Nellie recently. Having done so, I'm convinced that Delegation is a trap. Whilst it's extremely tempting to continuously give extra AP to the likes of Phiona and Ryle, and in certain situations it's absolutely the right play (to score schemes for example), for the most part you're missing out on Nellie's tricks.

I largely agree; it's all about Angry Mob and pushes that help enable that trigger. Situationally though (as you've noted) having access to Fast + heal is very nice, especially with Htk models like Phiona/Franc and Promises Queeg on their last legs, or when you need that extra bit of move/interact to complete a scheme/get into position.

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Looking forward to getting her soon, so far I think most has been said but I think it's very important to see her as one of those support casters that indirectly also adds push controls to the game.
Which is something I really like because while we have seen it in other factions the Guild was rather devoid of that. 

Nellie brings Printing Press 
First I think it's a given that when you thake her you also add the Printing Press because an additional card plus Chain Activation plus Evidence is all Nellie really needs anyway. On top of that the Totem has a great Wk and Cg so really becomes a nice road block during the later stages of the game with it's 40 mm base. At that point it will certainly be destroyed but as long as Nellie is around you could be capable of making a great comeback.

Nellie
Propaganda and triggers is where I would build her list around, dealing early with Henchmen and Enforcers and maby sometimes even Masters, Scathing Review and Hot Off The Presses seem excellent tools to deal with the eventual Minions, Peons etc. 1/3/4 damage still can be decent enough but I do think that expected swarms, armour or incorporeal builds are still better dealth with by Sonnia and Perdita. What certainly does help is that Nellie by herself is much more survivable as these other two so with Francisco I believe Nellie can certainly 'tank' due to Revisionist History. 

Upgrades
Certainly a fan of Guild Funds, less so for the whole Guild Funds shebang but much more for the Df/Wp trigger and Journalistic Spin. I'd say it's a must have, Evidence matters. 
- Embedded is also very nice, not perse needed in my mind but if you do have the models for it and want to persue a 'real' control plan or 'real' assassination plan it leaves room for a ton of crew building flexability and I can immagne that at the higher levels this is a massive bonus for Nellie to have. Her crews become seriously unpredictable as soon as this upgrade is added. If you allready had the intention of adding two Mercs, just do so :).
- Misleading Headlines seems like another must have for me if you continue to stay pretty much Guild heavy, otherwise it becomes more optional.  I'm not terribly excited for Misinformation but Incite is an incredible control tool for 1 SS. The fact that it's Rg 12 where usually Nellie works with Rg 10 tools also helps her out a lot to continue to put pressure onto a saver distance.
- Delegation for me personally is the less interesting option. Fast is great, that's certain BUT the real question for me is how much it's needed because of how fantastic Propaganda works. Both are (1) Actions and I think Propaganda effectively does much more as Delegation does. In general I believe Slow, Pushes and 'free' Melee attacks on the target are better as Fast on one of our own. By large because Fast forces you to thake the right choice and Slow, Pushes and free attacks punish mistakes by your opponent much harder. 
- Several other allround Upgrades work well for her aswell, such as Expert Sleuth or others... I wouldn't personally go for Curfew because I feel that's amazing with Sonnia into swarms. 

Sum up: Wouldn't leave Nellie without Guild Funds and Misleading Headlines. If you think you need a heavier force than the Guild can provide Embedded is the perfect solution. Delegation doesn't perse feel like a trap but doesn't interact as well with Evidence as Propaganda does.

Crew builds
Nellie can be really difficult to kill in melee with a single model alone. Attempts who try to go this route usually should fail into Nellie because of Revisionist Histroy, Run from the Truth and On the Record. Having said that I would be less inclined to play her into known swarm crews. Both Neverborn and Ressurectionists seem difficult to handle with Nellie but otherwise you should still have a wonderful advantage into most other crews with crew sizes that usally don't expand during the game and rely on a big beater or two. Who simply said are the most effected.

The Printing Press is a staple for her. Free Evidence, free card and Ht 2 40 mm models for 3 Cost are a steal. It supports and will act as a body shield later during your game if that's required of it. Wk 6 is just excellent and so is Cg 7.

Francisco remains a Guild staple due to his offensive and defensive capabilities for his cost. As Nellie is also mostly relying on Rg 10/12 Actions I would certainly include him in competative builds (most of the time if not all the time). Wade In and Hermanos plus what Nellie does with Propaganda allows you to strike at harder targets where Nellie usually by herself wouldn't make a massive difference.

