clockworkspide Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 I admit I was kinda hoping the Specialist would get something. Scramble and I Pay Better help a lot, but I'm not sure that I wouldn't rather take Lazarus sans upgrade under most circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apes-ma Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 4 hours ago, Franchute said: Hans. +1 walk and a zero action to give focus. Sweet! I'm keen to try this out - Hans is such a rad model, but so underwhelming compared to the trapper. Is it a 0ss upgrade? It'll be a shame to not be able to use scout the field with him, but at least now he might actually be useable once in a while! Oh, except Reference the Field guide is a zero as well... hmmmm I still think this is definitely intersting since it allows him to move to get a bead on something and then shoot the full 36 inches 5 times in a game, or to be able to shoot upgrades off at 36 inches with the benefits of focus - although I am still not sure that's enough for 8SS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 3 hours ago, clockworkspide said: I admit I was kinda hoping the Specialist would get something. Scramble and I Pay Better help a lot, but I'm not sure that I wouldn't rather take Lazarus sans upgrade under most circumstances. Aye, Specialist should get an upgrade rather than Hans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacks85 Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 2 hours ago, daniello_s said: Aye, Specialist should get an upgrade rather than Hans. Both of them, I think. Hans is definitively overpriced! Yeah, we have to agree to agree on this But with a 0 Focus, being able to shoot twice in a turn with I Pay better? It might be cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Blacks85 said: Both of them, I think. Hans is definitively overpriced! Yeah, we have to agree to agree on this But with a 0 Focus, being able to shoot twice in a turn with I Pay better? It might be cool I don't like this new (0) action because it is competing with his most important action - Reference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 I'm thinking he might do well in a crew that is alreDy smashing your hand. With a couple of the CR7 they might. Or be able to attack period while he is in there. I think it might be counter synergistic to Ligeia as they can't use their cards and will end up saving them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 On 10/08/2016 at 9:08 AM, Manxfaux said: Hmm, could make for a really disruptive Tara Bomb with Fearful Whispers added too.... I was already doing this before the upgrade! Now he will survive after it! Tara can give all those models fast which makes them have trouble with his terror (if they are living, -3 WP either way) and will mean they are easy to get into Karina's "activating with fast is bad for you" aura. Pride would be pretty useful in this area too since i think he can target WP and having Nothing Beast be dropped on Turn 2 (or just charging him up, not like terrain will be in the way) could be horrifying thanks to that -3wp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlackerLM Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 If Montressor was not randomized for in shooting, like the Guilty, would have helped. Or a healing trigger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrazyIvan Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 0 SS upgrades make me cry, even if they are pretty ok for the models involved. I wish they would just errata these guys rather than band aid them. I feel like all it does is limit options (which is probably the opposite of what was intended). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacks85 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 6 hours ago, KrazyIvan said: 0 SS upgrades make me cry, even if they are pretty ok for the models involved. I wish they would just errata these guys rather than band aid them. I feel like all it does is limit options (which is probably the opposite of what was intended). they could have just written "This doesn't count toward the number of upgrades" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 This makes it less likely there will be some sort of ridiculous unforeseen interaction when you start piling upgrades on these models. On top of that, there is no worrying if you're using the right stat card. It's a whole lot easier for several reasons. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoylentRobot Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 i prefer these free upgrades rather than errata cards, it saves having to get a replacement card for the model 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinJ Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I think the new Montressor upgrade does a lot I really don't understand why it's being looked down on? Jack Daw especially already targets your opponent's hand so forcing an opponent to discard is pretty useful. He has decent utility I think you will now at least occasionally see him. How about we play it and see how it goes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacks85 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 4 hours ago, SJW said: I think the new Montressor upgrade does a lot I really don't understand why it's being looked down on? Jack Daw especially already targets your opponent's hand so forcing an opponent to discard is pretty useful. He has decent utility I think you will now at least occasionally see him. How about we play it and see how it goes? For a simple reason, being in base contact with it is very hard. Even if you walk close to someone, he may walk and hit you or if you do your whisper to pull everyone to you...the models will touch each other stopping everyone after the first to get pulled into base contact. So, what it basically does, is possibly save him from 1 attack if opponent hasn't the card to hit you twice from base contact. Hard to wound is obviously the worst defensive ability of the game. Sometime, it also increase the odd to have a red joker on damage too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_C Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, Blacks85 said: Hard to wound is obviously the worst defensive ability of the game. Sometime, it also increase the odd to have a red joker on damage too Also increases the odds of the black joker, and makes it MUCH harder to cheat damage. Give me hard to wound over Bullet Proof any day. I think hard to wound is much better than people are giving it credit for. Also with this upgrade he's defensively pretty comparable to Madame Sybelle and no one complains about her survivability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 30 minutes ago, Mikey_C said: Also with this upgrade he's defensively pretty comparable to Madame Sybelle and no one complains about her survivability. She is Terrifying All and that makes huuuge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_C Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 27 minutes ago, daniello_s said: She is Terrifying All and that makes huuuge difference. Sure but then the second part of the upgrade IMO makes up for that. So still quite comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxfaux Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I think he's still pretty situational and below the power curve compared to other outcast picks at this level, but while I'm sure he won't be setting any tournaments alight, I'd be happy to try him out in casual games. If 'The Choking Death' was at the end of his activation he'd be better but it still means his opponents have to decide to chuck cards or waste activations moving away in order to hit him. I'd like to try out whispers a few times actually to see how it works in practice. I'm assuming the opponent choses the order and makes the pushes so if multiple models are affected they could potentially use some less important models to block the push into base contact when it comes round to a more important one. On the other hand, Monty is a big base and it doesn't say 'directly' into base contact, so I again assume that if it is at all possible to get into base contact then they must do it. Some careful positioning against a loosely balled crew could see a lot of models drawn in. Definitely a model you need to use as late in the turn as possible to drag in as many activated baddies as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I believe there was a ruling about stuff like Belles and Monty that means they have to take the shortest/most direct route sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeeblee Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I think simultaneous order is controlled by the player in control of the current activation, so if Montressor's player is in control, then he can pick who hits his base first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxfaux Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 39 minutes ago, zeeblee said: I think simultaneous order is controlled by the player in control of the current activation, so if Montressor's player is in control, then he can pick who hits his base first. Afraid not. The multiple models rule (pg 30) says the controller of the models making the duels chooses the order and resolves fully before moving on to the next. My presumption at that point is that they also get to make the push move themselves, which is in itself irrelevant if....... 58 minutes ago, Nukemouse said: I believe there was a ruling about stuff like Belles and Monty that means they have to take the shortest/most direct route sadly. I'd be interested to see that. Had a quick look but can't see where monty is involved. The wording of lure is reasonably different, but I wouldn't be surprised if Monty's pull had been ruled that way too tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrazyIvan Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 19 hours ago, Fog said: This makes it less likely there will be some sort of ridiculous unforeseen interaction when you start piling upgrades on these models. On top of that, there is no worrying if you're using the right stat card. It's a whole lot easier for several reasons. Easier? Maybe. Lazier? Maybe. They've done errata on plenty of models, though only to cuddle them insofar as I can tell. Maybe that's the thing - errata is cool for making models less useful, but not for improving them. Presumably these upgrades were play tested. Surely they could have play tested them as errata instead. It doesn't feel right to me that in order to get the model where it should be in order to be viable (Montressor, Nothing Beast, Karina...etc) they should limit it flexibility by preventing all other upgrades from being attached. It feels quick and dirty to me. That said, I don't want to derail the thread. If anyone wants to chat about this I'll start a fresh thread somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacks85 Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 15 hours ago, Mikey_C said: Also with this upgrade he's defensively pretty comparable to Madame Sybelle and no one complains about her survivability. You can't make a comparison between the worst henchman and probably the strongest one (or one of the, surely the best resser) Sybelsse has: 1 SS less cost Terrifying all Hard to wound built in, so free upgrades choice she deals damage! both ranged and melee she makes people insignificant she has +1WP, +1 WD, -1 HT and very strong upgrades... But the point is....Montresor game is to pull everyone to him...that is why he needs to be tough to survive....that is why the concept of model is awesome but is definitively underperforming in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoregard Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 montresor with fearful whispers and his new upgrade are gonna be pretty damn good for 10ss, imo. Sure hard to kill would have been better, but to state that somethings better doesnt automatically mean what we got is worthless. Considering that his 0 from whispers hits on like TN 15 against tormented models you can bet your arse thats gonna lead to a few models who cant attack unless they pitch a card... Considering that Jack is probably the most stressful master in faction for an opponents hand already, I like the way this shook out. I am less satisfied with Hans being the recipient for the other upgrade, as I am perfectly content running him with scout the field and I pay better... I too thought that the Specialist would be more fitting for a bit of a hot fix, as I only ever seen people using it when they are trying out the starter box for VS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 TN 14, with -2 for enemy tormented models, so effectively like TN 16. But he also has a -1 wp aura, so effectively TN 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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