Austringers are always a great choice, though in this case I'd don't consider them an auto-include because of what Propaganda does. I honestly believe the points spend on Scheme runners or regulars such as the Death Marshal might be better spend here. Nellie in my eyes has optimal synergy with melee beaters. 

Phiona is extremely neat and likely the next Guild staple after Francisco. Because of that she's also always really good with Nellie but in general I believe Nellie's box is totally worth it because of Nellie, the totem and Phiona. I see no reason to not include both Frank and Phiona in almost every Nellie list. Great deals for great beaters with a defensive reset. 

Allison Dade is a great design and fits Nellie's theme but I see no direct reason to include her with Nellie. I believe we'll eventually recieve 'a real' Guardsman Master (perhaps the new Governor) and at that moment she'll have a great functionality. Because I like One More Question a lot but currently am not a fan of a lot of the Guardsman. Which can totally change if we somehow can summon them...

Field Reporters are great Scheme runners for Guild's standards. I think they are great additions to crews when your working with scheme marker heavy games. Which are not Guild's specialty but certainly make the Nellie box even better to buy. Just having them will always matter. One or two are a geat choice for a lot of our Masters because a lot of our Masters actively search out and demand Melee attention.

Papabox combinations in my opinion are not required.

Brutal Effigy remains a great choice but is also not really required for Nellie specifically. 

Conclusion
Get that Nellie box and don't let go of her Totem, Frank and Phiona. With this as your core you should be able to handle most non-swarm games. The Nellie box is amazing because it adds multiple pieces that are totally new and great for the Guild. I wouldn't perse put her amongst the top Masters (because swarms are great and Nellie doesn't seem to prefer that) but certainly amongst the top of the Guild because it's like we recieved a Frank-light AND wonderful Scheme runners ON TOP of a Control Master we didn't have before. 
 

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I think delegation and misleading headlines are a must have. 

  Delegation,  in my opinion,  most important asset is as a threat range extender and being able to leave your melee beater save behind blocking terrain and still be able to charge, Francisco can still teleport around and flurry. 

    Placing schemes and healing is the cherry  on to :)

It's the safest option too when you have a shitty hand and facing Wp 6 or more 

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I think that the prime reason to why I am not a huge fan of Delegation with Nellie comes from the fact that at that point she seems very closely trying to fill in shoes that fit McCabe better. But this largely comes from the believe that Fast is good but Slow on oppossing targets in combination with On the Record is even better. You do hinge a lot on those Df Duels to be failed but such is the power of Frank.

From my perspective Nellie is a midrange control Master that can and should be played quite aggressively with the intention to lure in several oppossing Masters, Henchmen or Enforcers who will ideally attempt to kill Nellie and fail to do so because of Frank's buffs, Revisionist History and Run From The Truth!.

The longer (in my opinion) Nellie stays outside of Propaganda range the less you get out of her and the crew, other Guild Masters can preform that role much better in my opinion. By large because the pro to being a medium range control Master is that you actively set up situations where your opponent would also make a mistake if they'd ignore her. Something that's not true for the true melee heavy masters and true full ranged masters, who often by being ignored can't reach oppossing models the next turn with full AP. In short if I want Fast on my models I'd pick McCabe and if I want to stay out of melee for the mayority of the game I'd grab more towards Sonnia and/or Perdita. But the fact that she is on that level is great offcourse.

I do agree with you Hidelfon that it's a saver route to play Nellie but I believe she doesn't reward that route as well as others do. After all, your looking for a story ;)
Propaganda and "Run from the Truth" in my opinion are Nellie's strongest assets but you do have to be in the thick of it to get the most out of it. However with some of our fantastic Henchmen we shouldn't be too afraid to go that route. 

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Guild Funds only really tempts me if I have the room for the Watcher combo (which I sadly often don't), using Sky Eye on Nellie in exchange for +2 Propaganda (and even then I've my doubts as to whether that's really worth 5 SS and an upgrade slot).

Misleading Headlines is core, Delegation, though situational, is too useful to pass up. Embedded seems pretty optional unless you're taking Mercs; situationally useful like Delegation, albeit less so. Have considered swapping Expert Sleuth in over Embedded; you get a free push without the set up of Lead (though this set up is often done by Brutal Effigy) and an Initiative bump when you need it most which is always useful, and potentially even game winning.

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The real use of delegation isn't to give out Fast - it's to heal models or get scheme markers out.  With H2K on Frank and Phiona it is often the best to heal them and give them fast rather than propaganda.

I play with both Frank and Phiona - and give them both Lead Lined Coat.  H2K, armour, decent Df and healing make them really hard to take down if you play them right.  You can also get Phone up to Df 9 with Frank.

Need a scheme marker to push Nellie?  Need one for Hot off the Presses?  Give one of your models fast at the same time.

A model about to die?  Heal it for 2 with Nellie and also give it an extra AP.

I really like Delegation in my lists.  No I don't use it every turn, but it gives you another excellent tactical option that will be the best option at least a few times a turn.

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3 minutes ago, Hidelfon said:

Led lined coat is so expensive ?

Without healing I think it is probably not worth it.  But since Nellie can heal a model with both Delegation and Guild Funds it is great.  Also makes it harder for models to kill Phi or Frank with their H2K as they're probably gonna have to spend an extra attack to get them down to H2K.

With Phiona/Frank and Nellie it is WAY better than in most other lists.  And remember frank can also heal himself.  With Nellie healing him, him healing himself, armour and H2K he is really hard to take down.

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Although I never thought of the watcher trick.

You could take a watcher instead, and then use it to get 2 soul stones extra a turn with Guild funds, which Frank and Phiona can blow on damage prevention.  That might be better.

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Likely, LLC is neat but a Frank without Wade In and Hermanos is not that amazing. As said I love Fast aswell but when Propaganda is in range it's almost always better and we have the defensive tools and healing elsewhere.

Thanking the risks is where I feel Nellie hands out the rewards. Stuff dies but making targets Slow is often an good option to make that difficult.

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On 11/1/2016 at 8:02 PM, Surrealistik said:

Depends on what you're building towards.

I prefer to play her in a melee focused kill team (Propaganda + Angry Mob) with Promises:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XUMyag4gRejtK2AlxGiIc1_XcNRYT9WDeYNI27jp34/edit#gid=0

Peacekeeper, Phiona, Frank,Strongarm Suit + your Promises bearer (Queeg/Sidir) are all top tier choices. Hannah would be compelling if Make A New Entry could declare triggers (more Propaganda + Angry Mob spam), though she still has some nice choices between Phiona and Nellie (and getting to draw another card each turn is always sweet).

Does promises give you a +ve flip to all Nellie's attacks? Because that is ridiculously good if so...

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1 hour ago, Manic Mouse said:

Does promises give you a +ve flip to all Nellie's attacks? Because that is ridiculously good if so...

Quote

Promises: Friendly models with at least one Upgrade attached within :aura 6 of this model gain :+fate to all Wp and Ml duels.

So, no.  Nellie's attacks are all Ca actions.

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1 hour ago, Hidelfon said:

And for Nellie's Incite ability is Wp6 vs wp so it gets a positive ☺

Sure is!  I forgot she had Pandora-style Incite.  Not quite as high of a cast, but that :+fate more than makes up for it. :D 

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On 11/2/2016 at 5:50 AM, PanzerHarris said:

and if you're really keen you can use a Watcher and her defensive trigger to apply 2 more.

Sigh, what if we're not so keen. Would you mind explaining the watcher trick?

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8 minutes ago, Thimblesage said:

Sigh, what if we're not so keen. Would you mind explaining the watcher trick?

If you take one of her upgrades (I forget which one), it gives Nellie a defensive trigger that adds +1 evidence.  So you attack her with the watcher, and choose not to relent (so she can declare a defensive trigger).  The watcher's damage track is 0/1/1 so it's not likely Nellie will take much damage.  But she gets +2 evidence.

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6 hours ago, skoatz said:

If you take one of her upgrades (I forget which one), it gives Nellie a defensive trigger that adds +1 evidence.  So you attack her with the watcher, and choose not to relent (so she can declare a defensive trigger).  The watcher's damage track is 0/1/1 so it's not likely Nellie will take much damage.  But she gets +2 evidence.

Absolutely, the Guild Funds upgrade is as mandatory as Upgrades get for Nellie. All the others are more debatable. 

While the trick is very nice, I will say that it's not mandatory to go that route at all but it's certainly benificial at times :D

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